It was a nice run, Jokic

[HotelVitale]

Comparing him to Jokic is dumb at this point. When Wemby carry his team into the playoffs and then win a ring, then we can talk.

Talent wise, he is above Jokic, but until he wins something, there is no comparison.

I think it's that Jokic is so crafty and uses such incredible judgement on almost every play that it sets up a potential really really fun battle between the two. The veteran master of timing and touch vs the young super freak who's still learning the game.

[tsherkin]

Wemby +31 in 30 minutes lol. Against arguably the best defensive front court in the NBA. And Wemby is only 21. He's only going to get better. Wemby has the potential to be the GOAT defensive player and the GOAT offensive player. He got Lively and Davis in foul trouble. I'm taking Wemby's game yesterday over any game Jokic has played. Mavs shot 6/21 inside the paint. It's been a long time since I've seen a player literally destroy a team's hope.

There's no doubt it was a great game. It's a very GOOD defensive frontcourt, but not from a matchup perspective in terms of stopping Wemby, that's for sure.

There's very little chance that Wemby turns into the GOAT offensive player; that's a lot of wild hyperbole based primarily on him being insanely tall and early in his career, so I'm not really going to address that.

But yeah. The idea that this one game means that much is, as is typically the case with one-game projections, a little foolish at best.

[guynumber45]

Wemby can surpass Jokic for sure. But what makes guys like Jokic and Lebron the best in the league was there ability to not only be the best player on the floor, but to have the durability and consistency to do that throughout an 82-game season + playoffs. Can Wemby do that? It remains to be seen. He is one-of-one in terms of his body, so we have no idea how he will look playing late into the postseason.

[The Master]

There's very little chance that Wemby turns into the GOAT offensive player; that's a lot of wild hyperbole based primarily on him being insanely tall and early in his career, so I'm not really going to address that.

GOAT offensive player is an overreaction, but based on the whole preseason and this first game - scoring-wise he very quickly addressed expectations of fans how he should model his game, so it's hard not to get excited. Efficiency and being hot besides - this Mavs game was an utter perfection of how Wemby should take an advantage of his size and skill. Giannis was at 31 PPG / 65 TS% scoring level in his ~best years, it's very realistic for Wemby to top it in a year or two.

[prime1time]

Wemby +31 in 30 minutes lol. Against arguably the best defensive front court in the NBA. And Wemby is only 21. He's only going to get better. Wemby has the potential to be the GOAT defensive player and the GOAT offensive player. He got Lively and Davis in foul trouble. I'm taking Wemby's game yesterday over any game Jokic has played. Mavs shot 6/21 inside the paint. It's been a long time since I've seen a player literally destroy a team's hope.

There's no doubt it was a great game. It's a very GOOD defensive frontcourt, but not from a matchup perspective in terms of stopping Wemby, that's for sure.

There's very little chance that Wemby turns into the GOAT offensive player; that's a lot of wild hyperbole based primarily on him being insanely tall and early in his career, so I'm not really going to address that.

But yeah. The idea that this one game means that much is, as is typically the case with one-game projections, a little foolish at best.

Which front court in the NBA is stopping Wemby this year?

[prime1time]

Comparing him to Jokic is dumb at this point. When Wemby carry his team into the playoffs and then win a ring, then we can talk.

Talent wise, he is above Jokic, but until he wins something, there is no comparison.

You're right it's no comparison. When Jokic was 21 he averaged 16.7 ppg/10 rbs/4.9 ast. It's always funny when people compare players in their prime to players just starting their careers and want to talk about accolades. You said it yourself talent wise it's not close. Wemby is just scratching the surface of his potential. Name one 21 year old in the history of the game you're taking over Wemby after that performance.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I said so many times last season that Wembys biggest problem is he just jacks threes like he’s Steph except he sucks at shooting them. And what do you know, look at how he played tonight. Only 2 three point attempts. It’s just one game but maybe he’s actually starting to get it.

He gained weight and strength which allows him not to be knocked off balance on his drives. Last year he was weaker. This was only a matter of time either way, as he clearly was going to put on weight. Jokic would have to obliterate Wembys offensive numbers to be considered better. Wemby is best defensive anchor ive ever seen, by far. Wait until Fox comes back, too. He gets downhill alot. If wembys man helps at all it's a lob, and Fox demands help when he gets downhill.

Or we could just relax and acknowledge that it was one game

Boo this man

[zero rings]

I just can’t comprehend the level of delusion someone would need to have to say Jokic is better than Wemby

Jokic has NEVER displayed that level of offensive talent as a big. Wemby was out there playing like he was 6’5 in a 7’6 body. It defied everything

This is a ridiculous comment. Jokic has been doing things for years that no other 7 footer has done on the offensive side as well as putting up stat lines that no other player has done, period. It took the avengers in team USA to take him out of the Olympics by adding Embiid.

There is no need to detract from Jokic's greatness to prop up Wemby.

They have both done stuff no one has seen, even if you think Wemby is more impressive.

There are many big men that are molded like Jokic. Jokic just happened to find himself in the right system to take advantage of it. Michael Malone is more important for Jokic than Jokic. Jokic’s style has existed in Europe for years. Wemby’s style is basically the idealized version of how to play basketball. Shooting, finishing, isolation, he’s shown flashes of being a passer too. On the defensive end, he might be the greatest.

So you think the only difference between Jokic and some run of the mill Euro big is… Michael Malone?

Absolutely unhinged take.

[prime1time]

There's very little chance that Wemby turns into the GOAT offensive player; that's a lot of wild hyperbole based primarily on him being insanely tall and early in his career, so I'm not really going to address that.

GOAT offensive player is an overreaction, but based on the whole preseason and this first game - scoring-wise he very quickly addressed expectations of fans how he should model his game, so it's hard not to get excited. Efficiency and being hot besides - this Mavs game was an utter perfection of how Wemby should take an advantage of his size and skill. Giannis was at 31 PPG / 65 TS% scoring level in his ~best years, it's very realistic for Wemby to top it in a year or two.

Why can't Wemby be GOAT offensive player? He's only going to get better. There's literally no answer for him. You can quibble and say well he doesn't play make but that's not the best way to evaluate GOAT Offensive player. Would you rather build an offense around 21 year old Jokic or 21 year old Wemby? Would you rather build your offense around 21 year old MJ or 21 year old Wemby? Would you rather build your offense around 21 year old Shaq/LBJ/Magic or Wemby? The notion that 21 year old Wemby shouldn't be included in the conversation for potential GOAT offensive player is laughable.

Wemby is the GOAT lob threat. He's a career 80% plus free throw shooter. His shot can't be contested. He just out muscled AD. Where's the player in the current NBA that's guarding him one-on-one?

"Bbbbbut it's only 1 game." Most of his shots yesterday were point blank easy scores. I've never seen a player score so easily. On a bad night he's good for 30. Just off lobs, floaters around the rim and free throws. On a night when his shot is falling the sky is the limit. And he's still getting better.

[prime1time]

lol I don't know about that just yet. People probably forget what Jokic did last season. Is Wemby going to put up a 30-13-10 season?

What did Jokic do last season? Put up a great regular season offensive display, yeah, but he played some of the worst defense in the league in the regular season. Completely coasted on defense which was a big part of the reason their defense regressed and they fired their coach.

Skill for skill, Wemby is the best player in the world already and it isn't even close. I dont know if Jokic has ever had a more impactful defensive game in his career than the one I seen last night from a guy who has only played 115 games in his career.

lol Jokic literally put up one of the best individual seasons of all time. I don't get downplaying that.

Jokic is the GOAT box score player. But that's not where the conversation is. To fully evaluate offense you should evaluate a players offensive production and the teams overall offense. One guy dominating the ball, creating everything is good for that players stat line but it's actually not ideal for overall offense. I'd take MJ 90s Bulls offenses or Kobe-Shaq offenses over Jokic's Nuggets offense.

The question of GOAT offensive player shouldn't be limited to who has the best box stats but rather which player can be the cornerstone for the best possible offense. Otherwise, players that do everything and dominate the ball have an inherent advantage. With the goal of building the best possible offense - not just generating the best possible box score/statline. If you could have any 21 year old in the history of the game with the goal of building the most unstoppable offense which player are you taking?

[10DayContract]

There's very little chance that Wemby turns into the GOAT offensive player; that's a lot of wild hyperbole based primarily on him being insanely tall and early in his career, so I'm not really going to address that.

GOAT offensive player is an overreaction, but based on the whole preseason and this first game - scoring-wise he very quickly addressed expectations of fans how he should model his game, so it's hard not to get excited. Efficiency and being hot besides - this Mavs game was an utter perfection of how Wemby should take an advantage of his size and skill. Giannis was at 31 PPG / 65 TS% scoring level in his ~best years, it's very realistic for Wemby to top it in a year or two.

Why can't Wemby be GOAT offensive player? He's only going to get better. There's literally no answer for him. You can quibble and say well he doesn't play make but that's not the best way to evaluate GOAT Offensive player. Would you rather build an offense around 21 year old Jokic or 21 year old Wemby? Would you rather build your offense around 21 year old MJ or 21 year old Wemby? Would you rather build your offense around 21 year old Shaq/LBJ/Magic or Wemby? The notion that 21 year old Wemby shouldn't be included in the conversation for potential GOAT offensive player is laughable.

Wemby is the GOAT lob threat. He's a career 80% plus free throw shooter. His shot can't be contested. He just out muscled AD. Where's the player in the current NBA that's guarding him one-on-one?

"Bbbbbut it's only 1 game." Most of his shots yesterday were point blank easy scores. I've never seen a player score so easily. On a bad night he's good for 30. Just off lobs, floaters around the rim and free throws. On a night when his shot is falling the sky is the limit. And he's still getting better.

Yup. We get it, dudes have to earn their stripes in the league...

But what I saw last night was the best player in history. It was only one game, true. However, if that is truly what this guy Wemby is, HE IS THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAYER IN HISTORY. Does he have the GOAT resume? Hell no. How could he? But the guy destroying AD and Lively ON BOTH ENDS like he was Iverson and Shaq was the best basketball player that ever lived last night. If we get that version of Wemby, no one has an argument for being better than him anymore.

[CobraCommander]

Jokic is still better...but Wembys upside is the highest upside I have ever seen...he gives AD (great defender) 40 on outrageous shooting and 3 blocks....he is basketballs Ohtani


wemby is going to go from 6th to 2nd surpassing Tatum (obviously cause he is hurt), Luka, SGA and Giannis right behind Jokic....but he has to do it more than once...cause SGA, Luka and Giannis aint gonna just lay down and let Wemby pass them....

[PushDaRock]

What did Jokic do last season? Put up a great regular season offensive display, yeah, but he played some of the worst defense in the league in the regular season. Completely coasted on defense which was a big part of the reason their defense regressed and they fired their coach.

Skill for skill, Wemby is the best player in the world already and it isn't even close. I dont know if Jokic has ever had a more impactful defensive game in his career than the one I seen last night from a guy who has only played 115 games in his career.

lol Jokic literally put up one of the best individual seasons of all time. I don't get downplaying that.

Jokic is the GOAT box score player. But that's not where the conversation is. To fully evaluate offense you should evaluate a players offensive production and the teams overall offense. One guy dominating the ball, creating everything is good for that players stat line but it's actually not ideal for overall offense. I'd take MJ 90s Bulls offenses or Kobe-Shaq offenses over Jokic's Nuggets offense.

The question of GOAT offensive player shouldn't be limited to who has the best box stats but rather which player can be the cornerstone for the best possible offense. Otherwise, players that do everything and dominate the ball have an inherent advantage. With the goal of building the best possible offense - not just generating the best possible box score/statline. If you could have any 21 year old in the history of the game with the goal of building the most unstoppable offense which player are you taking?

Wait, so you're punishing Jokic for not playing with hall of famers?

You said a lot without actually saying anything. Are you saying trying to say Jordan, Kobe and Shaq didn't dominate the ball?

[The Master]

Why can't Wemby be GOAT offensive player? He's only going to get better. There's literally no answer for him. You can quibble and say well he doesn't play make but that's not the best way to evaluate GOAT Offensive player. Would you rather build an offense around 21 year old Jokic or 21 year old Wemby? Would you rather build your offense around 21 year old MJ or 21 year old Wemby? Would you rather build your offense around 21 year old Shaq/LBJ/Magic or Wemby? The notion that 21 year old Wemby shouldn't be included in the conversation for potential GOAT offensive player is laughable.

He can, or it's not impossible, he's one of the most - if not the most - talented scorers the league has seen, but to become ~GOAT-offensive player he needs to vastly improve as a playmaker and let's say so far he hasn't showed that much of a growth in this field.

Also, 21yo LeBron in 05/06 season was +7.5 OBPM and +13.0 ON/OFF offensively, Magic was +5.6 OBPM with the FMVP in the playoffs - while 21yo Wembanyama was +3.6 OBPM and +1.9 ON/OFF offensively last year, so I don't think that your argument works the way you think. Again, it's possible that 22yo Wembanyama will be on par offensively with 22yo LeBron (Wemby will be 22 in few months), he obviously made a big leap offensively - but we don't know the extent of this leap so far, that's why it's an overreaction. Especially since Wemby doesn't need to be the best offensive player to be the best player overall, considering his defense.

[benson13]

It's one game. This isn't going to be the norm for Wemby.

That said, I can't help but be super excited. After the game I asked my wife if we could put the kids on the bus this morning or send them to school in an Uber.

[Rubios]

This is a weird thread after a single game which actually wasn't better than a bunch of different games which Jokic has had as recently as this past season... but Wemby looked great, played a really awesome STYLE of ball and is poised to have an amazing season, no doubt.

Wemby +31 in 30 minutes lol. Against arguably the best defensive front court in the NBA. And Wemby is only 21. He's only going to get better. Wemby has the potential to be the GOAT defensive player and the GOAT offensive player. He got Lively and Davis in foul trouble. I'm taking Wemby's game yesterday over any game Jokic has played. Mavs shot 6/21 inside the paint. It's been a long time since I've seen a player literally destroy a team's hope.

Wemby looked awesome. Period.
But last season, Jokic...
-Had a 31/21/22 (the first 30/20/20 ever)
-A back to back of 104/30/16
-Missed only 5 shots in a 4 game stretch

Surpassing Jokic is a huge leap -even for Victor-.

[prime1time]

Why can't Wemby be GOAT offensive player? He's only going to get better. There's literally no answer for him. You can quibble and say well he doesn't play make but that's not the best way to evaluate GOAT Offensive player. Would you rather build an offense around 21 year old Jokic or 21 year old Wemby? Would you rather build your offense around 21 year old MJ or 21 year old Wemby? Would you rather build your offense around 21 year old Shaq/LBJ/Magic or Wemby? The notion that 21 year old Wemby shouldn't be included in the conversation for potential GOAT offensive player is laughable.

He can, or it's not impossible, he's one of the most - if not the most - talented scorers the league has seen, but to become ~GOAT-offensive player he needs to vastly improve as a playmaker and let's say so far he hasn't showed that much of a growth in this field.

Also, 21yo LeBron in 05/06 season was +7.5 OBPM and +13.0 ON/OFF offensively, Magic was +5.6 OBPM with the FMVP in the playoffs - while 21yo Wembanyama was +3.6 OBPM and +1.9 ON/OFF offensively last year, so I don't think that your argument works the way you think. Again, it's possible that 22yo Wembanyama will be on par offensively with 22yo LeBron (Wemby will be 22 in few months), he obviously made a big leap offensively - but we don't know the extent of this leap so far, that's why it's an overreaction. Especially since Wemby doesn't need to be the best offensive player to be the best player overall, considering his defense.

I stand by comment. Wemby is 21 right now. He turns 22 January. I was referring to this season. Last season Wemby attempted 8+ 3's a game and 4.2 free throws. Yesterday he attempted 2 3's and 11 free throws. In fact, last year he only had 2 games where he attempted 11 free throws or more. The Wemby that we just saw against the Mavs. That Wemby was special. It's an overreaction to draw conclusions. But it's not an overreaction to analyze and project. That's what sports is about. I also think you misunderstood my question. My question isn't who had the best stats as a 21 year old. But rather who would rather have at that age for the rest of their career.

So when you take into account where they are, plus their potential to improve, plus their mental make-up and ability to reach their potential. The way you answered the question, there's no fun in it. It's just basic fact regurgitation. The real question is projecting outward. Taking into account Wemby's height, his length, his body control, his shooting ability, his ball handling, how much he's improved year over year would you rather have 21/22 year old Wemby or 21/22 year old Magic or 21/22 year old LBJ or 21/22 year old anyone else from an offensive perspective. That's the question. If all I wanted to know was who had the best On/Off and OBPM I could have looked that up myself lol.

[ArksNetsSince99]

I feel pretty comfortable saying that Wemby is the best talent I've ever seen.

Green Arrow can name you 5 better talents on the Knicks this season alone

[prime1time]

This is a weird thread after a single game which actually wasn't better than a bunch of different games which Jokic has had as recently as this past season... but Wemby looked great, played a really awesome STYLE of ball and is poised to have an amazing season, no doubt.

Wemby +31 in 30 minutes lol. Against arguably the best defensive front court in the NBA. And Wemby is only 21. He's only going to get better. Wemby has the potential to be the GOAT defensive player and the GOAT offensive player. He got Lively and Davis in foul trouble. I'm taking Wemby's game yesterday over any game Jokic has played. Mavs shot 6/21 inside the paint. It's been a long time since I've seen a player literally destroy a team's hope.

Wemby looked awesome. Period.
But last season, Jokic...
-Had a 31/21/22 (the first 30/20/20 ever)
-A back to back of 104/30/16
-Missed only 5 shots in a 4 game stretch

Surpassing Jokic is a huge leap -even for Victor-.

Once again you're getting caught up with box score stats. That's not the question. Jokic is the box score GOAT. My question is different. If you're starting a team and you wanted the best possible offense possible would you rather have prime Jokic or prime Wemby? If all I wanted to know was you could put up the best statline then the answer would be Jokic. But given the constraints of modern basketball - salary cap/draft etc. Which player in their prime - Jokic or Wemby - would you rather have knowing from an offensive perspective if you're trying to win a championship?

[prime1time]

The question of offensive GOAT shouldn't be limited to who has the best box score. But rather which player can be the cog of the best possible offense. Now best offense is subjective so you can make your argument any way you see fit, but I have a real problem with people tellling me Jokic is the offensive goat because he has the best stat lines. Is the offense that the Nuggets ran better than prime Steph and the Warriors? Prime LBJ and the Heat? Prime and MJ and the Bulls? Prime Larry and the Celtics? Prime Magic and the Lakers? If the offense itself isn't better then how can he be the offensive goat? If in big got to have it moments down the stretch Jokic is so tired from doing everything that he can't get up the floor until there's 15 seconds on the shot clock is that really the GOAT offensive player?