Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:...I'm posting to say right now that Nique Clifford is far better than Tre...
closg00 wrote:Early observation qualification (relax board minders)
Tres is out there kind of floundering around operating within an offense that never gets off the ground, he is putting-in good effort, but like Bub, he doesn't have the juke-moves/quickness/strength YET to beat NBA defenders, he is taking some tough shots, but also missing good looks. The team needs a point guard and offense that will benefit Tre and Bub's strengths, we need a Point Guard and new coach, otherwise this group will never reach its potential. My two cents.
nate33 wrote:Tre is going to be just fine. I'm actually liking his on ball defense so far this preseason. His off ball defense is a mess, but that's expected with young players. Offensively, he just needs to get stronger. He has toothpicks for arms right now and he's not effective enough at creating space when defenders crowd him. He also looks a bit rushed as he adjusts to the speed of the NBA. That's also very common. Let's see how he looks after he has 20 games under his belt. I think those 3's and floaters will start to drop.
payitforward wrote:Why are so many of you taking this kid apart?
It's just the identical opposite from a bunch of people predicting greatness from him before he'd ever played an NBA minute!
No one has the slightest idea how this young man will fare in the league.
.
The Consiglieri wrote:payitforward wrote:Why are so many of you taking this kid apart?
It's just the identical opposite from a bunch of people predicting greatness from him before he'd ever played an NBA minute!
No one has the slightest idea how this young man will fare in the league.
Probably because we got completely hosed out of 1 of Flagg, Harper, Edgecome or Bailey, and with Flagg, Harper and Bailey (not aware of what's happening with Edgecombe) all killing it, any hint that the miracle rise to potentially 3rd on some boards of Tre down the stretch being a fools errand of post-college season nonsense hype b.s. is freaking people out. Could it just be yet another example of someone who was clearly 2 tiers below the top guys (the big 3+1), being hyped up with offseason workouts, rather than actual in game data, and so its all illusory horse ----?
That's what's happening.
People want the good news breadcrumbs that comes in off-season, and with summer league and preseason performance, the long slog of waiting for huge sample sizes of data is something few can bare to stomach knowing we already got totally ----ed in the only lottery that really mattered for us the past decade AN ABSOLUTE TON. This is rampant anxiety basically, and because some of it is based on logic and reason, it's more sticky than the sort of anxiety my mother bothered me with for hours today lol.
For me, I'm gonna panic if he clearly is just what I feared in terms of overall impact (again, not a player comp, just an impact comp), which was Cal Cheney of 32 years ago, but I'm gonna give Tre a lot of rope until I panic. It would just be so so so much more comfortable if he gave us the sort of stuff the big 4 of this class are clearly giving, which is they are what the scouts thought they were: STUDS. It would be nice if Tre just rained 3 pointers and jumpers in the face of everyone left and right all day, but we will have to wait I guess. I'm not gonna panic until at least 50 games, and even then I'll have some hope unless it goes the way of Johnny Davis lol, which it won't.
Personally I'm just irate. We deserved luck for once, and instead we got prison ---- from the lottery. A franchise tortured for 45 years got yet another kick straight in the nuts last may, and who knows, maybe another kick comes next may. That, for me anyway, is my frustration. Why in the ---- did ----ing San Antonio, who had already landed 3 generational big men in thirty years, have to also freaking land a generational PG prospect? Why did Philly, who got gifted how many --- damned top 3 picks the past decade have to get a top pick too? How did freaking DALLAS, Dallas, have to have a rigged lottery, or the biggest bull---- timed pile of luck land in their laps too? Was it not enough that they won a title and have played for a title 3 times in 20 years? Do we have to suffer for freaking 100 years? WTF?!?!?! Sanguine is a feeling I've literally never had in my entire life as a Wizards fan.
That's part of the reason I'm amazed at you. You're not 50 like me. You should be even less patient with the bull--- lottery flattening that was patently obviously designed to make rich teams richer, and totally screw over franchises like ours, suffering FOREVER. But you're patience. I need what you're drinking, PLEASE
penbeast0 wrote:First: Tre didn't just kill it in offseason workouts, he was a genuine college standout as a freshman. Probably more so than Harper or Bailey though they were higher rated in high school. They are the ones that showed more in measurements, and skill workouts and were drafted higher because of it.
Second: No signs that Harper is a generation point guard prospect that I've seen. Good prospect, good size, good downhill ability, we will see whether he develops the court vision or 3 point ability of a top level point guard but he hasn't proven those things yet. I think he's getting a bit overhyped.
The Consiglieri wrote:penbeast0 wrote:
Second: No signs that Harper is a generation point guard prospect that I've seen. Good prospect, good size, good downhill ability, we will see whether he develops the court vision or 3 point ability of a top level point guard but he hasn't proven those things yet. I think he's getting a bit overhyped.
I think you're the first person I've come across that views Harper as good, rather than elite. I'm not saying Harper's a locked in 1.01 for any draft, but he'd be the 1.01 in most solid to good drafts, and he is generally tiered out similarly to guys like Ant, Ja, and the like from their classes, and I think he has a greater upside than Ja if not Ant.
The Consiglieri wrote:payitforward wrote:Why are so many of you taking this kid apart?
It's just the identical opposite from a bunch of people predicting greatness from him before he'd ever played an NBA minute!
No one has the slightest idea how this young man will fare in the league.
Probably because we got completely hosed out of 1 of Flagg, Harper, Edgecome or Bailey, and with Flagg, Harper and Bailey (not aware of what's happening with Edgecombe) all killing it, any hint that the miracle rise to potentially 3rd on some boards of Tre down the stretch being a fools errand of post-college season nonsense hype b.s. is freaking people out. Could it just be yet another example of someone who was clearly 2 tiers below the top guys (the big 3+1), being hyped up with offseason workouts, rather than actual in game data, and so its all illusory horse ----?
That's what's happening.
People want the good news breadcrumbs that comes in off-season, and with summer league and preseason performance, the long slog of waiting for huge sample sizes of data is something few can bare to stomach knowing we already got totally ----ed in the only lottery that really mattered for us the past decade AN ABSOLUTE TON. This is rampant anxiety basically, and because some of it is based on logic and reason, it's more sticky than the sort of anxiety my mother bothered me with for hours today lol.
For me, I'm gonna panic if he clearly is just what I feared in terms of overall impact (again, not a player comp, just an impact comp), which was Cal Cheney of 32 years ago, but I'm gonna give Tre a lot of rope until I panic. It would just be so so so much more comfortable if he gave us the sort of stuff the big 4 of this class are clearly giving, which is they are what the scouts thought they were: STUDS. It would be nice if Tre just rained 3 pointers and jumpers in the face of everyone left and right all day, but we will have to wait I guess. I'm not gonna panic until at least 50 games, and even then I'll have some hope unless it goes the way of Johnny Davis lol, which it won't.
Personally I'm just irate. We deserved luck for once, and instead we got prison ---- from the lottery. A franchise tortured for 45 years got yet another kick straight in the nuts last may, and who knows, maybe another kick comes next may. That, for me anyway, is my frustration. Why in the ---- did ----ing San Antonio, who had already landed 3 generational big men in thirty years, have to also freaking land a generational PG prospect? Why did Philly, who got gifted how many --- damned top 3 picks the past decade have to get a top pick too? How did freaking DALLAS, Dallas, have to have a rigged lottery, or the biggest bull---- timed pile of luck land in their laps too? Was it not enough that they won a title and have played for a title 3 times in 20 years? Do we have to suffer for freaking 100 years? WTF?!?!?! Sanguine is a feeling I've literally never had in my entire life as a Wizards fan.
That's part of the reason I'm amazed at you. You're not 50 like me. You should be even less patient with the bull--- lottery flattening that was patently obviously designed to make rich teams richer, and totally screw over franchises like ours, suffering FOREVER. But you're patience. I need what you're drinking, PLEASE
The Consiglieri wrote:penbeast0 wrote:First: Tre didn't just kill it in offseason workouts, he was a genuine college standout as a freshman. Probably more so than Harper or Bailey though they were higher rated in high school. They are the ones that showed more in measurements, and skill workouts and were drafted higher because of it.
Second: No signs that Harper is a generation point guard prospect that I've seen. Good prospect, good size, good downhill ability, we will see whether he develops the court vision or 3 point ability of a top level point guard but he hasn't proven those things yet. I think he's getting a bit overhyped.
He was also a pretty meh to crap defender in college which is one of two key reasons teams didn't have him in the same tiers as the Flagg, and Harper/VJ/ Bailey tiers), and that would be defense (yes I know he was asked to carry the offensive load, and so took time off under heavy usage on d, and I know he has the measurements to at least be average in time, but there's a fundamental difference between an argument for an elite defender, a good defender, and elite measurables for defense, and "maybe he becomes solid due to his measurables and less heavy usage" take on a players defense and defensive potential) and athleticism.
Tre's got his ticket to success, it's highly unlikely he busts, but the ceiling was always lower than the big 4 because of the athletic and defensive short comings. No doubt the higher floor than Bailey, but definitely not the higher ceiling than any of those 4.
I think you're the first person I've come across that views Harper as good, rather than elite. I'm not saying Harper's a locked in 1.01 for any draft, but he'd be the 1.01 in most solid to good drafts, and he is generally tiered out similarly to guys like Ant, Ja, and the like from their classes, and I think he has a greater upside than Ja if not Ant.
Theathletic did a nice piece on Tre Johnson repeatedly talking to scouts about him, they generally really like him, see high likely outcomes, but like me, they seem skeptical of stardom, view him as the 3rd guy on a legit team, and this draft had 4 guys who had top 2 guy potential (and when I say that, I mean "reasonably likely", obviously there are guys peppered throughout the draft with high ceilings, but far less likely projected outcome that would reach such heights, whereas the big 4 in this class were generally seen as 40%+ and better to spit ball it, whereas as a say, Maluach, could have a through the roof outcome, but it's far less likely).
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6720995/2025/10/16/tre-johnson-what-scouts-are-saying/
Beyond frustrating as a wizards fan/victim to just perenially be screwed in this way. It's possible I'm wrong on his ceiling, I hope so, but I think the rush up the charts you saw with his prospect status from consensus 5th-7th (depending upon how high people had Kon ranked) to as high as 3rd on some boards, like Vecennie, is going to most likely disappear, and he'll settle in amongst the second or third tier of this class beyond the studs (Flagg+er's). Pray I'm wrong, but that is definitely the most likely outcome.
Northwest Roddy wrote:Tre isn’t passing my eye test, but Tre is a smidge shorter and lighter than SGA. In his rookie year, SGA averaged just under 11 points a game. I’m a Bullets/Wiz fan for almost 50 years so am, naturally, an undying optimist. Let’s see how his rookie year goes. Tre is a hard worker.
If not, let’s get balco on the phone and get him on some Hulk Hogan vitamins.
