Pistons related Free Agency Thread

[tmorgan]

We weren’t anywhere near a top ten defense with Ausar limited and Ivey playing starter minutes. Context DOES matter, and that’s the context.

True, there’s no data from last year to really parse out the absence of Ivey and the emergence of Ausar. But there is common sense and watching them play. One is a hyper-intense defender that constantly causes disruption — and Ron Holland is a lesser version of the same thing. The other, Ivey, has trouble with screen navigation, somehow uses his athleticism to get himself over-committed and out of position while playing his man, and doesn’t do much of anything away from the ball that slows the offense. It’s completely night and day in terms of results.

The future of this team is Cade-Ron-Ausar and two bigs TBD. That’s Pistons basketball.

[zeebneeb]

You can't have all-stars at every position, so that means you can't have all-nba defenders at every position either.

This whole conversation, reminds me of RIP. Constantly harangued for his defense, but slowly became a stout defender, and one season actually got DPOY votes.

I'm not saying that Ivey/Duren are the future either, but I'm not writing them off, which some here are already doing. That's ridiculous.

[Crymson]

We weren’t anywhere near a top ten defense with Ausar limited and Ivey playing starter minutes. Context DOES matter, and that’s the context.

That was also the period in which Duren, playing at the most impactful defensive position, was still outright phoning it in on defense and was therefore providing truly awful rather than merely bad defensive value. I think it follows that replacing Ivey -- whom I'd call somewhere in the realm of average defensively last season -- with an elite defender and having your starting center decide that he's going to stop treating his defensive possessions as a time to relax before he goes back on offense is going to improve your defense quite a bit.

As for Ivey's offense, we just don't have data.

[BadMofoPimp]

I like Ivey n all, but if they could flip him for a solid Big plus and resign Beasely, that would make this team better than last years with Ivey out if not a possible contender.

[tmorgan]

We weren’t anywhere near a top ten defense with Ausar limited and Ivey playing starter minutes. Context DOES matter, and that’s the context.

That was also the period in which Duren, playing at the most impactful defensive position, was still outright phoning it in on defense and was therefore providing truly awful rather than merely bad defensive value. I think it follows that replacing Ivey -- whom I'd call somewhere in the realm of average defensively last season -- with an elite defender and having your starting center decide that he's going to stop treating his defensive possessions as a time to relax before he goes back on offense is going to improve your defense quite a bit.

As for Ivey's offense, we just don't have data.

“Average” is easily the most optimistic assessment I’ve seen from anyone on Ivey’s defense. Got any concrete reason (data) to believe this? If it’s just eye test, our eyes are seeing different things.

[Crymson]

“Average” is easily the most optimistic assessment I’ve seen from anyone on Ivey’s defense. Got any concrete reason (data) to believe this? If it’s just eye test, our eyes are seeing different things.

I said in the realm of average. And yeah, eye test.

Whatever the case, Duren's defensive impact makes Ivey's look positively rosy by comparison (granted, the impact ceiling is substantially lower for the latter). And whereas Ivey being respectably on the lower side of average is acceptable if he produces offensively, the same is very untrue of Jalen.

[Kalamazoo317]

My concern about Ivey is that he might have average offense. We need to see a big step up for him in terms of finishing at the rim this season for him to be worth retaining longterm, imo (cutting down on turnovers and showing the hot outside shooting last season wasn't a fluke would help too). He has elite speed, but he has to be able to pay that off for it to be a useful skill.

[bstein14]

My concern about Ivey is that he might have average offense. We need to see a big step up for him in terms of finishing at the rim this season for him to be worth retaining longterm, imo (cutting down on turnovers and showing the hot outside shooting last season wasn't a fluke would help too). He has elite speed, but he has to be able to pay that off for it to be a useful skill.

One of the more surprising stats for me when I looked up the end of year numbers, both Cade and Ivey are pretty inefficient in transition. You'd think with our youth, Cade's size, Ivey's athleticism and speed, etc we'd be better suited to run and gun. They are both near the bottom of the league when you look at PPP for players who get at least 4 transition attempts per game.

Trae Young 0.89 PPP
Cade 0.97 PPP
Ivey 0.97 PPP
LeMelo Ball 0.97 PPP
DeArron Fox 0.97 PPP

Those are the bottom 5 in the league out of players who get 4+ attempts.

Ivey in ISO 0.63 PPP (which is terrible) but only 1.4 attempts per game.
Ivey as pick and roll ball handler 0.83 PPP

The numbers actually show Ivey is pretty poor with the ball in his hands. He is at his best in efficiency as an off ball cutter and spot up shooter last year... by a pretty wide margin.

[Cowology]

I've been an Ivey skeptic from the jump, but he's got some tools. I don't think the outside shooting is a fluke.

Last season Ivey took 5.1 3pa in 29.9 mpg. He shot 40.9% on those attempts.

Beasley took 9.3 3pa in 27.8 mpg while shooting 41.6%.

I'm thinking his 3pa go way up this season and he's going to wind up looking like Beasley with elite athleticism, which is pretty OK. His open court ability with the other athletes on this roster is going to be a problem. And IF he develops a floater or some other signature move at/near the rim he'll be a real weapon.

But right now he just needs to maintain his efficiency, up his volume and cut down on the stupid turnovers.

[the_l_train]

Curious if we look at signing any of the PGs who have been waived in the last week. I know some of these guys are going to the G-League affiliate, but I would take a flyer on any of these guys on the cheap:

Kobe Bufkin
Dalano Banton
Spencer Dinwiddie
Jared Butler


(No Cam Payne, please)

[chrbal]

Curious if we look at signing any of the PGs who have been waived in the last week. I know some of these guys are going to the G-League affiliate, but I would take a flyer on any of these guys on the cheap:

Kobe Bufkin
Dalano Banton
Spencer Dinwiddie
Jared Butler


(No Cam Payne, please)

I’d like Banton on a g league deal, interesting player but not a good shooter. I wouldn’t spend a spot on him at this point

Bufkin, I feel like he’s better off going to a team that has a bigger need for him. I don’t think he’s better for us than any of the two way contracts.

Dinwiddie, it kind of makes too much sense. Not saying he’s amazing, but he at least gives us a solid vet who could help fill in and be depth. Charlotte cutting him is them just being an odd organization.

Butler would be a good fit as well. Plus you add a guy with mild success/experience that’s only 25

[theBigLip]

Surprised Bufkin hasn’t done better. Getting stuck behind Tre didn’t help. How do we rank Sasser, Jenkins and Bufkin?

[the_l_train]

Surprised Bufkin hasn’t done better. Getting stuck behind Tre didn’t help. How do we rank Sasser, Jenkins and Bufkin?

Everyone here irrationally hates Sasser but somehow like Jenkins. Drives me nuts.

Haven’t watched enough Bufkin to give a true take on him honestly.

Sasser gonna surprise some people this year, book it. He’s a hooper and will prove people wrong if JB gives him a shot to backfill Iveys absence.

[tmorgan]

Surprised Bufkin hasn’t done better. Getting stuck behind Tre didn’t help. How do we rank Sasser, Jenkins and Bufkin?

Everyone here irrationally hates Sasser but somehow like Jenkins. Drives me nuts.

Haven’t watched enough Bufkin to give a true take on him honestly.

Sasser gonna surprise some people this year, book it. He’s a hooper and will prove people wrong if JB gives him a shot to backfill Iveys absence.

I don’t like either, but one is a PG and one isn’t.

I do think Sasser will do pretty well as the backup SG, hopefully playing a lot with Cade. He can shoot and defend, although his size is an issue.

[chrbal]

Surprised Bufkin hasn’t done better. Getting stuck behind Tre didn’t help. How do we rank Sasser, Jenkins and Bufkin?

Or injured, he’s had bad luck there.

Only other thing I “know” about him is some random person is trying to link us to him

https://soaringdownsouth.com/hawks-may-have-indirectly-gifted-conference-rival-much-needed-guard

I don’t hate is a two way, but it doesn’t really make sense for the Pistons.