Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[ConSarnit]

I've got good news for you: he's actually better than those preseason averages. The most annoying part is you and everyone else know it. And yet we still get these "I get that preseason numbers don't matter, but look how bad his preseason numbers are" takes.

You brought up his good preseason game first my guy

The sad part is we played 6 preseason games and there is only 1 you can point to that was good for Barnes. It isn’t like he’s been an incredible player for years and these are blips. He has had so many stretches of his career where he looks disinterested and looks like **** for games at a time, then has 1 huge game to make people forget about it.

But this is who Scottie has been for his entire career. A completely inconsistent player who can give you 31/6/4 one nightand a 1/11 shooting performance the next. This isn’t new

Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

You literally said, within the same sentence, preseason stats don't mean **** and also we should be concerned because of how bad Scottie's preseason stats are lol. I suggest you take your own advice and ignore it.

Scottie is our best player. This has been true for the third consecutive season. We know his floor, and it's quite good. Bad shooting performances tell me nothing about effort level. Inconsistent play from a young guy who's being tossed around on a team with an identity crisis: I'm shocked.

We were just in the lottery 2 seasons in a row (bottom 10 actually). And this is supposed to be some feather in Barnes’ cap in regard to being our best player? Doesn’t this tell you what happens with a team where Barnes is a team’s best player?

You guys are unrelenting homers. You can’t be objective about anything. Barnes has significant flaws that aren’t all related to “roster construction” or “tanking”. It’s crazy that you won’t hold him accountable for his lack of development.

[ConSarnit]

Trading Scottie is crazy. He’s only 24 and is finally about to settle into his correct offensive role, which will still have him at 20ppg, but with above avg efficiency.

All offensive struggles to this point are all explainable. But he will gradually polish out his scoring on the margins over the next few years, and in the meantime, a defensive anchor with 20, 9.5, 6, and 3+ stocks on a playoff team is absolutely a max contract player. It’s objectively true.

How are his offensive struggles explainable? You do realize he is bad at scoring from almost everywhere and on almost every play type.

It’s been 4 years and he doesn’t have a single go to move to get an efficient bucket. He’s a bad shooter. Bad pnr scorer. Bad iso scorer. Bad transition scorer. Bad post scorer. We have the numbers for all of these play types and they’re all bad. How are these ALL explainable? What has he been working on over 4 years? His ball handler hasn’t improved. He hasn’t gotten more athletic. Honestly, where has he improved from a work ethic perspective? And why do we expect that to change now that he’s been paid?

[wegotthabeet]

You brought up his good preseason game first my guy

The sad part is we played 6 preseason games and there is only 1 you can point to that was good for Barnes. It isn’t like he’s been an incredible player for years and these are blips. He has had so many stretches of his career where he looks disinterested and looks like **** for games at a time, then has 1 huge game to make people forget about it.

But this is who Scottie has been for his entire career. A completely inconsistent player who can give you 31/6/4 one nightand a 1/11 shooting performance the next. This isn’t new

Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

You literally said, within the same sentence, preseason stats don't mean **** and also we should be concerned because of how bad Scottie's preseason stats are lol. I suggest you take your own advice and ignore it.

Scottie is our best player. This has been true for the third consecutive season. We know his floor, and it's quite good. Bad shooting performances tell me nothing about effort level. Inconsistent play from a young guy who's being tossed around on a team with an identity crisis: I'm shocked.

We were just in the lottery 2 seasons in a row (bottom 10 actually). And this is supposed to be some feather in Barnes’ cap in regard to being our best player? Doesn’t this tell you what happens with a team where Barnes is a team’s best player?

You guys are unrelenting homers. You can’t be objective about anything. Barnes has significant flaws that aren’t all related to “roster construction” or “tanking”. It’s crazy that you won’t hold him accountable for his lack of development.

He made a massive leap from year 2 to 3 and definitely regressed from year 3 to 4. This year hasn’t happened yet, so let’s see what actually happens. Also you’re ignoring context, which is bias in my opinion. The team record when actively tanking two years in row is irrelevant. If the results are similar to year 4 this year then I’m right there with you. Got to let the actual season play out before coming to a conclusion. Otherwise it’s just pure reactionary bias.

[MoneyBall]

You brought up his good preseason game first my guy

The sad part is we played 6 preseason games and there is only 1 you can point to that was good for Barnes. It isn’t like he’s been an incredible player for years and these are blips. He has had so many stretches of his career where he looks disinterested and looks like **** for games at a time, then has 1 huge game to make people forget about it.

But this is who Scottie has been for his entire career. A completely inconsistent player who can give you 31/6/4 one nightand a 1/11 shooting performance the next. This isn’t new

Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

You literally said, within the same sentence, preseason stats don't mean **** and also we should be concerned because of how bad Scottie's preseason stats are lol. I suggest you take your own advice and ignore it.

Scottie is our best player. This has been true for the third consecutive season. We know his floor, and it's quite good. Bad shooting performances tell me nothing about effort level. Inconsistent play from a young guy who's being tossed around on a team with an identity crisis: I'm shocked.

We were just in the lottery 2 seasons in a row (bottom 10 actually). And this is supposed to be some feather in Barnes’ cap in regard to being our best player? Doesn’t this tell you what happens with a team where Barnes is a team’s best player?

You guys are unrelenting homers. You can’t be objective about anything. Barnes has significant flaws that aren’t all related to “roster construction” or “tanking”. It’s crazy that you won’t hold him accountable for his lack of development.

Gee, it's almost as if he's human.

[Clutch0z24]

Scottie will shine if we can pair him with a true #1

It's the Bosh problem. Where you've bought the cart, but nobody's selling horses.

An 11 time All-Star/ HOF problem? Sign me up!

Bosh was way better than Barnes ever was sorry to say.....People underestimate how good Bosh really was because of the lack of talent we had around him here....He wasn't a Franchise player or anything but his individual talent on the court in his prime was very high level.

[ConSarnit]

Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

You literally said, within the same sentence, preseason stats don't mean **** and also we should be concerned because of how bad Scottie's preseason stats are lol. I suggest you take your own advice and ignore it.

Scottie is our best player. This has been true for the third consecutive season. We know his floor, and it's quite good. Bad shooting performances tell me nothing about effort level. Inconsistent play from a young guy who's being tossed around on a team with an identity crisis: I'm shocked.

We were just in the lottery 2 seasons in a row (bottom 10 actually). And this is supposed to be some feather in Barnes’ cap in regard to being our best player? Doesn’t this tell you what happens with a team where Barnes is a team’s best player?

You guys are unrelenting homers. You can’t be objective about anything. Barnes has significant flaws that aren’t all related to “roster construction” or “tanking”. It’s crazy that you won’t hold him accountable for his lack of development.

He made a massive leap from year 2 to 3 and definitely regressed from year 3 to 4. This year hasn’t happened yet, so let’s see what actually happens. Also you’re ignoring context, which is bias in my opinion. The team record when actively tanking two years in row is irrelevant. If the results are similar to year 4 this year then I’m right there with you. Got to let the actual season play out before coming to a conclusion. Otherwise it’s just pure reactionary bias.

He did not make a leap, at least offensively. He got hot from 3 for 2.5 months. Post Jan 1 of that season he was back to shooting 31% from 3 and his TS% reverted to 54%.

Almost all of Barnes “progression” in year 3 is tied to 100 3pa. Since Jan. 1 2024 he’s taken almost 500 3pa and he’s made 30%. By all accounts his improvement to start ‘23/24 was a fluke.

Go look up any of Barnes’ play type stats on NBA.com. He is bad across the board, year after year. What has he improved from a skill development standpoint over 4 seasons?

Barnes has gotten better at “experience” related skills like defense. This of course has real value. But his scoring game has been somewhere between bad to terrible, and it doesn’t matter who has been on the team of if we’ve been trying to win or not.

We’re paying him the max. You can’t be 5th year player and have made almost zero improvement in any scoring aspect. He’s either not working hard enough or he’s not capable.

[bballsparkin]

It's the Bosh problem. Where you've bought the cart, but nobody's selling horses.

An 11 time All-Star/ HOF problem? Sign me up!

Bosh was way better than Barnes ever was sorry to say.....People underestimate how good Bosh really was because of the lack of talent we had around him here....He wasn't a Franchise player or anything but his individual talent on the court in his prime was very high level.

Well clearly. I think Bosh was better than Siakam although Siakam is making his case.

[ConSarnit]

Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

You literally said, within the same sentence, preseason stats don't mean **** and also we should be concerned because of how bad Scottie's preseason stats are lol. I suggest you take your own advice and ignore it.

Scottie is our best player. This has been true for the third consecutive season. We know his floor, and it's quite good. Bad shooting performances tell me nothing about effort level. Inconsistent play from a young guy who's being tossed around on a team with an identity crisis: I'm shocked.

We were just in the lottery 2 seasons in a row (bottom 10 actually). And this is supposed to be some feather in Barnes’ cap in regard to being our best player? Doesn’t this tell you what happens with a team where Barnes is a team’s best player?

You guys are unrelenting homers. You can’t be objective about anything. Barnes has significant flaws that aren’t all related to “roster construction” or “tanking”. It’s crazy that you won’t hold him accountable for his lack of development.

Gee, it's almost as if he's human.

What argument are you trying to make? You don’t get to hand wave away real flaws because he’s “human”. He has made almost zero scoring improvements across 4 seasons. The guy is getting paid the max. We no longer have years to wait on his development.

Why do you think it’s acceptable for a 5th year player to make little to no progress in a significant area of their game? Why has Barnes not improved in almost a single area of scoring? ISO, shooting, post up, pnr. He’s bad in all of them. How is that acceptable? We’re not asking for improvement everywhere but we need improvement somewhere and we’re not getting it.

[DelAbbot]

I still remember his rookie year when we were calling him a hybrid of Magic and Kawhi. Good times

[YogurtProducer]

[Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

Uhhhh, this you?

Look, it's real simple, all he has to do is go 31/6/4 with super high effeciency

You literally said, within the same sentence, preseason stats don't mean **** and also we should be concerned because of how bad Scottie's preseason stats are lol. I suggest you take your own advice and ignore it.

Never said we need to be concerned - that is you putting words into my mouth.

Scottie is our best player. This has been true for the third consecutive season. We know his floor, and it's quite good.

1) Scottie is not our best player anymore
2) His floor is not good. His floor is actually downright pathetically low.

Bad shooting performances tell me nothing about effort level. Inconsistent play from a young guy who's being tossed around on a team with an identity crisis: I'm shocked.

Good ,then we agree, because I never said they did, in fact what I did say was:

I would be happy with half the PPG you just posted if it meant an engage Scottie 100% of the time who actually looks like he gives a ****. That alone is a great player.

[YogurtProducer]

Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

You literally said, within the same sentence, preseason stats don't mean **** and also we should be concerned because of how bad Scottie's preseason stats are lol. I suggest you take your own advice and ignore it.

Scottie is our best player. This has been true for the third consecutive season. We know his floor, and it's quite good. Bad shooting performances tell me nothing about effort level. Inconsistent play from a young guy who's being tossed around on a team with an identity crisis: I'm shocked.

We were just in the lottery 2 seasons in a row (bottom 10 actually). And this is supposed to be some feather in Barnes’ cap in regard to being our best player? Doesn’t this tell you what happens with a team where Barnes is a team’s best player?

You guys are unrelenting homers. You can’t be objective about anything. Barnes has significant flaws that aren’t all related to “roster construction” or “tanking”. It’s crazy that you won’t hold him accountable for his lack of development.

Gee, it's almost as if he's human.

So is every other player on our roster?

[YogurtProducer]

some days I come on here and after reading a few posts I hope toronto loses all of it's sports teams.

a lot of you don't deserve teams to root for.

between wanting to get rid of good players, to harassing players families because of a bad performance.

it's just sad.

Very few people even are pro-trade Scottie, and none want to get rid of him for nothing.

Dont even know what the harassing families has to do with it (Yesavage maybe? But that was not even directly at Toronto fans)

[MoneyBall]

We were just in the lottery 2 seasons in a row (bottom 10 actually). And this is supposed to be some feather in Barnes’ cap in regard to being our best player? Doesn’t this tell you what happens with a team where Barnes is a team’s best player?

You guys are unrelenting homers. You can’t be objective about anything. Barnes has significant flaws that aren’t all related to “roster construction” or “tanking”. It’s crazy that you won’t hold him accountable for his lack of development.

Gee, it's almost as if he's human.

What argument are you trying to make? You don’t get to hand wave away real flaws because he’s “human”. He has made almost zero scoring improvements across 4 seasons. The guy is getting paid the max. We no longer have years to wait on his development.

Why do you think it’s acceptable for a 5th year player to make little to no progress in a significant area of their game? Why has Barnes not improved in almost a single area of scoring? ISO, shooting, post up, pnr. He’s bad in all of them. How is that acceptable? We’re not asking for improvement everywhere but we need improvement somewhere and we’re not getting it.

You're cherry picking one area of his game. He's a much better overall player today than when he entered the league. No question. He went from ROY, to AS, to now the face of this organization, all in his first 3 seasons. But because he hasn't turned into a bonafide scorer he's a failure.

BTW, the guy is getting paid the max because he's worth the max. There's no team out there that would hesitate to take him and his contract.

[bballsparkin]

[Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

Uhhhh, this you?

Look, it's real simple, all he has to do is go 31/6/4 with super high effeciency/S

Lol, pretty sure you forgot to add the /S.

[TheRaptor!]

Gee, it's almost as if he's human.

What argument are you trying to make? You don’t get to hand wave away real flaws because he’s “human”. He has made almost zero scoring improvements across 4 seasons. The guy is getting paid the max. We no longer have years to wait on his development.

Why do you think it’s acceptable for a 5th year player to make little to no progress in a significant area of their game? Why has Barnes not improved in almost a single area of scoring? ISO, shooting, post up, pnr. He’s bad in all of them. How is that acceptable? We’re not asking for improvement everywhere but we need improvement somewhere and we’re not getting it.

You're cherry picking one area of his game. He's a much better overall player today than when he entered the league. No question. He went from ROY, to AS, to now the face of this organization, all in his first 3 seasons. But because he hasn't turned into a bonafide scorer he's a failure.

BTW, the guy is getting paid the max because he's worth the max. There's no team out there that would hesitate to take him and his contract.

"one" area of the game

I suppose one can indeed group all facets of scoring into a singular area

[Thaddy]

In the season opener Barnes is going to destroy Porzingis. A versatile help defender like him will be useful against a soft stretch big like KP. I don't expect a big scoring game but I do think he'll be dominant defensively and get us running in transition. If we put RJ on Young, then Barnes gets a stop and rebound. He'll forward the ball to RJ in transition against Young. That will be the key to winning this game, attacking Young on defense and in transition.

[YogurtProducer]

[Um, no. I did not bring up preseason stats with you, nor was it used as an argument for its validity. I responded to those who DO take those stats seriously (people like you, apparently).

Uhhhh, this you?

Look, it's real simple, all he has to do is go 31/6/4 with super high effeciency/S

Lol, pretty sure you forgot to add the /S.

I don’t know, he seemed to ignore my “preseason doesn’t mean anything” and start and argument so I figured it was irrelevant. Or am I doing this bad faith arguing wrong?

[YogurtProducer]

In the season opener Barnes is going to destroy Porzingis. A versatile help defender like him will be useful against a soft stretch big like KP. I don't expect a big scoring game but I do think he'll be dominant defensively and get us running in transition. If we put RJ on Young, then Barnes gets a stop and rebound. He'll forward the ball to RJ in transition against Young. That will be the key to winning this game, attacking Young on defense and in transition.

I don’t know if he will. Kristaps or whoever they put on Barnes will just play 15 feet off of him. If anything a good shot blocker like Kristaps is gonna wreck havoc on us if he can just roam with Barnes being no threat.

[YogurtProducer]

Gee, it's almost as if he's human.

What argument are you trying to make? You don’t get to hand wave away real flaws because he’s “human”. He has made almost zero scoring improvements across 4 seasons. The guy is getting paid the max. We no longer have years to wait on his development.

Why do you think it’s acceptable for a 5th year player to make little to no progress in a significant area of their game? Why has Barnes not improved in almost a single area of scoring? ISO, shooting, post up, pnr. He’s bad in all of them. How is that acceptable? We’re not asking for improvement everywhere but we need improvement somewhere and we’re not getting it.

You're cherry picking one area of his game. He's a much better overall player today than when he entered the league. No question. He went from ROY, to AS, to now the face of this organization, all in his first 3 seasons. But because he hasn't turned into a bonafide scorer he's a failure.

BTW, the guy is getting paid the max because he's worth the max. There's no team out there that would hesitate to take him and his contract.

To be honest, I think he’s the exact same player he was as when he entered the league.

Hes got higher usage now, so his raw <‘s are up, but I don’t know if he is any better from a skills standpoint. He has some experience to draw back on now, but he is not technically stronger anywhere.

I think he’s fine at his contract, but he certainly isn’t a great contract by any means.

It’s a legit conversation to wonder if Barnes would be a candidate to move now if you could cash out fairly well. Personally I’m concerned his growth is done, and that his fit here is pretty abysmal.

I wouldn’t necessarily be actively looking to move him or anything, but he is far from untouchable. If we had some sort of Sabonis-Haliburton type trade offered we would have to consider it.

[Thaddy]

In the season opener Barnes is going to destroy Porzingis. A versatile help defender like him will be useful against a soft stretch big like KP. I don't expect a big scoring game but I do think he'll be dominant defensively and get us running in transition. If we put RJ on Young, then Barnes gets a stop and rebound. He'll forward the ball to RJ in transition against Young. That will be the key to winning this game, attacking Young on defense and in transition.

I don’t know if he will. Kristaps or whoever they put on Barnes will just play 15 feet off of him. If anything a good shot blocker like Kristaps is gonna wreck havoc on us if he can just roam with Barnes being no threat.

Then Barnes can set screens and roll like he did against the Nets.