Opening Night Game Thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers 10/22/25 7:00pm

[Barcs]

The Knicks might be the last good team left in NYC. Will they follow the same path of disappointment and regression? Or will they defy those odds and actually be good with a brand new coaching staff. I'm excited but tempering my expectations, especially in the beginning of the season where you expect some challenges with players getting a feel for it and improving chemistry.

[Barcs]

Read on Twitter

NY Post is such ****. There is always a reason.

[jvsimonetti0514]

The front office was a lot like this board. Give the players credit for wins and the coaches blame for loses.

because they thought the coaches unwillingness to be flexible or collaborate with the FO would hold the team back from getting to there ultimate goal.

This another article that gives me the vibes that Dolan was reacting to the fanbase and had enough support in the front office to make the change. The line about 51 wins being the players and 31 losses being on the coach really jumps out at me. I hope Dolan and his allies in the front office are right about that it was the collaboration and not the roster construction was last years issues but I’m not really a big Mike brown believer and think he’s a downgrade on Thibs.

[HEZI]

I don’t think we get smacked like how we did in Boston on opening night but won’t be surprised if Cleveland waxes us tonight

[mpharris36]

The front office was a lot like this board. Give the players credit for wins and the coaches blame for loses.

because they thought the coaches unwillingness to be flexible or collaborate with the FO would hold the team back from getting to there ultimate goal.

This another article that gives me the vibes that Dolan was reacting to the fanbase and had enough support in the front office to make the change. The line about 51 wins being the players and 31 losses being on the coach really jumps out at me. I hope Dolan and his allies in the front office are right about that it was the collaboration and not the roster construction was last years issues but I’m not really a big Mike brown believer and think he’s a downgrade on Thibs.

The org has gotten way more analytical in recent years. Thibs had some good qualities for sure as a coach he just is old school in his approach. He really wasn't one to take outside information on lineups rotations ect...

I'm not the biggest Mike Brown guy either but I think he is more just a face of the team. We brought in some offensive coaches and defensive coaches which will have impact on the team. We have guys in the FO that will provide data as well. Basically no one was telling who thibs could and couldn't play.

For more or less this was Leon's decision.

[Capn'O]

Moar Revisiting Don Nelson - where I think the comparison falls apart is that the team Nelson took over didn't have particularly diverse offensive weapons to mix up the offense. We ultimately went out and got guys like Houston, LJ, Sprewell, Camby that fit the up tempo offense Nelson wanted to push but those weren't the guys he walked in on. There was a reason "dump it to Pat" was the offense there. Brown has a lot more options to work with and getting a guy who is more creative on offense makes a lot of sense at this stage of our development. There are a lot of different actions that could unlock various players' skillsets in substantial ways. PnR with Brunson/KAT was very underutilized, for example, and Bridges needs to be used less as a straight catch and shoot option. He's better in motion and when he can integrate north/south abilities.

We're at the 1999 team phase, not the 1995 team phase and Don Nelson might have made a lot more sense there. Likewise, this team has a ton of talent. I'm not convinced Brown is the guy but let's give him a chance.

[mpharris36]

I don’t think we get smacked like how we did in Boston on opening night but won’t be surprised if Cleveland waxes us tonight

CLE is down a few key pieces as well. No KAT (if the report is true) and MItch would be tough against there size. But they really only have one shot creator with Garland out...so if we can throw enough defenders at him Mikal, Deuce, OG maybe even at times...we would then force someone like Mobley to beat us which i can live with.

[3toheadmelo]

your going to believe what you want to believe regardless of what facts are provided to you.

The article you quoted from Katz directly contradicts the current reporting.

Leon Rose and the FO was growing apart but Katz said they had complete alignment. The current report is that the players especially Brunson did not step in and fight for Thibs to stay and have his back...but Katz said Brunson had thibs back.

Why would Thibs feel betrayed if he had the backing of his closest friends in the organization? He wasn't friends with Dolan

Did you even read the article the quote that Gravy provided to you clearly says that they gave up on defending Thibs because Dolan was going to get rid of him regardless.

In terms of betrayal, it’s pretty obvious that it’s about the players talking bad about Thibs to Dolan, because once again they were pressured and influenced by Dolan.

So there’s really no contraindications at all. In fact, it was just more confirmation that this was all Dolan’s doing. The title of the article is literally “ Is James Dolan having fun yet? The Knicks owner had better be after latest coaching change”

You can choose to believe what you want. We have at least 4 credible reporters saying this was Dolan. The facts are there.

Did you read it??? The article is framed as the sources "opinion" how is an opinion a fact? Why would someone lie about Dolans involvement from Thibs perspective? Thats where my angle is coming from.

He grew up and had strong relations with Leon, Rick, and Jalen. Hence betrayed.

He literally says "The Knicks owner FIRED Tom Thibodeau. It better worked". You should reread the article.

Like I said, if multiple credible reporters are saying the same thing then there's obviously some truth to it. You can choose to believe what you want lol

[Capn'O]

Edit: Goddamn it, y'all roped me in. Never mind.

[Guano]

to be fair a lot of this is media driven. Clear downside of playing and rooting for a team in NY. Negative news sells and gets clicks. Its always been the case. Look at the news.

For sure, and I also dont like accountability so this it's isnt on brand. But we're to blame too. This fan base is toxic af and thrives off negativity. Also we tend to have some questionable players, like coach killer mikal and the owner is suspect. What im trying to say is their is plenty of blame to go around for why the knicks stay messy.

Would it shock you to believe it was more OG that was vocal about the offense than Mikal. I think we see it in preseason. OG has may more freedom in this system then he did in Thibs...he was a sit in the corner guy and OG thinks of himself way more than just a defensive 3/D defensive guy.

But I agree NY'ers mentality is already pretty toxic and self centered...thats not always a bad thing. But its that dog eat dog world east coast mentality. We respect fight and grit more than other places because of it.

Thats what we want to see out of our teams.

Og is the coach killer?! He is a kindhearted brit and has a lil tism. I find it hard to believe he was leading the kill thibs campaign.

Bolded part is why I became such a huge fan of those 90s teams. Not the most talented but they were fearless and hard working. Its why some of us liked thibs he represented that mentality and also why some of us have a hard time with kat. But I digress.

This season is going to be fun with some lows and hopefully a lot more highs.

[Guano]

Edit: Goddamn it, y'all roped me in. Never mind.

Sham really got you to do research on the
Don Nelson years.

[Guano]

I don’t think we get smacked like how we did in Boston on opening night but won’t be surprised if Cleveland waxes us tonight

We're fcked if kat isnt playing.

[Red Vines]

As long as Brunson, Deuce, Mikal, and OG healthy we have a chance to win most games. Will be looking for overall improvement over the season instead of the Thibs game to game, win at all costs, approach.

[3toheadmelo]

Edit: Goddamn it, y'all roped me in. Never mind.

Sham really got you to do research on the
Don Nelson years.

We're all debating about Thibs, injuries, Dolan while Capn'o is on the sidelines doing a research thesis on Don Nelson

[HEZI]

I don’t think we get smacked like how we did in Boston on opening night but won’t be surprised if Cleveland waxes us tonight

CLE is down a few key pieces as well. No KAT (if the report is true) and MItch would be tough against there size. But they really only have one shot creator with Garland out...so if we can throw enough defenders at him Mikal, Deuce, OG maybe even at times...we would then force someone like Mobley to beat us which i can live with.

We are still adjusting to the changes and didn’t look good in preseason on either end but defensively we might have been worse than offensively and offensively we were horrible. So I’m not saying I expect things to go one way or another but if we were to get blown out it wouldn’t come as a surprise. Not sure how prepared we are but we didn’t look prepared at all on preseason so we will just wait to see

[Guano]

to be fair a lot of this is media driven. Clear downside of playing and rooting for a team in NY. Negative news sells and gets clicks. Its always been the case. Look at the news.

For sure, and I also dont like accountability so this it's isnt on brand. But we're to blame too. This fan base is toxic af and thrives off negativity. Also we tend to have some questionable players, like coach killer mikal and the owner is suspect. What im trying to say is there is plenty of blame to go around for why the knicks stay messy.

Winning games keeps much of the drama away, thats why it was so nice the last five years for me at least. Who knows what happens now

We made the ecf last year which was the best season in decades and it was still pretty rough.

Constant complaining about thibs, kat, mikal(justified), not playing 5 out, brunson being a "ballhog", ect, and the season ended in devastating fashion.

Though im sure this year we will be patient with mike brown and give him grace. And we will be calm with the high expectations of making the finals in a weak eastern conference. Should be roses around here all season.

[Wildcat]

Garland and Strus out tonight. I have this as a W.

[Guano]

Edit: Goddamn it, y'all roped me in. Never mind.

Sham really got you to do research on the
Don Nelson years.

We're all debating about Thibs, injuries, Dolan while Capn'o is on the sidelines doing a research thesis on Don Nelson

He went into self preservation mode. I saw sham setting that trap had instant dred and chose to ignore it. Cap went the other way and had to disprove it. I appreciate it and respect it.

[Capn'O]

Edit: Goddamn it, y'all roped me in. Never mind.

Sham really got you to do research on the
Don Nelson years.

That's not what I have issue with. That's fun for me but also relevant to consider the circumstances of our current coach. This nonsense re-litigation of how Thibs was fired is something that I should not be engaging in in this thread.

[Guano]

Garland and Strus out tonight. I have this as a W.

20 and 10 from yabu?!