PG: We may never lose again.

[YogurtProducer]

ehhh Gasol was significantly better than Jak. Not a knock on Jak, but Gasol was incredible. A 3+D center who could initiate offence.

Yeah I like Jak a lot but don't recall him holding Embiid scoreless in a game

Hey i'll give you Gasol (i said it was age not skillset - and he was out of the league a year later), but you're still stuck with starting Danny Green, a guy who could never handle or initiate.

Not saying that 3+D role players aren't good, just that this team is built differently - 5 legit starter caliber 30+mpg guys who can initiate, score, pass, and aren't defensive liabilities. We've never had this before iirc. And at the same time we have a legit #1 option, something we've gone long stretches without too.

I mean green was the only on on that team that couldn’t initiate, but the other 9 guys in the rotation could

[Blazing_royale]

BI gravity brings balance to Scottie/RJ/Quick on offense.

[LoveMyRaps]

Watch on YouTube

[everdiso]

Yeah I like Jak a lot but don't recall him holding Embiid scoreless in a game

Hey i'll give you Gasol (i said it was age not skillset - and he was out of the league a year later), but you're still stuck with starting Danny Green, a guy who could never handle or initiate.

Not saying that 3+D role players aren't good, just that this team is built differently - 5 legit starter caliber 30+mpg guys who can initiate, score, pass, and aren't defensive liabilities. We've never had this before iirc. And at the same time we have a legit #1 option, something we've gone long stretches without too.

I mean green was the only on on that team that couldn’t initiate, but the other 9 guys in the rotation could

They just didn't have a starting caliber 2 guard that could.

And not sure where we get to 9 from. After the top-3 options, Gasol and Ibaka were a nice combo but neither had been fulltime starters for a few years already and neither were after that year either. Green and OG were pure 3+Ds. Fred was starting to break out i guess but he could never be a fulltime starter at the 2.

[YogurtProducer]

Hey i'll give you Gasol (i said it was age not skillset - and he was out of the league a year later), but you're still stuck with starting Danny Green, a guy who could never handle or initiate.

Not saying that 3+D role players aren't good, just that this team is built differently - 5 legit starter caliber 30+mpg guys who can initiate, score, pass, and aren't defensive liabilities. We've never had this before iirc. And at the same time we have a legit #1 option, something we've gone long stretches without too.

I mean green was the only on on that team that couldn’t initiate, but the other 9 guys in the rotation could

They just didn't have a starting caliber 2 guard that could.

And not sure where we get to 9 from. After the top-3 options, Gasol and Ibaka were a nice combo but neither had been fulltime starters for a few years already and neither were after that year either. Green and OG were pure 3+Ds. Fred was starting to break out i guess but he could never be a fulltime starter at the 2.

Bad math on my part lol.

Lowry / FVV / Norm / Kawhi / Siaka / Gasol / Ibaka / OG

If we’re counting Poeltl, you gotta count OG and Norm.

[hyper316]

I always believed the RJ, those 32 games in 2023-2024 was not a fluke .553 fg% .392 3pt%

He was asked to do too much last year due to team injuries.

If he can increase his ft% to 80% and play above average defense, he's near all star level

[lolwut]

It's a long shot, but I hope RJ is willing to take a hometown discount. I love his aggressive play and his newfound willingness to facilitate on offense.

[Mikistan]

Where the **** is the game thread its game day

Thaddy, wake the **** up

[B3auu]

Something I find very encouraging is we scored 138 points with arguably our two best scorers having off nights.

Ingram 7/16 - 16 points
Quick 5/12 - 13 points

Not our two best scorers, but point well taken

[YogurtProducer]

Something I find very encouraging is we scored 138 points with arguably our two best scorers having off nights.

Ingram 7/16 - 16 points
Quick 5/12 - 13 points

Not our two best scorers, but point well taken

Historically they absolutely have been. Interesting who is above them? Maybe you think RJ? But IQ has scored at a more efficient rate for years and has creates WAY MORE offense for himself (and others) than RJ does.

[MEDIC]

Something I find very encouraging is we scored 138 points with arguably our two best scorers having off nights.

Ingram 7/16 - 16 points
Quick 5/12 - 13 points

Not our two best scorers, but point well taken

Quickly was 3rd in scoring last season & has never averaged over 20ppg in his career. I don't even see him as a "scorer". He's a shooter, but he needs to add a lot more to his game. I am not saying he can't get there, but he is definitely not our 2nd best scorer at this point.

[LoveMyRaps]

The fact that this post-game thread reached only 13 pages is kinda sad.

[Mikistan]

The fact that this post-game thread reached only 13 pages is kinda sad.

Meh, let's frame it positively, everyone was out partying post game for the win and jays

Once the jays win the world series and the Raptors are rolling proving they "got it" the bandwagon will be ready for stragglers

We all know angst and rage drives engagement, so just wait till some players struggle if you want big PG threads in meanwhile lol

[YogurtProducer]

Something I find very encouraging is we scored 138 points with arguably our two best scorers having off nights.

Ingram 7/16 - 16 points
Quick 5/12 - 13 points

Not our two best scorers, but point well taken

Quickly was 3rd in scoring last season & has never averaged over 20ppg in his career. I don't even see him as a "scorer". He's a shooter, but he needs to add a lot more to his game. I am not saying he can't get there, but he is definitely not our 2nd best scorer at this point.

I mean I understand most people didn't watch for the last 2 years due to the team sucking and him being hurt a lot, and likely never watched him in NYK overly much, but he is a lot more than a "shooter".

IQ was 3rd in scoring last year because he was hurt, and only played 27mpg. On a per 36 basis (just so the playing time is equal), he was at 22ppg and RJ was at 23ppg. He was also more efficient than RJ was, and superior from all areas of the floor other than at the basket. Not to mention, he had the lowest % of his buckets assisted of the bunch.

Simply put - IQ > RJ as a scorer. This was true in NYK as well, and a healthy IQ is gonna show why that was the case. The dude before he got traded to us was electric when he was given the ability to create as a main guy.

[everdiso]

I mean green was the only on on that team that couldn’t initiate, but the other 9 guys in the rotation could

They just didn't have a starting caliber 2 guard that could.

And not sure where we get to 9 from. After the top-3 options, Gasol and Ibaka were a nice combo but neither had been fulltime starters for a few years already and neither were after that year either. Green and OG were pure 3+Ds. Fred was starting to break out i guess but he could never be a fulltime starter at the 2.

Bad math on my part lol.

Lowry / FVV / Norm / Kawhi / Siaka / Gasol / Ibaka / OG

If we’re counting Poeltl, you gotta count OG and Norm.

nah, OG and Norm were interesting (though limited) young talent in 15-20mpg, but we have interesting young talent in those roles on this team too and i'm not counting them either.

I see why you'd be skeptical of including Poeltl in my definition but Poeltl is a guy that you can actually dump the ball to late in the clock and be confident he's got enough in his bag to to create a shot for himself or for a teammate (i.e. he's a 65ts% and 15ast% guy), while being good defensively the whole time. it took years for OG to be anything other than a spot up shooter or lob threat (first couple years he was a 55ts%/5ast% guy, and norm was always a defensive liability.

[YogurtProducer]

nah, OG and Norm were interesting (though limited) young talent in 15-20mpg, but we have interesting young talent in those roles on this team too and i'm not counting them either.

Norm was a 60TS% guy who immediately scored 16ppg on 62.4TS% the following season.
Anunoby less so for sure.

I see why you'd be skeptical of including Poeltl in my definition but Poeltl is a guy that you can actually dump the ball to late in the clock and be confident he's got enough in his bag to to create a shot for himself or for a teammate (i.e. he's a 65ts% and 15ast% guy), while being good defensively the whole time. it took years for OG to be anything other than a spot up shooter or lob threat (first couple years he was a 55ts%/5ast% guy, and norm was always a defensive liability.

Poeltl is absolutely not a guy you dump a ball to late in the clock and expect anything good to happen, do we watch the same guy...?

And if Norm was a defensive liability, so is RJ and Ingram.

[tsherkin]

nah, OG and Norm were interesting (though limited) young talent in 15-20mpg, but we have interesting young talent in those roles on this team too and i'm not counting them either.

Norm was a 60TS% guy who immediately scored 16ppg on 62.4TS% the following season.
Anunoby less so for sure.

I see why you'd be skeptical of including Poeltl in my definition but Poeltl is a guy that you can actually dump the ball to late in the clock and be confident he's got enough in his bag to to create a shot for himself or for a teammate (i.e. he's a 65ts% and 15ast% guy), while being good defensively the whole time. it took years for OG to be anything other than a spot up shooter or lob threat (first couple years he was a 55ts%/5ast% guy, and norm was always a defensive liability.

Poeltl is absolutely not a guy you dump a ball to late in the clock and expect anything good to happen, do we watch the same guy...?

And if Norm was a defensive liability, so is RJ and Ingram.

Poeltl is DEEEEFINITELY not a creator. He's a guy who works well off of others, and he's a low-volume guy at that. He's a great PnR partner and all that, but like Yogurt said here, he is absolutely not a guy you give late-clock possessions to with the expectation of creation.

And yeah, while RJ is improved, he isn't a good defender. And Ingram isn't anything special there either.

[everdiso]

nah, OG and Norm were interesting (though limited) young talent in 15-20mpg, but we have interesting young talent in those roles on this team too and i'm not counting them either.

Norm was a 60TS% guy who immediately scored 16ppg on 62.4TS% the following season.
Anunoby less so for sure.

I see why you'd be skeptical of including Poeltl in my definition but Poeltl is a guy that you can actually dump the ball to late in the clock and be confident he's got enough in his bag to to create a shot for himself or for a teammate (i.e. he's a 65ts% and 15ast% guy), while being good defensively the whole time. it took years for OG to be anything other than a spot up shooter or lob threat (first couple years he was a 55ts%/5ast% guy, and norm was always a defensive liability.

Poeltl is absolutely not a guy you dump a ball to late in the clock and expect anything good to happen, do we watch the same guy...?

And if Norm was a defensive liability, so is RJ and Ingram.[/quote]

Poeltl's not a guy you want to dump the ball down to late in the clock, but is definitely a guy that can make a play for himself or a teammate in that situation. Thanks both to his ability to score and his ability to pass.

Depite Norm's shooting, and despite his always affordable contract (very cheap compared to scoring comparables), he was a 15mpg a guy that year, and has bounced around the league as an undersized microwave scorer, quickly let go by every team after any time he got full starting minutes - and again, not moved on from due to price. He was a bit part on that 2019 team.

[YogurtProducer]

Poeltl's not a guy you want to dump the ball down to late in the clock, but is definitely a guy that can make a play for himself or a teammate in that situation. Thanks both to his ability to score and his ability to pass.

Depite Norm's shooting, and despite his always affordable contract (very cheap compared to scoring comparables), he was a 15mpg a guy that year, and has bounced around the league as an undersized microwave scorer, quickly let go by every team after any time he got full starting minutes - and again, not moved on from due to price. He was a bit part on that 2019 team.

I mean, this was what you said:

just that this team is built differently - 5 legit starter caliber 30+mpg guys who can initiate, score, pass, and aren't defensive liabilities. We've never had this before iirc.

If your benchmark for initiating is Poeltl, your benchmark for passing is Barrett, your scoring benchmark is Poeltl, and defensive liability threshold is RJ/Ingram, then that means the 2019 team had just as many guys, if not more, who could do those things lol.

You keep bringing up minutes per game for FVV/Norm/OG... yes they had low minute per game because we had such a loaded team. But considering all 3 of those guys became big time pieces of a team the next season shows they had those abilities to earlier and were just stuck behind (star) vets. FVV behind Lowry. Norm behind Kawhi/Danny. OG behind Kawhi/Siakam.

Poeltl's not a guy you want to dump the ball down to late in the clock, but is definitely a guy that can make a play for himself or a teammate in that situation. Thanks both to his ability to score and his ability to pass.

Sure... but if Poeltl is a guy you wanna say can do that then that means there is 25 other centers in the league who can as well... Poeltl is simply not a guy who can consistently make plays for anyone lol And I am a Poellt fan - but lets be realistic here.

[Boogie!]

nah, OG and Norm were interesting (though limited) young talent in 15-20mpg, but we have interesting young talent in those roles on this team too and i'm not counting them either.

Norm was a 60TS% guy who immediately scored 16ppg on 62.4TS% the following season.
Anunoby less so for sure.

I see why you'd be skeptical of including Poeltl in my definition but Poeltl is a guy that you can actually dump the ball to late in the clock and be confident he's got enough in his bag to to create a shot for himself or for a teammate (i.e. he's a 65ts% and 15ast% guy), while being good defensively the whole time. it took years for OG to be anything other than a spot up shooter or lob threat (first couple years he was a 55ts%/5ast% guy, and norm was always a defensive liability.

Poeltl is absolutely not a guy you dump a ball to late in the clock and expect anything good to happen, do we watch the same guy...?

And if Norm was a defensive liability, so is RJ and Ingram.

Poeltl's not a guy you want to dump the ball down to late in the clock, but is definitely a guy that can make a play for himself or a teammate in that situation. Thanks both to his ability to score and his ability to pass.

Depite Norm's shooting, and despite his always affordable contract (very cheap compared to scoring comparables), he was a 15mpg a guy that year, and has bounced around the league as an undersized microwave scorer, quickly let go by every team after any time he got full starting minutes - and again, not moved on from due to price. He was a bit part on that 2019 team.[/quote]

This post is not directed to you specifically but just a parr of the discussion as a whole… I’m not sure why some people think it’s necessary for every single player to be both a great offensive player and great defensive player… sometimes it’s okay to be good on one end and no good on the other. That’s why it’s a team game.