ALCS Game #5 - Toronto at Seattle (Friday, 6:08)

[Randle McMurphy]

So Schneider says he wanted heart of Mariners order to ‘see different guys’ in 8th inning. Does this make any sense to anyone? This is not April or May, John. How the **** can you make a decision like that (even if it came from the FO) in what is arguably the biggest game of the season and in the **** playoffs!?! It's puzzling to say the least. You go with your best pitcher in that situation. There are no excuses. WTF were these clowns thinking??

If your “best pitcher” is a guy who has allowed the most HRs in baseball as a reliever this season (which indicates that maybe he is not in fact your best pitcher), I’d suggest the blame is on those who constructed the roster and not the manager who is forced to use flawed RPs with the season on the line rather than every other contender that has multiple elite arms.

[Randle McMurphy]

It’s beyond clear now (if it wasn’t even before this with his repeated usage in blowout wins in the postseason) that the Jays’ FO do not view Hoffman as a relief ace. Nor should they given his overall season and his awful command for months if anybody is being honest with themselves.

That again leads to the question then of why they didn’t look to add more to the bullpen while they had the chance. Yesterday’s game is exactly why you trade top prospects for a guy like Mason Miller or Duran when you’re a contender. The FO chose not to make that kind of move 2.5 months ago and paid the price for it in the biggest spot in the season.

[Hottie McShotty]

Let's not put all the blame on Little. We missed several chances in the game early. It was especially unlucky not to score any runs with the bases loaded and nobody out in that one half inning. That could have changed the game's outlook. It's unfortunate.

Look… I agree, we missee a lot of chances… that being said it’s baseball… I’ve already said this before and I kept saying it throughout the season is do you trust this bullpen to hold n to 1 run leads in the playoffs? Because at the end of he day these types of close games were bound to happen and you can’t rely on scoring 10 runs every game…

And this game exemplified my point to a t. We needed a better bullpen going into the post season… a championship team absolutely needs lock down guys. And we don’t have that. It’s a flaw in our team and it showed tonight.

And Atkins failed to address the bullpen during the trade deadline. The acquisitions he made didn't move the needle that much. Like you said Boogie! we needed lockdown guys with velocity. It's disappointing.

[Hottie McShotty]

So Schneider says he wanted heart of Mariners order to ‘see different guys’ in 8th inning. Does this make any sense to anyone? This is not April or May, John. How the **** can you make a decision like that (even if it came from the FO) in what is arguably the biggest game of the season and in the **** playoffs!?! It's puzzling to say the least. You go with your best pitcher in that situation. There are no excuses. WTF were these clowns thinking??

If your “best pitcher” is a guy who has allowed the most HRs in baseball as a reliever this season (which indicates that maybe he is not in fact your best pitcher), I’d suggest the blame is on those who constructed the roster and not the manager who is forced to use flawed RPs with the season on the line rather than every other contender that has multiple elite arms.

So are you saying Little was our best pitcher in that situation? We had better options late in that game, Randle. Come on now.

[Hottie McShotty]

It’s beyond clear now (if it wasn’t even before this with his repeated usage in blowout wins in the postseason) that the Jays’ FO do not view Hoffman as a relief ace. Nor should they given his overall season and his awful command for months if anybody is being honest with themselves.

That again leads to the question then of why they didn’t look to add more to the bullpen while they had the chance. Yesterday’s game is exactly why you trade top prospects for a guy like Mason Miller or Duran when you’re a contender. The FO chose not to make that kind of move 2.5 months ago and paid the price for it in the biggest spot in the season.

Did they have a chance? Perhaps the asking price for an elite bullpen arm was excessive. We'll probably never know for sure. In any case, it's frustrating no matter how you view it. Who knows if we'll get another opportunity like this if we lose this series and fail to reach the World Series.

[Mehar]

It’s beyond clear now (if it wasn’t even before this with his repeated usage in blowout wins in the postseason) that the Jays’ FO do not view Hoffman as a relief ace. Nor should they given his overall season and his awful command for months if anybody is being honest with themselves.

That again leads to the question then of why they didn’t look to add more to the bullpen while they had the chance. Yesterday’s game is exactly why you trade top prospects for a guy like Mason Miller or Duran when you’re a contender. The FO chose not to make that kind of move 2.5 months ago and paid the price for it in the biggest spot in the season.

Maybe the front office should have taken notes when the Braves, Orioles, and Phillies passed on signing Hoffman last off-season when his agent told teams he was looking at a multi-year deal to be a Closer. Phillies GM Dumbrowski said in Spring Training he did not want to commit that contract to Hoffman who he liked personally, since he has never been a full-time Closer previously. He was right in the end.

I was pleading last off-season for these idiots to sign Aroldis Chapman to an one year deal (since he was willing to sign for an one year deal with teams). Instead, this front office's solution was Hoffman (who never was a full-time Closer), a mediocre Sandlin, Lovelady, Barnes, and Garcia (who unfortunately got hurt). At the trade deadline, I was pleading for them to get Duran. Nimmala would have been the cost (who struggled a bit this year) as the centerpiece according to what I read. I would have done that for Duran.

You are correct to say that these idiots in the front office are responsible also. However, under no circumstance I am bringing Little in the 8th Inning. Looking how trash Little has been against Righties and his control issues, since end of August. It was a recipe for disaster. Fluharty would have been the Lefty I brought in. But, if these morons did not want to bring in Fluharty, I would have simply did what I did 24 hours previously. Hoffman in the 8th. Dominguez in 9th. If you lose, you lose. But no way Little should have came in.

[Randle McMurphy]

So Schneider says he wanted heart of Mariners order to ‘see different guys’ in 8th inning. Does this make any sense to anyone? This is not April or May, John. How the **** can you make a decision like that (even if it came from the FO) in what is arguably the biggest game of the season and in the **** playoffs!?! It's puzzling to say the least. You go with your best pitcher in that situation. There are no excuses. WTF were these clowns thinking??

If your “best pitcher” is a guy who has allowed the most HRs in baseball as a reliever this season (which indicates that maybe he is not in fact your best pitcher), I’d suggest the blame is on those who constructed the roster and not the manager who is forced to use flawed RPs with the season on the line rather than every other contender that has multiple elite arms.

So are you saying Little was our best pitcher in that situation? We had better options late in that game, Randle. Come on now.

No that isn’t what I’m saying at all. Little is not the choice for me there.

I’m saying the alternative that everybody keeps bringing up as the alleged obvious choice in that spot allowed the most HRs in baseball as a reliever and has been generally poor for months now. It’s like the entire fanbase is collectively choosing to ignore what Jeff Hoffman is because they got a bad outcome from someone else.

[Randle McMurphy]

It’s beyond clear now (if it wasn’t even before this with his repeated usage in blowout wins in the postseason) that the Jays’ FO do not view Hoffman as a relief ace. Nor should they given his overall season and his awful command for months if anybody is being honest with themselves.

That again leads to the question then of why they didn’t look to add more to the bullpen while they had the chance. Yesterday’s game is exactly why you trade top prospects for a guy like Mason Miller or Duran when you’re a contender. The FO chose not to make that kind of move 2.5 months ago and paid the price for it in the biggest spot in the season.

Did they have a chance? Perhaps the asking price for an elite bullpen arm was excessive. We'll probably never know for sure. In any case, it's frustrating no matter how you view it. Who knows if we'll get another opportunity like this if we lose this series and fail to reach the World Series.

Of course it was excessive. It’s a trade deadline market with other contenders.

But if you aren’t willing to take that risk, sometimes you’ll end up with outcomes like yesterday wishing that you had.

[Hottie McShotty]

Read on Twitter

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

Sid would have been tweeting the same thing had they used the most HR prone reliever in baseball against a 60 HR hitter in an 1 run game and a HR was given up in that situation too.

That much I guarantee you.

[Hottie McShotty]

Little had no business in this game in the 8th inning to face Raleigh and Polanco.

I genuinely feel like some of you are just arguing to be contrarian. We had to go out of the box and do something utterly moronic and it cost us dearly.

I don’t think another major league manager makes this decision.

This loss is on John Schneider. He didn’t put his team in the best position to win bringing in Little. Bottom line is he made the wrong call.

[Randle McMurphy]

Little had no business in this game in the 8th inning to face Raleigh and Polanco.

I genuinely feel like some of you are just arguing to be contrarian. We had to go out of the box and do something utterly moronic and it cost us dearly.

I don’t think another major league manager makes this decision.

This loss is on John Schneider. He didn’t put his team in the best position to win bringing in Little. Bottom line is he made the wrong call.

Everyone blaming their puppet for following through with their own game plan is exactly what the FO wants. Just like the Berrios situation although this one wasn’t anywhere near as bad.

[Randle McMurphy]

Just a reminder that Brendon Little led the Jays this year among relievers in WAR. He had the best strikeout rate and HR rate by a significant margin and was 2nd in FIP (behind only Fisher).

That doesn’t mean he was the right guy in that particular situation but when you have media bringing up that they should have used their “best guys” instead of Little, ask yourself who exactly meets that definition on this team and why?

[JCP11]

Read on Twitter

Sid would have been tweeting the same thing had they used the most HR prone reliever in baseball against a 60 HR hitter in an 1 run game and a HR was given up in that situation too.

That much I guarantee you.

No he wouldn't and you need to stop saying that. People would be mad at Hoffman but not Schneider. Can't get mad at the coach if he puts his closer in that situation. HR prone or not he was their guy this year with 33 saves. I was honestly expecting Hoffman to take the 8th myself. You had suggested Fisher which I wouldn't have been mad at but going with Hoffman there would have been the right thing to do. They don't have a ton of options either so you couldn't be mad at the coach for using his closer in a big spot like that even if he had failed.

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

Sid would have been tweeting the same thing had they used the most HR prone reliever in baseball against a 60 HR hitter in an 1 run game and a HR was given up in that situation too.

That much I guarantee you.

No he wouldn't and you need to stop saying that. People would be mad at Hoffman but not Schneider. Can't get mad at the coach if he puts his closer in that situation. HR prone or not he was their guy this year with 33 saves. I was honestly expecting Hoffman to take the 8th myself. You had suggested Fisher which I wouldn't have been mad at but going with Hoffman there would have been the right thing to do. They don't have a ton of options either so you couldn't be mad at the coach for using his closer in a big spot like that even if he had failed.

Yes, he absolutely would and everyone would have been livid all the same.

Jeff Hoffman has been bad for months now, allowed the most HRs in Major League Baseball for a reliever and was our 2nd worst reliever by WAR on the season (contributing negative WAR only better than the long since released Chad Green).

Just because everyone is now choosing to collectively ignore that reality (that Hoffman is, in fact, an ineffective reliever for the 2025 Jays) because it’s convenient for them now that another reliever blew the game doesn’t change the actual facts.

Going with their best in that spot would have required going to Fisher (who the Jays have refused to use in high leverage all season, so it was never going to happen). It definitely wasn’t Hoffman in any scenario and no amount of revisionist history will change that.

[Mehar]

Just a reminder that Brendon Little led the Jays this year among relievers in WAR. He had the best strikeout rate and HR rate by a significant margin and was 2nd in FIP (behind only Fisher).

That doesn’t mean he was the right guy in that particular situation but when you have media bringing up that they should have used their “best guys” instead of Little, ask yourself who exactly meets that definition on this team and why?

Look at his numbers in the second half of the year. Little was elite in the first couple of months, but fell off like the Titanic. His numbers over an entire year mean very "Little" with the way he was fallen off the past couple of months.

[Randle McMurphy]

Just a reminder that Brendon Little led the Jays this year among relievers in WAR. He had the best strikeout rate and HR rate by a significant margin and was 2nd in FIP (behind only Fisher).

That doesn’t mean he was the right guy in that particular situation but when you have media bringing up that they should have used their “best guys” instead of Little, ask yourself who exactly meets that definition on this team and why?

Look at his numbers in the second half of the year. Little was elite in the first couple of months, but fell off like the Titanic. His numbers over an entire year mean very "Little" with the way he was fallen off the past couple of months.

I don’t disagree (and that’s one of the reasons why he wouldn’t have been my choice) but if you’re looking for reasons why the FO game planned Little pitching in high leverage yesterday, it’s not exactly difficult to see why when you take a look at the overall numbers. He had the best season among a weak bullpen in a number of pretty important areas.

This again speaks to the Jays not having an actual relief ace though and not being able to trust the guy they are paying to be that because he’s had a really bad season.

[JCP11]

Sid would have been tweeting the same thing had they used the most HR prone reliever in baseball against a 60 HR hitter in an 1 run game and a HR was given up in that situation too.

That much I guarantee you.

No he wouldn't and you need to stop saying that. People would be mad at Hoffman but not Schneider. Can't get mad at the coach if he puts his closer in that situation. HR prone or not he was their guy this year with 33 saves. I was honestly expecting Hoffman to take the 8th myself. You had suggested Fisher which I wouldn't have been mad at but going with Hoffman there would have been the right thing to do. They don't have a ton of options either so you couldn't be mad at the coach for using his closer in a big spot like that even if he had failed.

Yes, he absolutely would and everyone would have been livid all the same.

Jeff Hoffman has been bad for months now, allowed the most HRs in Major League Baseball for a reliever and was our 2nd worst reliever by WAR on the season (contributing negative WAR only better than the long since released Chad Green).

Just because everyone is now choosing to collectively ignore that reality (that Hoffman is, in fact, an ineffective reliever for the 2025 Jays) because it’s convenient for them now that another reliever blew the game doesn’t change the actual facts.

Going with their best in that spot would have required going to Fisher (who the Jays have refused to use in high leverage all season, so it was never going to happen). It definitely wasn’t Hoffman in any scenario and no amount of revisionist history will change that.

Randle again, maybe Fisher would have done the job but can't be mad with the process of going with your closer on that spot even if he fails. You are right about the blunders he had but he was still 4th in saves in the majors. He's been in big spots vs the best all season. To me that's the right process. I just don't see why you can fault a coach for putting the guy that has done that job all year no matter what happens.

[Mehar]

Just a reminder that Brendon Little led the Jays this year among relievers in WAR. He had the best strikeout rate and HR rate by a significant margin and was 2nd in FIP (behind only Fisher).

That doesn’t mean he was the right guy in that particular situation but when you have media bringing up that they should have used their “best guys” instead of Little, ask yourself who exactly meets that definition on this team and why?

Look at his numbers in the second half of the year. Little was elite in the first couple of months, but fell off like the Titanic. His numbers over an entire year mean very "Little" with the way he was fallen off the past couple of months.

I don’t disagree (and that’s one of the reasons why he wouldn’t have been my choice) but if you’re looking for reasons why the FO game planned Little pitching in high leverage yesterday, it’s not exactly difficult to see why when you take a look at the overall numbers. He had the best season among a weak bullpen in a number of pretty important areas.

This again speaks to the Jays not having an actual relief ace though and not being able to trust the guy they are paying to be that because he’s had a really bad season.

Maybe I missed something earlier. You keep rationalizing using Little in the 8th yesterday, which was a disaster waiting to happen. Then you repeat it would have not been your choice. What exactly was your choice if your options were Little, Hoffman, or Dominguez? Like I said earlier, you should have simply repeated what you did 24 hours previously. Maybe it was too complicated for Schneider.

Go with Varland in the 7th, Hoffman in the 8th, and Dominguez in the 9th. If you lose, you lose. But under no circumstance, with how garbage Little has been since August, am I putting him in the 8th inning facing the hitters he was with his control issues and Righties hitting him hard. It was wishful thinking that he could be the Little of the month of May. It was destined to backfire.

[Randle McMurphy]

No he wouldn't and you need to stop saying that. People would be mad at Hoffman but not Schneider. Can't get mad at the coach if he puts his closer in that situation. HR prone or not he was their guy this year with 33 saves. I was honestly expecting Hoffman to take the 8th myself. You had suggested Fisher which I wouldn't have been mad at but going with Hoffman there would have been the right thing to do. They don't have a ton of options either so you couldn't be mad at the coach for using his closer in a big spot like that even if he had failed.

Yes, he absolutely would and everyone would have been livid all the same.

Jeff Hoffman has been bad for months now, allowed the most HRs in Major League Baseball for a reliever and was our 2nd worst reliever by WAR on the season (contributing negative WAR only better than the long since released Chad Green).

Just because everyone is now choosing to collectively ignore that reality (that Hoffman is, in fact, an ineffective reliever for the 2025 Jays) because it’s convenient for them now that another reliever blew the game doesn’t change the actual facts.

Going with their best in that spot would have required going to Fisher (who the Jays have refused to use in high leverage all season, so it was never going to happen). It definitely wasn’t Hoffman in any scenario and no amount of revisionist history will change that.

Randle again, maybe Fisher would have done the job but can't be mad with the process of going with your closer on that spot even if he fails. You are right about the blunders he had but he was still 4th in saves in the majors. He's been in big spots vs the best all season. To me that's the right process. I just don't see why you can fault a coach for putting the guy that has done that job all year no matter what happens.

When your “closer” also doubles as the worst reliever on the team all season, yeah I think using him in the biggest spot of the season was clearly gonna be questioned if it went poorly.

All of the evidence suggests that when it gets down to it the Jays don’t trust the guy. It was obvious from the way they used him all postseason (you don’t warm up and use top relievers in blowouts; nobody does that) and from the way he wasn’t used last night in a 1 run game.

I can blame the Jays’ FO for a lot but not trusting a reliever who has been bad all year is not one of them. Assembling a roster where you have a bunch of flawed/bad late game relievers though? That you definitely can.