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GT Wizards vs Pistons

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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#21 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Oct 17, 2025 4:44 am

9 and 20 wrote:
badinage wrote:I know it’s early …

Tre looks smaller than advertised. I know he can shoot it, but he can’t turn the corner on guys.

I only just tuned in, saw only a bit of the third and some of the fourth … I’m going to go back and watch the rest …

I was just listening to Glenn Consor on the radio broadcast. Talking about the Pistons and their rebuild, and how it took time. Yeah, it took a lot of time — and they’re definitely better, but they’re also not an example to hold up to a DC fan. If, after 4-5 years of tanking, we attain the level of the Pistons last year or this, that’s a complete and dispiriting failure. A 49-52 win team that will never get out of the East …


Agree on Tre - he hasnt looked good. It's early but he looks smaller and slower against NBA players. Hopefully the game slows down for him. Grundle players hit the trifecta of old, small, and slow. At least Tre is young.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a 50 win season. I've never seen one in my lifetime and I'm well into middle aged decrepitness. Plus all the pistons guys are in their early or mid 20s.
Another Tre, Trey Burke, dominated NCAA but didn't in the pros.

If a player is small, lacking in physical strength and doesn't have the wherewithal to adapt; he's in trouble.

Right now, I wonder if Tre Johnson can become a Rip Hamilton type player.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#22 » by badinage » Fri Oct 17, 2025 4:54 am

9 and 20 wrote:
badinage wrote:I know it’s early …

Tre looks smaller than advertised. I know he can shoot it, but he can’t turn the corner on guys.

I only just tuned in, saw only a bit of the third and some of the fourth … I’m going to go back and watch the rest …

I was just listening to Glenn Consor on the radio broadcast. Talking about the Pistons and their rebuild, and how it took time. Yeah, it took a lot of time — and they’re definitely better, but they’re also not an example to hold up to a DC fan. If, after 4-5 years of tanking, we attain the level of the Pistons last year or this, that’s a complete and dispiriting failure. A 49-52 win team that will never get out of the East …


Agree on Tre - he hasnt looked good. It's early but he looks smaller and slower against NBA players. Hopefully the game slows down for him. Grundle players hit the trifecta of old, small, and slow. At least Tre is young.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a 50 win season. I've never seen one in my lifetime and I'm well into middle aged decrepitness. Plus all the pistons guys are in their early or mid 20s.


I am, I’m quick to dismiss it. We have been promised a “generational” team, and anything less than that will have to be judged a failure.

We see a number of teams in the league right now that undertook total rebuilds. OKC got lucky, but has built what also looks to be a “generational” team. Cleveland, maybe; we’ll see; they did it right. San Antonio got even luckier than OKC, the bastards — we’ll see with them too. All 3 of these teams are poised. Loaded and poised.

Houston did a total rebuild, and they look good — but they don’t have the look of a team that will be winning 60+ games for the next 6-7 years; FVV is already injured; Durant is sure to be next. Detroit is a pretender. Memphis looked to have momentum, but has squandered it, and is now mired in the middle. I like this Pacers team, but they’re not built to win big and over the long haul. Orlando has some pieces, but has to be judged a disappointment to this point; and I seriously doubt they notch 60+ wins over the next 5 seasons. Etc., etc.

Are all the above teams better than Washington? For sure. But I don’t want their “success.” For me, that “success” simply isn’t worth 3 and soon-to-be 4 seasons of abysmal basketball.

And also, it’s not what we were promised.

I’ll only be happy with the success of OKC and what looks to be the coming success of Cleveland and SA.

All of them have super-duper stars — and it’s super-duper hard to get one. But without one or two it’ll be time to pivot and do what the Knicks have done. And that might be profitable (the Knicks could come out of the East this year). But it won’t be “generational.” I doubt that they’ll be able to hit 60 wins for each of the next 5 seasons without adding a major piece like Giannis.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#23 » by payitforward » Fri Oct 17, 2025 12:53 pm

Yikes!

What if the ping pong balls had given us Wemby in '23? Or Chet? Or even Amen Thompon?
What if they'd given us Flagg in '25? Or Dylan Harper? Or even Ace Bailey?

Would Will meet your standards if we had Victor Wembenyana & Cooper Flagg?
How about if we had Chet & Ace?

The real-world standard is what you do with the assets & tools you have.

Then there's the fact that you want to stick Will with "3 and soon... 4" abysmal seasons! Don't you think the extra season is just a bit unfair? :)
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#24 » by payitforward » Fri Oct 17, 2025 1:12 pm

All the same, it is the privilege of a fan, one of the few & exercised incessantly, to bellyache about his team. So, go right ahead! :)

OTOH, what there is -- rationally -- to complain about right now I cannot imagine.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#25 » by closg00 » Fri Oct 17, 2025 1:40 pm

payitforward wrote:All the same, it is the privilege of a fan, one of the few & exercised incessantly, to bellyache about his team. So, go right ahead! :)

OTOH, what there is -- rationally -- to complain about right now I cannot imagine.


What you call bellyaching, I regard as snapshot observations in time, what has happened in a particular game, and it’s always subject to change until a conclusion/consensus is arrived at on individual players.

Now that we have seen Tre is a couple of games, it is totally fair to pass-along our observations on him, and every player, that’s why we’re here, to discuss all-things regarding the team, why are you here if-not to give your opinions/observations?
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#26 » by dobrojim » Fri Oct 17, 2025 1:56 pm

I'm reserving any conclusions on Tre and anyone
else not yet old enough to buy a drink in a bar. The
challenge for mgmt might be which kids to extend
as they near the end of their rookie deals. Obviously
they'll know more 2-3 years from now.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#27 » by payitforward » Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:09 pm

closg00 wrote:
payitforward wrote:All the same, it is the privilege of a fan, one of the few & exercised incessantly, to bellyache about his team. So, go right ahead! :)

OTOH, what there is -- rationally -- to complain about right now I cannot imagine.

What you call bellyaching, I regard as snapshot observations in time, what has happened in a particular game, and it’s always subject to change until a conclusion/consensus is arrived at on individual players.

Now that we have seen Tre is a couple of games, it is totally fair to pass-along our observations on him, and every player, that’s why we’re here, to discuss all-things regarding the team, why are you here if-not to give your opinions/observations?

Of course! :) & as far as that goes, I've done plenty of "bellyaching" myself!

I'm not trying to shut Badinage down -- far from it! :) as he's a buddy & one of my faves. I'm just jawing with him.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#28 » by AFM » Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:12 pm

Yeah but if your standard is OKC or bust, you are just setting Dawkins and Co up for failure. OKC was statistically one of the greatest teams of all time. He is basically saying if this rebuild doesn't lead to a team that rivals the 96 Bulls it was a failure.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#29 » by badinage » Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:35 pm

He is basically saying that management said it intends to build a “generational” team, and he’s holding them to that.

That’s all.

Winger is the one who established the metric by which they’re to be judged.

Also, to echo closgOO: no one is “concluding” anything about Tre Johnson. We’re simply logging observations — with the qualifier that it’s very, very early days.

As for Will — I think he’s done very well with what he’s been given. Very well. With, of course, one notable and terrible exception.

You need luck, big luck; and we haven’t had it in the draft. But soon? One day? Who knows.

But to build a 50-52 win team, that never moves much past that and is bounced after the first round and maybe — maybe — one year squeaks past the second round … you don’t need to tank and tank hard for 4-5 years.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#30 » by AFM » Fri Oct 17, 2025 3:12 pm

I suppose the word generational is open to interpretation. I'm hoping for far more than 52 wins too, but technically that would be a multi-generational team for this franchise. Hasnt happened in 50 years.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#31 » by tontoz » Fri Oct 17, 2025 3:24 pm

The PG13 trade is what made OKC what they are.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#32 » by Frichuela » Fri Oct 17, 2025 4:05 pm

tontoz wrote:The PG13 trade is what made OKC what they are.


100%. Landing SGA and getting a bucket load of picks in the process was the key. I'd also add drafting J-Dub with the 12th pick. Remember Tommy drafted Johnny Davis with the 10th pick in that very same draft. :banghead:

Can Dawkins pull off something like that? Very difficult but time will tell.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#33 » by GoneShammGone » Fri Oct 17, 2025 4:36 pm

Frichuela wrote:
tontoz wrote:The PG13 trade is what made OKC what they are.


100%. Landing SGA and getting a bucket load of picks in the process was the key. I'd also add drafting J-Dub with the 12th pick. Remember Tommy drafted Johnny Davis with the 10th pick in that very same draft. :banghead:

Can Dawkins pull off something like that? Very difficult but time will tell.


Also remember how they got PG to begin with: Oladipo and Sabonis. Indiana can't feel too good about that. So in some sense, they sold high on two young players and that made all the difference. Is there a Bub/Sarr or Bub/Bilal deal out there like that for us?
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#34 » by doclinkin » Fri Oct 17, 2025 9:55 pm

badinage wrote:He is basically saying that management said it intends to build a “generational” team, and he’s holding them to that.


My understanding of Dawkins phrase “generational“ was that he expects that the team will get good and remain good for a long time.

To do so he’s continually trading for additional draft picks deep into the future. In that way, despite the toxic second apron provisions of the CBA, he has set the team up to continually renew itself with fresh talent. Whether this is by drafting and growing their own talent, or assembling enough young prospects to trade for a proven winner, he’s set the team up to have the resources to do so for what looks like seven years into the future. So far. Is that a generation in professional sports?
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#35 » by badinage » Sat Oct 18, 2025 12:05 am

The phrase was Winger’s.

And he didn’t mean a team that’s just good for a time.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#36 » by AFM » Sat Oct 18, 2025 12:51 am

Correct. He clearly meant a team as good as OKC, the team with the all-time top differential
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#37 » by badinage » Sat Oct 18, 2025 1:34 am

You do a weird strawman thing.

He didn’t mean that, and I’m not saying he did.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#38 » by doclinkin » Sat Oct 18, 2025 6:09 am

badinage wrote:The phrase was Winger’s.

And he didn’t mean a team that’s just good for a time.


Found it:


The goal is to pursue championships by any means necessary,” Winger said at his introductory news conference Thursday. “It will take time. It’s going to start on the ground floor. It’s not just players. It’s not just coaches. We’re going to do everything a little bit better tomorrow than it’s being done today … Eventually we’re going to hoist a trophy here in D.C. I can’t promise you when.”



“The Wizards have an extremely bright future, if appropriately managed,” Winger said. “The eventual expectation is that we’re going to build a generational contender. We’re going to eventually have a team that will contend for championships. I can’t promise when that will be.”


Okay. Absolutely. If we win a championship that counts as generational. Considering it hasn’t happened here in 2-3 generations.

But he damn sure didn’t promise it would happen in 3 years. Winger made it clear he expects the process to take a while. Teams like San Antonio shortened that time by dint of luck. They followed the same model as the Wiz, trading away good players in order to bottom out. Difference is they failed upwards in the lotto. The Wiz were one lucky bounce away from that same luck.

The Cavs got there with luck and a smart trade. Same as OKC in landing Chet but also an absolutely perfect trade of a fading star for a rising one plus a raft of draft capital. We didn’t have a star of that caliber but the Suns swaps still could pan out as something similar.

Much of this is luck. They’re doing everything they can to stack the luck in their favor. But it comes down to ping pong balls when you’re talking about landing Wemby and Harper, or Flagg for fxcks sake, sometimes the odds shine on someone else.

Until we are out from under the John Wall trade you can’t fault them for committing to as many years of “abysmal” basketball as necessary. Blame Sheppard for endangering that pick 4 years into the future. Because if we don’t lose then that New York team you’d emulate could be a ‘generational’ squad by adding a free top 10 lotto pick to a veteran winning team.

So yes. We have to eat the losses for one more year. Since we don’t even have the assets to trade to become a better squad. And nor do we have the advantage of a New York market. Nor the dad of an all star on staff (Brunson) to both land him cheap and help re sign him at a discount.

How sick would you feel if New York got our number nine pick but the Suns won a top 3 selection. In a potentially historic draft. There goes our pick swap. There goes 2 teams enriched at our expense.

I dunno. I too look forward to see how management builds and drafts when they are no longer under the threat of that lost pick. It will be good to see who we can be when we’re actually trying to win. But until then I have no problem with their tactic of drafting the youngest talents in the draft and hoping to build them to their top potential.

Tre Johnson won’t turn 20 til March. Remember how young and out of sorts Deni looked as a teenage NBA player? Tre is even younger. Deni is a January baby. And he already had pro experience. Struggled with inconsistency and hesitancy to shoot for his first 3 years. Got it together on his 2nd contract.

Will Riley and Tre Johnson reclassified to this draft class. They’re supposed to be in next years draft. Bub. Alex. Bilal. All were among the youngest in their draft class. All coming into a situation where they’re not surrounded by winners. Are thrown into a rip tide current to learn to swim. High school seniors or college freshmen battling NBA all stars on a nightly basis. When studies show players make their biggest leaps at age 22, 23, 24. In that order.

So yeah. I’m not going to be quick to judge a kid in his first few preseason games joining a team with a bunch of other college kids all trying to figure it out. One more year of losing. Looking for flashes of talent and having to be happy with that. One more draft and then we can try to build a roster with the best of that bunch.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#39 » by gesa2 » Sat Oct 18, 2025 1:47 pm

+1 doc.
We are doing what chat boards always do this time of year. Get really excited about our new players and the improvements our returning players have shown over the Summer. Predict our players and the team will be better than we really are. Then get disappointed when results don’t match our overoptimistic projections and talk about who’s at fault for not getting where we thought they should be.
It’s better and more interesting than just saying we’re all young and inconsistent and no one is good enough to look great every day yet.
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: GT Wizards vs Pistons 

Post#40 » by nate33 » Sat Oct 18, 2025 2:49 pm

I didn't get a chance to watch the Detroit game until this morning.

I liked a lot of what I saw from our players individually, but they are absolutely not on the same page as a team. Most of the defensive lapses weren't individuals getting beat, but poor rotations and poor communication on back screens. This is the type of thing you expect to see from young teams. They'll get better. Tre Johnson and Will Riley in particular were making a lot of defensive mistakes off ball. (I liked Tre Johnson's on ball defense though.)

I continue to be impressed with Sarr. Yeah, Duren outmuscled him a couple of times in first few minutes of the game, but after that, Sarr got his bearings and responded to the physicality nicely. He ended with 9 rebounds, 2 blocks and 6 FTA's in just 23 minutes. That's a good game. He was the only non-garbage-time player with a positive on/off differential. Most of the pick-and-roll points Duren scored weren't Sarr's fault. Our wings were getting beat on the high screen and Sarr had no choice but to switch onto Cade. The failure was usually the weak side guard doing a lousy job tagging a rolling Duren.

Kyshawn George was incredible. The guy looks like a 10-year veteran out there, playing at his own speed. With Bub out and Ausar hounding CJ, they just let Kyshawn run point and he did a good job.

I was also pretty impressed with Kispert making plays off the bounce. He has come a long way as a ball handler and is now running secondary pick-and-rolls successfully.

The team needs to throw a few wrinkles into the dribble hand-off sets. Detroit was blitzing the handoffs and really junking things up. They're going to need to do more unpredictable back cuts to make teams pay.

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