It was a nice run, Jokic

[tsherkin]

GOAT offensive player is an overreaction, but based on the whole preseason and this first game - scoring-wise he very quickly addressed expectations of fans how he should model his game, so it's hard not to get excited. Efficiency and being hot besides - this Mavs game was an utter perfection of how Wemby should take an advantage of his size and skill. Giannis was at 31 PPG / 65 TS% scoring level in his ~best years, it's very realistic for Wemby to top it in a year or two.

Sure. His approach in this first game was outstanding, and exactly what we were all looking for, right? And he was wonderfully successful in the process. It was fantastic to see.

I think topping 31 ppg / 65% TS is probably still a little aggressive because it isn't that common a thing and I don't think he'll play the minutes to actually get it done, but his talent is exceedingly clear, no doubt. And his development so far has been awesome to see. He's a delight to watch and have in the league.

Still, his upper bound remains exciting to ponder. He's got loads of potential beyond what he is right now, and what he is right now is already pretty amazing. I'm super-excited to see what he does as the team improves around him.

"Bbbbbut it's only 1 game." Most of his shots yesterday were point blank easy scores. I've never seen a player score so easily.

Watch more older basketball? Lots of guys have made it look that easy on a hot night, man. This is all hyperbole on your part.

Wemby is amazing. Let's not indulge in wild projection so much on the GB, though, and leave it on the team boards where it belongs.

On a bad night he's good for 30. Just off lobs, floaters around the rim and free throws.

That remains to be seen. On a bad night last year, he was good for less than 20, and had a 6-point game. Things haven't changed THAT much this year. He's very good, but similar things

On a night when his shot is falling the sky is the limit.

That isn't unique to him, though, so in the context of claims about his potential as the GOAT offensive player, it sort of falls flat as hyperbole.

[Yuri Vaultin]

This is a weird thread after a single game which actually wasn't better than a bunch of different games which Jokic has had as recently as this past season... but Wemby looked great, played a really awesome STYLE of ball and is poised to have an amazing season, no doubt.

Wemby +31 in 30 minutes lol. Against arguably the best defensive front court in the NBA.

Dallas? I don't see it.

[Optms]

This is a weird thread after a single game which actually wasn't better than a bunch of different games which Jokic has had as recently as this past season... but Wemby looked great, played a really awesome STYLE of ball and is poised to have an amazing season, no doubt.

Wemby +31 in 30 minutes lol. Against arguably the best defensive front court in the NBA.

Dallas? I don't see it.

If he can wallop AD and Derrick Lively while making them look small, I guarantee you he will do that to whoever you think has the best front court, too. No one in the current NBA, past or present, can guard Wemby. Point blank.

[tsherkin]

If he can wallop AD and Derrick Lively while making them look small, I guarantee you he will do that to whoever you think has the best front court, too. No one in the current NBA, past or present, can guard Wemby. Point blank.

I think that's probably aggressive. We'll see what happens. First, we need to see what kind of consistency he can get out of his jumper. Then, we need to see what happens when teams start putting real quickness on him instead of classic bigs. Lots of guys have looked pretty good when they could outquick people, but looked a little more mortal when shorter guys with better speed and lower center of gravity started to check them. Now, I don't think they'll ruin him like 07 Dirk or 2011 Lebron, but there are things which can be done with tall matchups who rely heavily on quickness.

The idea that no one ever across the history of the NBA can guard Wemby seems a little off, and further afield from how actual team defense works.

[Optms]

If he can wallop AD and Derrick Lively while making them look small, I guarantee you he will do that to whoever you think has the best front court, too. No one in the current NBA, past or present, can guard Wemby. Point blank.

I think that's probably aggressive. We'll see what happens. First, we need to see what kind of consistency he can get out of his jumper. Then, we need to see what happens when teams start putting real quickness on him instead of classic bigs. Lots of guys have looked pretty good when they could outquick people, but looked a little more mortal when shorter guys with better speed and lower center of gravity started to check them. Now, I don't think they'll ruin him like 07 Dirk or 2011 Lebron, but there are things which can be done with tall matchups who rely heavily on quickness.

The idea that no one ever across the history of the NBA can guard Wemby seems a little off, and further afield from how actual team defense works.

One of the best defenders of this era, AD, was on him last night. And did absolutely nothing to slow him down. Visually it was a massacre. And I'd be hard press to see anyone else have night like that against AD again all year, unless it was Wemby himself.

The only thing holding Wemby back that could give him hiccups with defensive match ups is the lack of experience at this point. He is still only 21 after all. But I am projecting a Shaq like level of dominance very soon with more maturity. Only unlike Shaq, Wemby won't be sent to the line to stop the onslaught or for strategic purposes. We are witnessing a generation talent on the cusp of dominating the game here. And he's only 21. What a time to be alive.

[tsherkin]

One of the best defenders of this era, AD, was on him last night. And did absolutely nothing to slow him down. Visually it was a massacre. And I'd be hard press to see anyone else have night like that against AD again all year, unless it was Wemby himself.

AD is a very good help defender, who is also pretty physical on the low block. He's less effective as mobility and range increase, so it's somewhat natural that Wemby (on a night where everything was going) was able to get after him.

We are witnessing a generation talent on the cusp of dominating the game here.

This part, I agree with just fine. He's undoubtedly an incredible talent who is still growing into himself, and he's all kinds of fun to watch.

[AlexanderRight]

Jokic's game still stacks up. He's basically averaged a triple over three straight years on 55%+ shooting and damn near 40% from 3. That's never happened and Wemby won't ever do that either. He literally has the highest PER ever and will always be a higher IQ player, a much better playmaker, and probably better floor raiser. Unless Wemby stops shooting threes (which I don't see happening) there's a good chance Joker will continue to shoot better from the field and unless Wemby goes full Wilt/Russell (which he has yet to do) Jokic will continue to have comparable rebounding numbers.

I get that Wemby will probably be the best player in the league very soon to a lot of people, but that doesn't cancel out what Joker is able to do, which has been historic. His game has zero athleticism and is all skill, IQ and vision which is never going away. Barring injury, I see Jokic easily having all time impact and being a legitimate threat for atleast another 5 years.

[FlyingArrow]

I'd like to see Wemby average 40 PPG and 15 REB Wilt Chamberlain-style. He can probably do it.

Do it this year. Massive scoring output is probably not the ideal winning combination, but this probably isn't a San Antonio year anyway.

[Optms]

Jokic's game still stacks up. He's basically averaged a triple over three straight years on 55%+ shooting and damn near 40% from 3. That's never happened and Wemby won't ever do that either. He literally has the highest PER ever and will always be a higher IQ player, a better playmaker, and floor raiser. Unless Wemby stops shooting threes (which I don't see happening) there's a good chance Joker will continue to shoot better from the field and unless Wemby goes full Wilt/Russell (which he has yet to do) Jokic will continue to have comparable rebounding numbers.

I get that Wemby will probably be the best player in the league very soon to a lot of people, but that doesn't cancel out what Joker is able to do, which has been historic. His game has zero athleticism and is all IQ and vision which is never going away. Barring injury, I see Jokic easily having all time impact and being a legitimate threat for another 5 years.

OKC basically nullified Joker's passing in the playoffs and showed the rest of the league the blueprint to limiting that part of his game. Then, call it what you want, but Alex Caruso limited him one on one. Yeah, a 6'4 guard.

What part of Wemby's game will be limited when he can just shoot and dunk on everyone? Worst comes to shove, he will still be the DPOY on the other end, unlike Joker.

[Sgt Major]

What did Jokic do last season? Put up a great regular season offensive display, yeah, but he played some of the worst defense in the league in the regular season. Completely coasted on defense which was a big part of the reason their defense regressed and they fired their coach.

Skill for skill, Wemby is the best player in the world already and it isn't even close. I dont know if Jokic has ever had a more impactful defensive game in his career than the one I seen last night from a guy who has only played 115 games in his career.

lol Jokic literally put up one of the best individual seasons of all time. I don't get downplaying that.

Jokic is the GOAT box score player. But that's not where the conversation is. To fully evaluate offense you should evaluate a players offensive production and the teams overall offense. One guy dominating the ball, creating everything is good for that players stat line but it's actually not ideal for overall offense. I'd take MJ 90s Bulls offenses or Kobe-Shaq offenses over Jokic's Nuggets offense.

The question of GOAT offensive player shouldn't be limited to who has the best box stats but rather which player can be the cornerstone for the best possible offense. Otherwise, players that do everything and dominate the ball have an inherent advantage. With the goal of building the best possible offense - not just generating the best possible box score/statline. If you could have any 21 year old in the history of the game with the goal of building the most unstoppable offense which player are you taking?

Kobe - Shaq
Bulls 90s

Who's Jokic's Kobe/Shaq? Who's Jokic's guy comparable to the Bulls' roster?

[AlexanderRight]

Jokic's game still stacks up. He's basically averaged a triple over three straight years on 55%+ shooting and damn near 40% from 3. That's never happened and Wemby won't ever do that either. He literally has the highest PER ever and will always be a higher IQ player, a better playmaker, and floor raiser. Unless Wemby stops shooting threes (which I don't see happening) there's a good chance Joker will continue to shoot better from the field and unless Wemby goes full Wilt/Russell (which he has yet to do) Jokic will continue to have comparable rebounding numbers.

I get that Wemby will probably be the best player in the league very soon to a lot of people, but that doesn't cancel out what Joker is able to do, which has been historic. His game has zero athleticism and is all IQ and vision which is never going away. Barring injury, I see Jokic easily having all time impact and being a legitimate threat for another 5 years.

OKC basically nullified Joker's passing in the playoffs and showed the rest of the league the blueprint to limiting that part of his game. Then, call it what you want, but Alex Caruso limited him one on one. Yeah, a 6'4 guard.

What part of Wemby's game will be limited when he can just shoot and dunk on everyone? Worst comes to shove, he will still be the DPOY on the other end, unlike Joker.

Joker still took the champs to 7 games with the rest of his team playing hobbled or like ****.

I'm not saying Wemby won't be better. But anyone thinking Joker is fading into the limelight must not be watching what that man has been doing.

And if the idea is just that Wemby will be "that much greater" than the rest of the league. Sure, I'll take that deal. But it's gonna take more than 1 game, or hell, even 1 season to prove that.

[Special_Puppy]

Jokic's game still stacks up. He's basically averaged a triple over three straight years on 55%+ shooting and damn near 40% from 3. That's never happened and Wemby won't ever do that either. He literally has the highest PER ever and will always be a higher IQ player, a better playmaker, and floor raiser. Unless Wemby stops shooting threes (which I don't see happening) there's a good chance Joker will continue to shoot better from the field and unless Wemby goes full Wilt/Russell (which he has yet to do) Jokic will continue to have comparable rebounding numbers.

I get that Wemby will probably be the best player in the league very soon to a lot of people, but that doesn't cancel out what Joker is able to do, which has been historic. His game has zero athleticism and is all IQ and vision which is never going away. Barring injury, I see Jokic easily having all time impact and being a legitimate threat for another 5 years.

OKC basically nullified Joker's passing in the playoffs and showed the rest of the league the blueprint to limiting that part of his game.

The blueprint is having a historic defense?

[The Master]

Unless Wemby stops shooting threes (which I don't see happening) there's a good chance Joker will continue to shoot better from the field and unless Wemby goes full Wilt/Russell (which he has yet to do) Jokic will continue to have comparable rebounding numbers.

Wemby clearly started to limit his 3pt shooting, in preseason he shot 10 3s in 5 games, yesterday he also had 2 attempts.

The problem with Wemby wasn't that he isn't a very good shooter so he shouldn't shoot them at all - the problem was that 1) he lacked strength and skill to create a shot for himself, that's why 2) he settled with 3 pointers way too much. It seems it was temporary though, so I guess now we'll see Wemby shooting 3-4 threes a game on high efficiency, thus I expect mind-boggling FG% and TS% from him (so far in 5 preseason games and in the opener he's at 77 TS% so maybe high 60s are within a reach this year? We'll see).

Jokic is fantastic, but he indeed may become Magic of this era (amazing player who had to compete with younger and more amazing guy in his peak - MJ in Magic's instance, obviously). And there's nothing wrong with that, lol.

[Bornstellar]

I mean I'm the president of the Victor homer club but I think him surpassing Jokic this season, while possible, is highly improbable. I think he eventually will eclipse his peak because I believe Victor is that damn talented but Jokic has had some of the most impressive individual seasons of all time the last couple years and his dominance on the offensive side of the ball is GOAT level. Obviously Vic easily clears him on defense but Jokic peak on O is so insanely high it is definitely not something that is going to be easy to top. And I think he's poised for another video game number season especially considering the Nuggets have significantly improved the roster around him

[tsherkin]

OKC basically nullified Joker's passing in the playoffs and showed the rest of the league the blueprint to limiting that part of his game. Then, call it what you want, but Alex Caruso limited him one on one. Yeah, a 6'4 guard.

I mean, Westbrook Westbrooking, MPJ being injured, and Christian Braun losing his shot entirely all played a pretty prominent role in allowing that to happen. Context DOES matter when discussing player performance in a short series.

Jokic is the GOAT box score player. But that's not where the conversation is. To fully evaluate offense you should evaluate a players offensive production and the teams overall offense. One guy dominating the ball, creating everything is good for that players stat line but it's actually not ideal for overall offense. I'd take MJ 90s Bulls offenses or Kobe-Shaq offenses over Jokic's Nuggets offense.

That's... remarkably short-sighted, given how much more talent those teams had on them compared to Jokic's Nuggets.

[JellosJigglin]

Wemby +31 in 30 minutes lol. Against arguably the best defensive front court in the NBA.

Dallas? I don't see it.

If he can wallop AD and Derrick Lively while making them look small, I guarantee you he will do that to whoever you think has the best front court, too. No one in the current NBA, past or present, can guard Wemby. Point blank.

Those guys on Dallas are wiry and lanky like he is, just shorter. I want to see how he does against centers that can body him. Even Shaq looked human at times when he went up against guys like Arvydas Sabonis and Yao Ming.

It was one of the most impressive games I've seen from a 21 year old though, no doubt.

[tsherkin]

It was one of the most impressive games I've seen from a 21 year old though, no doubt.

This is a good takeaway. People are being nuts with their hyperbole, as people are wont to do, but it was still a phenomenal performance.

[The Master]

Those guys on Dallas are wiry and lanky like he is, just shorter. I want to see how he does against centers that can body him. Even Shaq looked human at times when he went up against guys like Arvydas Sabonis and Yao Ming.

Wemby operates a lot on perimeter, there's no way that these heavier guys could defend him. Defensively - we'll see how stronger Wemby scales agains guys like Jokic as I think his defensive performance will improve as well.

So yeah, I agree that Mavs have probably top3 personnel in the league to defend Wemby (AD and Lively + good wing defenders). The problem is: if you put smaller guy on Wemby, he'll shoot over or attack them on mid post; if you put a legit 7-footer on him, he'll attack him on perimeter. Last year - he had issues in doing both of these things (strength and skill) - now it seems that he's comfortable in doing both. Anthony Davis of all people couldn't do anything because Wemby is 5 inches taller, lol, it's a lot - it's like defending KD with 6'6 guy. Now let's wait to what extent he's comfortable in such playing style, it's still a question mark.

[MrBigShot]

He looks like he realizes that he can put the ball in the basket literally any time he wants.

He's like one of those 7'5 create a players in 2k with 99 in everything. Made AD look like a traffic cone.

Wemby has a chance to be the greatest ever

[PushDaRock]

I mean I'm the president of the Victor homer club but I think him surpassing Jokic this season, while possible, is highly improbable. I think he eventually will eclipse his peak because I believe Victor is that damn talented but Jokic has had some of the most impressive individual seasons of all time the last couple years and his dominance on the offensive side of the ball is GOAT level. Obviously Vic easily clears him on defense but Jokic peak on O is so insanely high it is definitely not something that is going to be easy to top. And I think he's poised for another video game number season especially considering the Nuggets have significantly improved the roster around him

lol that's the crazy thing, I'm a massive fan as well and have been since day one. It would take a lot of bad luck for him not to be the best player in the league at some point. I just don't like this downplaying of Jokic who is a generational talent himself and very likely to end up top 10 all-time at worst.