OT: NFL 25 Draft and Beyond Thread

[TerrenceClarke]

Me showing the receipts that I said Daboll and Schoen was a terrible choice from day one.




They so trash DJ might be the MVP of the league after leaving them.

Yeah but you also said DJ was trash too

You were right though about these clowns, I tried to give them a chance but that sh*t yesterday should be the end for both of them. If I'm Mara, I take Dart, Nabers, Carter etc away from them and send them into the unemployment line. Too bad Pittsburgh isn't stupid enough to let Tomlin walk.

He was trash while he was here. That’s not subjective.

But as we can see now. A lot of it was the Giants FO and him also maturing after he left.

Nobody can ever say DJ was a good Giants QB. It’s like saying Geno Smith was a good Jets QB.

My point really is that Daniel Jones and even Barkley seen success leaving this garbage behind.

[TerrenceClarke]

Did Gettleman draft a Super Bowl combo and Schoen and Daboll **** that up?



The team that Getty left them in retrospect wasn’t that bad.They just could not do better with what was left, cause they worst than even him, who we thought was terrible his damn self.

The best players on this team is still drafted by him after all these years in Thomas and Lawrence.

[GONYK]

If they got Dart right, then that's all that really matters for this franchise.

[Synciere]

If they got Dart right, then that's all that really matters for this franchise.

[MrDollarBills]

Teams are signing kickers off the street that are knocking down 60 yarders with ease while Dipsh*t One and Two signs a Rutgers reject who can't make low pressure PATs.

I want to kick Daboll in his ozempic injection site.

Why do you keep blaming Daboll for the kicker being unable to kick?

Because it's his job and Schoen's to have a kicker a that can kick!! He's the head coach overseeing all three phases.

Like this is a reoccurring issue under his watch and it just leads to my thinking that the dude doesn't pay attention to any detail outside of offense.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

?t=YdX7vRC9Xx4N30VTCX-Y7w&s=19

Seeing this, it's almost impressive how bad he chokes under the slightest pressure in a real game

This is like Mitch nailing three pointers in his summer workouts

[MrDollarBills]

If they got Dart right, then that's all that really matters for this franchise.

I agree.

However, Daboll may have given us Dart, but I don't think Dart should be married to Daboll. I will let the season play out but Sunday was so bad that I don't blame Schoen if he went into Mara's office yesterday morning and threw him and Shane Bowen under the bus under the rationale that a better more experienced coach would take this collection of talent to the next level.

[GONYK]

Teams are signing kickers off the street that are knocking down 60 yarders with ease while Dipsh*t One and Two signs a Rutgers reject who can't make low pressure PATs.

I want to kick Daboll in his ozempic injection site.

Why do you keep blaming Daboll for the kicker being unable to kick?

Because it's his job and Schoen's to have a kicker a that can kick!! He's the head coach overseeing all three phases.

Like this is a reoccurring issue under his watch and it just leads to my thinking that the dude doesn't pay attention to any detail outside of offense.

You're my guy MDB but, respectfully, it's literally not. At what point is a player responsible for his own performance? This is a guy who can make a FG from 65 yards out barefoot. If he can't hit a PAT in a game, that's on him and nobody else really.

To be fair to Schoen, he does value kicking. That's why he kept Gano instead of cutting him and saving $3M of cap that we really could have used. Gano just has Ntlikina nuts and can't stay healthy at his age.

None of this falls on Daboll though. Daboll doesn't scout or sign players, isn't the special teams coach and certainly isn't a kicker. I sincerely doubt Daboll pounded the table and said "Get me Jude McAtamney!!!!"

The only reason I'm harping on this is because, truthfully, Daboll and Kafka put together a pretty masterful offensive game plan against the best defense in the league and Dart executed it to 99% perfection against Nik Bonito and Patrick Surtain with nothing but Skattebo and WanDale Robinson as threats. We didn't have penalties really, until the very end either.

The loss really hurt, but I think its very important to acknowledge that there was a lot to like and the reasons we didn't walk away with a win mainly falls on bad luck (kicker, injuries to Holland and Adebo) and bad defensive coaching (which was probably impacted by the injuries to the best players in our secondary).

Daboll, at least on Sunday, was the least of our problems and I think that's an important distinction to make when evaluating his job at the end of the year.

[mpharris36]

Why do you keep blaming Daboll for the kicker being unable to kick?

Because it's his job and Schoen's to have a kicker a that can kick!! He's the head coach overseeing all three phases.

Like this is a reoccurring issue under his watch and it just leads to my thinking that the dude doesn't pay attention to any detail outside of offense.

You're my guy MDB but, respectfully, it's literally not. At what point is a player responsible for his own performance? This is a guy who can make a FG from 65 yards out barefoot. If he can't hit a PAT in a game, that's on him and nobody else really.

To be fair to Schoen, he does value kicking. That's why he kept Gano instead of cutting him and saving $3M of cap that we really could have used. Gano just has Ntlikina nuts and can't stay healthy at his age.

None of this falls on Daboll though. Daboll doesn't scout or sign players, isn't the special teams coach and certainly isn't a kicker. I sincerely doubt Daboll pounded the table and said "Get me Jude McAtamney!!!!"

The only reason I'm harping on this is because, truthfully, Daboll and Kafka put together a pretty masterful offensive game plan against the best defense in the league and Dart executed it to 99% perfection against Nik Bonito and Patrick Surtain with nothing but Skattebo and WanDale Robinson as threats. We didn't have penalties really, until the very end either.

The loss really hurt, but I think its very important to acknowledge that there was a lot to like and the reasons we didn't walk away with a win mainly falls on bad luck (kicker, injuries to Holland and Adebo) and bad defensive coaching (which was probably impacted by the injuries to the best players in our secondary).

Daboll, at least on Sunday, was the least of our problems.

I agree on the top to an extent. How did Schoen and Daboll approve this guy to kick though. Apparently he was benched his senior season at Rutgers for sucking. And they clearly don't trust him to hit anything over 45 yards. I just don't see how they brought in other kickers and this guy one of the job.

I still don't think Daboll is the least of our problems on Sunday. Him and Kafka's play calling down the stretch was atrocious. Asking Dart to throw on that down or at least not telling him to just take a sack if he doesn't see anything was bad. We needed to use the Broncos last timeout and make them go the length of the field. To put Dart (a rookie) in a spot where he can make a big mistake is bad coaching IMO. There was 5 minutes left. You have to run the ball or keep the clock moving in that spot.

Daboll and the coaching need some blame for how bad they mismanaged the 4th qtr. Yes Bowen was terrible, yes our secondary injuries were killers, yes the kicker sucked.

And its coming out that Daboll was the reason they kept Bowen instead of firing him last year (which I guess Schoen and Mara) sounded like they wanted to do. So any struggles with Bowen should be put on Daboll since that was his call for his coaching staff.

But even with all that...with proper end game management by Daboll/Kafka we still win that game.

[GONYK]

Because it's his job and Schoen's to have a kicker a that can kick!! He's the head coach overseeing all three phases.

Like this is a reoccurring issue under his watch and it just leads to my thinking that the dude doesn't pay attention to any detail outside of offense.

You're my guy MDB but, respectfully, it's literally not. At what point is a player responsible for his own performance? This is a guy who can make a FG from 65 yards out barefoot. If he can't hit a PAT in a game, that's on him and nobody else really.

To be fair to Schoen, he does value kicking. That's why he kept Gano instead of cutting him and saving $3M of cap that we really could have used. Gano just has Ntlikina nuts and can't stay healthy at his age.

None of this falls on Daboll though. Daboll doesn't scout or sign players, isn't the special teams coach and certainly isn't a kicker. I sincerely doubt Daboll pounded the table and said "Get me Jude McAtamney!!!!"

The only reason I'm harping on this is because, truthfully, Daboll and Kafka put together a pretty masterful offensive game plan against the best defense in the league and Dart executed it to 99% perfection against Nik Bonito and Patrick Surtain with nothing but Skattebo and WanDale Robinson as threats. We didn't have penalties really, until the very end either.

The loss really hurt, but I think its very important to acknowledge that there was a lot to like and the reasons we didn't walk away with a win mainly falls on bad luck (kicker, injuries to Holland and Adebo) and bad defensive coaching (which was probably impacted by the injuries to the best players in our secondary).

Daboll, at least on Sunday, was the least of our problems.

I agree on the top to an extent. How did Schoen and Daboll approve this guy to kick though. Apparently he was benched his senior season at Rutgers for sucking. And they clearly don't trust him to hit anything over 45 yards. I just don't see how they brought in other kickers and this guy one of the job.

What do you mean "approve"? Daboll is given a kicker. How do you evaluate a kicker outside of watching him kick at your facility? We brought in at least 2 kickers and Jude "won". At the same time, we didn't trust him to kick anything but PATs, which he has to kick. It's his fault he sucks and now its on Schoen to find some other options.

I still don't think Daboll is the least of our problems on Sunday. Him and Kafka's play calling down the stretch was atrocious. Asking Dart to throw on that down or at least not telling him to just take a sack if he doesn't see anything was bad. We needed to use the Broncos last timeout and make them go the length of the field. To put Dart (a rookie) in a spot where he can make a big mistake is bad coaching IMO. There was 5 minutes left. You have to run the ball or keep the clock moving in that spot.

Daboll and the coaching need some blame for how bad they mismanaged the 4th qtr. Yes Bowen was terrible, yes our secondary injuries were killers, yes the kicker sucked.

Well we needed that first down to ice the game and the play that was designed worked. Johnson was coming open across the middle. Schlottman didn't hold the block and Dart's legs were hit when he tried to step up in the pocket, which is why the throw was off. Again, Dart should have taken the sack, but that is hindsight and again was the QB's call. The play worked. This is sort of like blaming the coach for Dart not sliding.

If your argument was that we should have run the ball again to ensure the possession runs time and ends with a punt, I can totally understand that and agree with it. That's fair. But if that play was incomplete and we punted, it would have been fine. It's just that it was a pick.

And its coming out that Daboll was the reason they kept Bowen instead of firing him last year (which I guess Schoen and Mara) sounded like they wanted to do. So any struggles with Bowen should be put on Daboll since that was his call for his coaching staff.

But even with all that...with proper end game management by Daboll/Kafka we still win that game.

I didn't see the Daboll/Bowen thing. What is the reporting?

[mpharris36]

You're my guy MDB but, respectfully, it's literally not. At what point is a player responsible for his own performance? This is a guy who can make a FG from 65 yards out barefoot. If he can't hit a PAT in a game, that's on him and nobody else really.

To be fair to Schoen, he does value kicking. That's why he kept Gano instead of cutting him and saving $3M of cap that we really could have used. Gano just has Ntlikina nuts and can't stay healthy at his age.

None of this falls on Daboll though. Daboll doesn't scout or sign players, isn't the special teams coach and certainly isn't a kicker. I sincerely doubt Daboll pounded the table and said "Get me Jude McAtamney!!!!"

The only reason I'm harping on this is because, truthfully, Daboll and Kafka put together a pretty masterful offensive game plan against the best defense in the league and Dart executed it to 99% perfection against Nik Bonito and Patrick Surtain with nothing but Skattebo and WanDale Robinson as threats. We didn't have penalties really, until the very end either.

The loss really hurt, but I think its very important to acknowledge that there was a lot to like and the reasons we didn't walk away with a win mainly falls on bad luck (kicker, injuries to Holland and Adebo) and bad defensive coaching (which was probably impacted by the injuries to the best players in our secondary).

Daboll, at least on Sunday, was the least of our problems.

I agree on the top to an extent. How did Schoen and Daboll approve this guy to kick though. Apparently he was benched his senior season at Rutgers for sucking. And they clearly don't trust him to hit anything over 45 yards. I just don't see how they brought in other kickers and this guy one of the job.

What do you mean "approve"? Daboll is given a kicker. How do you evaluate a kicker outside of watching him kick at your facility? We brought in at least 2 kickers and Jude "won". At the same time, we didn't trust him to kick anything but PATs, which he has to kick. It's his fault he sucks and now its on Schoen to find some other options.

I still don't think Daboll is the least of our problems on Sunday. Him and Kafka's play calling down the stretch was atrocious. Asking Dart to throw on that down or at least not telling him to just take a sack if he doesn't see anything was bad. We needed to use the Broncos last timeout and make them go the length of the field. To put Dart (a rookie) in a spot where he can make a big mistake is bad coaching IMO. There was 5 minutes left. You have to run the ball or keep the clock moving in that spot.

Daboll and the coaching need some blame for how bad they mismanaged the 4th qtr. Yes Bowen was terrible, yes our secondary injuries were killers, yes the kicker sucked.

Well we needed that first down to ice the game and the play that was designed worked. Johnson was coming open across the middle. Schlottman didn't hold the block and Dart's legs were hit when he tried to step up in the pocket, which is why the throw was off. Again, Dart should have taken the sack, but that is hindsight and again was the QB's call. The play worked. This is sort of like blaming the coach for Dart not sliding.

If your argument was that we should have run the ball again to ensure the possession runs time and ends with a punt, I can totally understand that and agree with it. That's fair. But if that play was incomplete and we punted, it would have been fine. It's just that it was a pick.

And its coming out that Daboll was the reason they kept Bowen instead of firing him last year (which I guess Schoen and Mara) sounded like they wanted to do. So any struggles with Bowen should be put on Daboll since that was his call for his coaching staff.

But even with all that...with proper end game management by Daboll/Kafka we still win that game.

I didn't see the Daboll/Bowen thing. What is the reporting?

Read on Twitter

?t=SqDV5sfO5Pr2VwhklREj_A&s=19

And yes, as for the play call, instead of putting a rookie in a spot to make a fatal mistake...it made more sense to run and ensure the last timeout was taken.

Hell they were super conservative for 2 straight possessions...run + run into 2 loaded fronts...and then put Dart in a bad spot on back to back 3rd downs to try and make a play.

As far as the kicker...the kicker sucking has to go on someone because he wasn't even a good kicker in college. I agree that mostly on Schoen but I assume Daboll has a say on some of the roster decisions and is probably out there with all the kickers evaluating them. They must have been in agreement that this was the guy...who clearly sucks.

[GONYK]

I agree on the top to an extent. How did Schoen and Daboll approve this guy to kick though. Apparently he was benched his senior season at Rutgers for sucking. And they clearly don't trust him to hit anything over 45 yards. I just don't see how they brought in other kickers and this guy one of the job.

What do you mean "approve"? Daboll is given a kicker. How do you evaluate a kicker outside of watching him kick at your facility? We brought in at least 2 kickers and Jude "won". At the same time, we didn't trust him to kick anything but PATs, which he has to kick. It's his fault he sucks and now its on Schoen to find some other options.

I still don't think Daboll is the least of our problems on Sunday. Him and Kafka's play calling down the stretch was atrocious. Asking Dart to throw on that down or at least not telling him to just take a sack if he doesn't see anything was bad. We needed to use the Broncos last timeout and make them go the length of the field. To put Dart (a rookie) in a spot where he can make a big mistake is bad coaching IMO. There was 5 minutes left. You have to run the ball or keep the clock moving in that spot.

Daboll and the coaching need some blame for how bad they mismanaged the 4th qtr. Yes Bowen was terrible, yes our secondary injuries were killers, yes the kicker sucked.

Well we needed that first down to ice the game and the play that was designed worked. Johnson was coming open across the middle. Schlottman didn't hold the block and Dart's legs were hit when he tried to step up in the pocket, which is why the throw was off. Again, Dart should have taken the sack, but that is hindsight and again was the QB's call. The play worked. This is sort of like blaming the coach for Dart not sliding.

If your argument was that we should have run the ball again to ensure the possession runs time and ends with a punt, I can totally understand that and agree with it. That's fair. But if that play was incomplete and we punted, it would have been fine. It's just that it was a pick.

And its coming out that Daboll was the reason they kept Bowen instead of firing him last year (which I guess Schoen and Mara) sounded like they wanted to do. So any struggles with Bowen should be put on Daboll since that was his call for his coaching staff.

But even with all that...with proper end game management by Daboll/Kafka we still win that game.

I didn't see the Daboll/Bowen thing. What is the reporting?

Read on Twitter

?t=SqDV5sfO5Pr2VwhklREj_A&s=19

And yes, as for the play call, instead of putting a rookie in a spot to make a fatal mistake...it made more sense to run and ensure the last timeout was taken.

Hell they were super conservative for 2 straight possessions...run + run into 2 loaded fronts...and then put Dart in a bad spot on back to back 3rd downs to try and make a play.

As far as the kicker...the kicker sucking has to go on someone because he wasn't even a good kicker in college. I agree that mostly on Schoen but I assume Daboll has a say on some of the roster decisions and is probably out there with all the kickers evaluating them. They must have been in agreement that this was the guy...who clearly sucks.

Well, if this is true, then yea Daboll owns the defense too. I concede that.

As far as the kicker, the only thing Daboll could evaluate was whether McAtamney was better than Yunghoe Koo. I don't think we brought anyone else in and that's not on Daboll. The same way I don't blame Judge to having to play Mike Glennon.

As far as the drive in question that led to the pick, if you're saying that 1 drive should wipe out 30+ points against the Denver defense, I don't agree. It came at the worst possible time, but it's not why we lost the game. Especially when we scored on the drive after.

[mpharris36]

What do you mean "approve"? Daboll is given a kicker. How do you evaluate a kicker outside of watching him kick at your facility? We brought in at least 2 kickers and Jude "won". At the same time, we didn't trust him to kick anything but PATs, which he has to kick. It's his fault he sucks and now its on Schoen to find some other options.



Well we needed that first down to ice the game and the play that was designed worked. Johnson was coming open across the middle. Schlottman didn't hold the block and Dart's legs were hit when he tried to step up in the pocket, which is why the throw was off. Again, Dart should have taken the sack, but that is hindsight and again was the QB's call. The play worked. This is sort of like blaming the coach for Dart not sliding.

If your argument was that we should have run the ball again to ensure the possession runs time and ends with a punt, I can totally understand that and agree with it. That's fair. But if that play was incomplete and we punted, it would have been fine. It's just that it was a pick.



I didn't see the Daboll/Bowen thing. What is the reporting?

Read on Twitter

?t=SqDV5sfO5Pr2VwhklREj_A&s=19

And yes, as for the play call, instead of putting a rookie in a spot to make a fatal mistake...it made more sense to run and ensure the last timeout was taken.

Hell they were super conservative for 2 straight possessions...run + run into 2 loaded fronts...and then put Dart in a bad spot on back to back 3rd downs to try and make a play.

As far as the kicker...the kicker sucking has to go on someone because he wasn't even a good kicker in college. I agree that mostly on Schoen but I assume Daboll has a say on some of the roster decisions and is probably out there with all the kickers evaluating them. They must have been in agreement that this was the guy...who clearly sucks.

Well, if this is true, then yea Daboll owns the defense too. I concede that.

As far as the kicker, the only thing Daboll could evaluate was whether McAtamney was better than Yunghoe Koo. I don't think we brought anyone else in and that's not on Daboll. The same way I don't blame Judge to having to play Mike Glennon.

As far as the drive in question that led to the pick, if you're saying that 1 drive should wipe out 30+ points against the Denver defense, I don't agree. It came at the worst possible time, but it's not why we lost the game. Especially when we scored on the drive after.

Ultimately winning and losing does come down the HC and or QB. HC usually builds his staff...and if this case Bowen is a weak link then yes I still ultimately put that on Daboll.

Schoen has had plenty of misses but if we are going by Daboll he would have picked Dart at #3 and Schoen should get credit for still getting Carter and finding a way to get Dart later. I don't think we are losing now because of a lack of talent.

The kicking situation falls a lot on schoen as well. Bringing back an old kicker with injury histories and never investing in a kicker with say one of your 6th or 7th round picks is just wrong. We have cost ourselves too many times with a shotty kicking situation.

But ultimately Schoen has fixed the oline, the defense has talent (yes losing the two best guys in the secondary clearly changed things) we need more depth there. Keeping Banks on the roster just because he is a 1st round pick is stupid because he sucks.

But I don't think we lost the Saints game or Broncos game because of talent. So then that has to go on the coaching and yes the players but the players are making mistakes and not finishing games which the coaching could be a lot better.

I also think a lot of our offensive success is Dart improvising then say us having a great offensive scheme. The first two TD's vs eagles were all Dart scrambling and running or scrambling and finding Wandale.

The first TD vs Broncos just Dart scrambling around then finding Bellinger breaking free. The last TD drive seemed like it had no purpose. Sure we scored but so much of it was just Dart just dropping back and heaving the ball down the field for some high risk passes. There was plenty of time with a timeout to design a solid drive.

I don't know if they aren't trying to overcomplicate things for Dart but the offenses success seems more weighed to Dart (mahomes like ability to keep plays alive) then actually use scheming guys open. Maybe I'm being overly harsh. I just cant fathom how you can blow that type of game.

There were a couple times Daboll also didn't use a timeout (once Dart got a delay of game on a crucial down). And another time on last drive with Burns limping up the field clearly not going to make it back onside. We had a timeout and didn't use it...gave Broncos key more 5 yards.

I think Daboll is showing enough with Dart as a good coordinator and QB coach developing him. He leaves a lot to be desired in terms of managing in game decisions. I'm so use to Coughlin flawless in game HC ability.

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

?t=SqDV5sfO5Pr2VwhklREj_A&s=19

And yes, as for the play call, instead of putting a rookie in a spot to make a fatal mistake...it made more sense to run and ensure the last timeout was taken.

Hell they were super conservative for 2 straight possessions...run + run into 2 loaded fronts...and then put Dart in a bad spot on back to back 3rd downs to try and make a play.

As far as the kicker...the kicker sucking has to go on someone because he wasn't even a good kicker in college. I agree that mostly on Schoen but I assume Daboll has a say on some of the roster decisions and is probably out there with all the kickers evaluating them. They must have been in agreement that this was the guy...who clearly sucks.

Well, if this is true, then yea Daboll owns the defense too. I concede that.

As far as the kicker, the only thing Daboll could evaluate was whether McAtamney was better than Yunghoe Koo. I don't think we brought anyone else in and that's not on Daboll. The same way I don't blame Judge to having to play Mike Glennon.

As far as the drive in question that led to the pick, if you're saying that 1 drive should wipe out 30+ points against the Denver defense, I don't agree. It came at the worst possible time, but it's not why we lost the game. Especially when we scored on the drive after.

Ultimately winning and losing does come down the HC and or QB. HC usually builds his staff...and if this case Bowen is a weak link then yes I still ultimately put that on Daboll.

Schoen has had plenty of misses but if we are going by Daboll he would have picked Dart at #3 and Schoen should get credit for still getting Carter and finding a way to get Dart later. I don't think we are losing now because of a lack of talent.

The kicking situation falls a lot on schoen as well. Bringing back an old kicker with injury histories and never investing in a kicker with say one of your 6th or 7th round picks is just wrong. We have cost ourselves too many times with a shotty kicking situation.

But ultimately Schoen has fixed the oline, the defense has talent (yes losing the two best guys in the secondary clearly changed things) we need more depth there. Keeping Banks on the roster just because he is a 1st round pick is stupid because he sucks.

But I don't think we lost the Saints game or Broncos game because of talent. So then that has to go on the coaching and yes the players but the players are making mistakes and not finishing games which the coaching could be a lot better.

I also think a lot of our offensive success is Dart improvising then say us having a great offensive scheme. The first two TD's vs eagles were all Dart scrambling and running or scrambling and finding Wandale.

The first TD vs Broncos just Dart scrambling around then finding Bellinger breaking free. The last TD drive seemed like it had no purpose. Sure we scored but so much of it was just Dart just dropping back and heaving the ball down the field for some high risk passes. There was plenty of time with a timeout to design a solid drive.

I don't know if they aren't trying to overcomplicate things for Dart but the offenses success seems more weighed to Dart (mahomes like ability to keep plays alive) then actually use scheming guys open. Maybe I'm being overly harsh. I just cant fathom how you can blow that type of game.

There were a couple times Daboll also didn't use a timeout (once Dart got a delay of game on a crucial down). And another time on last drive with Burns limping up the field clearly not going to make it back onside. We had a timeout and didn't use it...gave Broncos key more 5 yards.

I think Daboll is showing enough with Dart as a good coordinator and QB coach developing him. He leaves a lot to be desired in terms of managing in game decisions. I'm so use to Coughlin flawless in game HC ability.

Yea, we aren't disagreeing, but everything you said has the team trending upwards, even if we think there are improvements that can be made. I guess that's my larger point. The emotion of the collapse is kind of causing the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater when looking at how this team has performed over the last month.

Things aren't perfect, but there are some aspects that are starting to come into focus.

[mpharris36]

Well, if this is true, then yea Daboll owns the defense too. I concede that.

As far as the kicker, the only thing Daboll could evaluate was whether McAtamney was better than Yunghoe Koo. I don't think we brought anyone else in and that's not on Daboll. The same way I don't blame Judge to having to play Mike Glennon.

As far as the drive in question that led to the pick, if you're saying that 1 drive should wipe out 30+ points against the Denver defense, I don't agree. It came at the worst possible time, but it's not why we lost the game. Especially when we scored on the drive after.

Ultimately winning and losing does come down the HC and or QB. HC usually builds his staff...and if this case Bowen is a weak link then yes I still ultimately put that on Daboll.

Schoen has had plenty of misses but if we are going by Daboll he would have picked Dart at #3 and Schoen should get credit for still getting Carter and finding a way to get Dart later. I don't think we are losing now because of a lack of talent.

The kicking situation falls a lot on schoen as well. Bringing back an old kicker with injury histories and never investing in a kicker with say one of your 6th or 7th round picks is just wrong. We have cost ourselves too many times with a shotty kicking situation.

But ultimately Schoen has fixed the oline, the defense has talent (yes losing the two best guys in the secondary clearly changed things) we need more depth there. Keeping Banks on the roster just because he is a 1st round pick is stupid because he sucks.

But I don't think we lost the Saints game or Broncos game because of talent. So then that has to go on the coaching and yes the players but the players are making mistakes and not finishing games which the coaching could be a lot better.

I also think a lot of our offensive success is Dart improvising then say us having a great offensive scheme. The first two TD's vs eagles were all Dart scrambling and running or scrambling and finding Wandale.

The first TD vs Broncos just Dart scrambling around then finding Bellinger breaking free. The last TD drive seemed like it had no purpose. Sure we scored but so much of it was just Dart just dropping back and heaving the ball down the field for some high risk passes. There was plenty of time with a timeout to design a solid drive.

I don't know if they aren't trying to overcomplicate things for Dart but the offenses success seems more weighed to Dart (mahomes like ability to keep plays alive) then actually use scheming guys open. Maybe I'm being overly harsh. I just cant fathom how you can blow that type of game.

There were a couple times Daboll also didn't use a timeout (once Dart got a delay of game on a crucial down). And another time on last drive with Burns limping up the field clearly not going to make it back onside. We had a timeout and didn't use it...gave Broncos key more 5 yards.

I think Daboll is showing enough with Dart as a good coordinator and QB coach developing him. He leaves a lot to be desired in terms of managing in game decisions. I'm so use to Coughlin flawless in game HC ability.

Yea, we aren't disagreeing, but everything you said has the team trending upwards, even if we think there are improvements that can be made. I guess that's my larger point. The emotion of the collapse is kind of causing the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater when looking at how this team has performed over the last month.

Things aren't perfect, but there are some aspects that are starting to come into focus.

Yes, true I think we are roughly in agreement. Things are certainly turning upwards. Having Dart on a rookie deal now puts us in a position to win nearly every game if we play well. No more games that we can't win which is a huge improvement. That is what getting the QB right does to a franchise.

The over arching issue still remains though next year ect do we have confidence for example Daboll is the right guy to get us where we need to go. Still I have serious questions.

I firmly believe at least right now. The easy fix is firing Bowen and replacing him and most likely Schoen and Daboll are back because they got Dart right which is ultimately what matters.

Schoen certainly has his issues - Neal, Banks, JMS, Nubin have looked terrible and all are premium draft picks.

But then Nabers/Dart/Scatt/Tracy...even a 4th round pick of Theo has some promise. Wonder if they will eventually get Mbow a look because he looks like he can be decent.

We probably have another highish pick coming up with WR/LB/secondary needs. But you can obviously see a pathway where this team is a playoff team as soon as next year.

[mpharris36]

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I know the sack numbers aren't there but he's having an outstanding season.

[2010]

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[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

this was obvious

[TerrenceClarke]

If they got Dart right, then that's all that really matters for this franchise.

Nah.

4 years of suck ….is 4 years of suck. I would not give a **** if he was all pro.

Being bad at your job, but you do one thing right still means you bad at your Job.

What matters for this franchise is a GM and Coach who can bat above league avg.

How many times have we seen a good QB surrounded by a garbage team and a trash Coach. To many times to count.

What matters for this franchise is getting a better GM and Coach.

Plain and simple.

We have been repeating this cycle for like 10 years.

Mara can easily do it again on the next tandem.

[GONYK]

If they got Dart right, then that's all that really matters for this franchise.

Nah.

4 years of suck ….is 4 years of suck. I would not give a **** if he was all pro.

Being bad at your job, but you do one thing right still means you bad at your Job.

What matters for this franchise is a GM and Coach who can bat above league avg.

How many times have we seen a good QB surrounded by a garbage team and a trash Coach. To many times to count.

What matters for this franchise is getting a better GM and Coach.

Plain and simple.

We have been repeating this cycle for like 10 years.

Mara can easily do it again on the next tandem.

I didn't say anything about Schoen and Daboll.

But it's not really debatable that having a difference maker at QB on a rookie contract with the NFL's cap structure is pretty much the biggest competitive advantage in sports. Definitely in the NFL.

If Dart proves to be that guy, that is the most important thing to get right and is a franchise altering circumstance. It makes things easier for everyone involved. We've already seen that in the 4 games he's played in. We're putting up points and competing with teams that would have been unimaginable 6 weeks ago.

Now whether or not Daboll will be the people to get the most out of this is a different argument, but it's undeniable that it was their call that has even provided that potential.

If a broken clock can only be right twice a day, they may have picked the best time possible.