Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[YogurtProducer]

[
Saying "end of story" after a false statement doesn't magically make it true. You said Scottie was a net negative on offense his entire career. THAT is false.

Even if I only use your preferred advanced metrics and disqualify the ones you've arbitrarily dismissed, you're still wrong. Here are Scottie's offensive metrics:

LEBRON

Yr1 -0.8
Yr2 +0.3
Yr3 +0.9
Yr4 +0.1

Darko

Yr1 0.0
Yr2 +0.1
Yr3 +0.8
Yr4 +0.1

RAPTOR

Yr1 0.1

*metric no longer calculated after 2022. However, it's notable that Scottie's year one metric in RAPTOR is even better than the other two advanced metrics.

EPM

*I don't have a subscription so I can't look at past seasons, but I remember him being in the positive every time I looked him up.

Well look at that, you posted a bunch of evidence he is not a positive offensive player. He is at best, neutral.

You also conveniently ignored:

RAMP -1.3
MAMBA - 0.5

I wonder why, hmm?

Simply put - Barnes is not a positive offensive piece. And it is not really that surprising that a inefficient sub-20ppg guy who had the ball in his hands a lot is not loved in the advanced community.

I can't use MAMBA because it relies on box score data, right? Plus, it's still a totally niche metric at this point.

So just a quick recap:

1. You asserted that Scottie's been a net negative on offense his entire career. Proven false.

2. You asserted BPM is merely a raw stat, not an advanced metric. Proven false.

3. You asserted that any metric that relies on box score data is not an advanced metric. Proven false.

4. You asserted that I valued and validated the use of preseason stats as an argument for a player’s progress (or lack thereof). Proven false.

5. Finally, you asserted that I had "no clue" where these stats derive from. Proven false.

You additionally asserted that Scottie's floor as a player is "pathetically low." I mean, barring some serious injury or a Ben Simmons like mid-career crisis, this is also obviously false. Good talk.

1. No it hasn’t been lol

2. lol okay buddy

3. Not what I said

4. Also not what I said

5. Proven correct

And your last point, I meant on a game to game basis. It’s quite clear you don’t read what I’m saying though.

Enjoy the season man.

[canz55]

Would a mod please close this thread? I'm begging you.

it's reasonable to want to trade barnes....he plays hard though

No it's not reasonable and it won't happen.

[MoneyBall]

Well look at that, you posted a bunch of evidence he is not a positive offensive player. He is at best, neutral.

You also conveniently ignored:

RAMP -1.3
MAMBA - 0.5

I wonder why, hmm?

Simply put - Barnes is not a positive offensive piece. And it is not really that surprising that a inefficient sub-20ppg guy who had the ball in his hands a lot is not loved in the advanced community.

I can't use MAMBA because it relies on box score data, right? Plus, it's still a totally niche metric at this point.

So just a quick recap:

1. You asserted that Scottie's been a net negative on offense his entire career. Proven false.

2. You asserted BPM is merely a raw stat, not an advanced metric. Proven false.

3. You asserted that any metric that relies on box score data is not an advanced metric. Proven false.

4. You asserted that I valued and validated the use of preseason stats as an argument for a player’s progress (or lack thereof). Proven false.

5. Finally, you asserted that I had "no clue" where these stats derive from. Proven false.

You additionally asserted that Scottie's floor as a player is "pathetically low." I mean, barring some serious injury or a Ben Simmons like mid-career crisis, this is also obviously false. Good talk.

1. No it hasn’t been lol

2. lol okay buddy

3. Not what I said

4. Also not what I said

5. Proven correct

And your last point, I meant on a game to game basis. It’s quite clear you don’t read what I’m saying though.

Enjoy the season man.

Can you tell me this: when you ask Google/Gemini the following:

"Is BPM a raw stat or an advanced metric in basketball?"

What answer does it give you?

[HiJiNX]

The interesting thing about Barnes is that even with his putrid offense last season he still had the highest positive impact didn’t he? If he just slightly sucks on offense he makes a jump. There’s a lot of room for him to grow lol. I think people are going to be surprised with how much his overall impact can still improve if he makes even a slight improvement on offense.

I think it’s a bit premature to say he’s not the best player on the team.

As usual, you get it.

[HiJiNX]

Would a mod please close this thread? I'm begging you.

No, this will be fun to come back to.

[Appostis]

Would a mod please close this thread? I'm begging you.

No, this will be fun to come back to.

Cheers to that.

[dTox]

Would a mod please close this thread? I'm begging you.

it's reasonable to want to trade barnes....he plays hard though

No it's not reasonable and it won't happen.

There's 22 pages of discussion on this thread, so people want to talk about it, it's a discussion forum at the end of the day.

[canada_dry]

"Before its too late!"

I see what you did there classic.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Spates]

I think he gained too much weight.

It certainly looks that way. After a quick Google search I found he was 225 at the draft combine, and he's listed at 237 now. But according to comments from Nurse, he put on 10lbs between the draft combine and his rookie season.

My takeaway is that I need to lose some weight.

But you then can't ask him to play C small ball and take on real C's with their height and weight if he drops weight. He will get injured quicker banging with those bigger bodies.

Even if he lost weight, he won't beat him man off the dribble as he isn't fluid or fast. I like to use the word "clunky".

Speaking for myself, I feel a lot quicker at 220 than I do at 235. Given Scottie's success primarily as a help defender rather than one-on-one defender, I'd wager quickness would be of greater benefit.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I saw that CMB is almost 10 lbs heavier than Scottie right now. He's going to be a truck with NBA weight training.

[NinjaBro]

"Before its too late!"

I see what you did there classic.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Son Goku 25]

I'm not worried about his talent. He'll make it work.

The big Q with Scottie has always been his behaviour for me. You hear from both Darko and Bobby these notions of 'the best version of Scottie.' That's because he loses focus, he quits on plays, he mopes on the court, takes ridiculous shots for his skill level. But the good Scottie is supportive of his teammates, preaching ball movement, trolling the other team, seeing a mismatch and immediately attacking it.

This is such a huge year because he doesn't have Masai running defense for him and pointing fingers at everyone else. And if they lose, he won't have Darko anymore, either.

My thoughts exactly. When he's "good Scottie" he's basically an all NBA caliber player esp in his prime I can see that.

[PushDaRock]

This would be pretty depressing if Sengun learned how to shoot 3's before Scottie lol

[CazOnReal]

The excuses are approaching Bargnani level.

His offense just never developed. Handle, shooting etc.

Scottie with a motor that shows up every game can be a good player. It's to bad his effort level is all over the place.

I'm still not sure where he fits on a good to great team.

If the right trade comes along. You move him.

People were critical of Bargnani from Day 1, this is completely revisionism.

[Thaddy]

Worst thing for this franchise was a top 5 pick. We blew up the team for this guy..

Raptors Org. didn't blew up the Team because of Scottie, they blew it up because it has reached its limits and it was expensive. Also the player wanted some fresh air and wanted to compete. The Raptors-Leftover-Core had their peak years before they left.

As good as Siakam, OG and Fred were they weren't superstars. We tried to push for P to be one but he fell short and he let it get to his head.

I don't know if Barnes is that guy. We don't have that superstar talent and it might be the reason we go without a championship for several decades. We can't waste too much time on a single player. The max should be 5 years.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Trade Scottie immediately.

[MoneyBall]

Trade Scottie immediately.

Can't, it's too late.

[wegotthabeet]

A lot of really bad takes in this thread. I mean like really bad. Horrible even.

Hope you guys are ready to get it thrown back at you all year. Almost none of you actually watch basketball.

[PushDaRock]

Trade Scottie immediately.

Do it!!! Peak value right now for this season

[Jeremy Lin 7]

22/6/9 on 9/14 shooting and no threes.

Yeah, he's not Kawhi Leonard. Gotta trade him. Can't 1 on 1 ISO and all his points off fast breaks and easy shots.

Did I do that right?