It was a nice run, Jokic

[tsherkin]

For the first 5 years of Jokic's career he averaged 17/9.6/5.5. So for half his career he put up pedesterian numbers and had a limited impact. How should that impact this conversation or should it not impact the conversation at all?

Peripheral attention to sport and how player acknowledgement works when the guy isn't a common archetype? Maybe paying heed to the fact that he was rocking 20/12/6 PER36 from his second season onward?

You know, authentic participation

[MMyhre]

OKC basically nullified Joker's passing in the playoffs and showed the rest of the league the blueprint to limiting that part of his game. Then, call it what you want, but Alex Caruso limited him one on one. Yeah, a 6'4 guard.

I mean, Westbrook Westbrooking, MPJ being injured, and Christian Braun losing his shot entirely all played a pretty prominent role in allowing that to happen. Context DOES matter when discussing player performance in a short series.

Jokic is the GOAT box score player. But that's not where the conversation is. To fully evaluate offense you should evaluate a players offensive production and the teams overall offense. One guy dominating the ball, creating everything is good for that players stat line but it's actually not ideal for overall offense. I'd take MJ 90s Bulls offenses or Kobe-Shaq offenses over Jokic's Nuggets offense.

That's... remarkably short-sighted, given how much more talent those teams had on them compared to Jokic's Nuggets.

When someone averages 28/14/6 on 48% shooting against arguably the greatest defense of all time with two starters injured and zero depth or shooting around him and people say he was SHUT DOWN, then that’s when you know you’re talking about the GOAT offensive player.

There isn’t a player in the history of the sport who is held to the offensive standard that Jokic is. If Wemby had those numbers against OKC in a 7 game series people would be saying he’s the best basketball player of all time. When Jokic does it he was “shut down”. That’s the difference. If Jokic doesn’t average a 30 point triple double on 60% shooting then he had a bad series. That’s how **** good he is.

If prime LeBron or prime Jordan had those numbers against OKC in a 7 game series it would be seen as an outstanding performance by them. But when it’s Jokic? Terrible series!

48 % shooting is not good for a center though, but you should always use ts % anyways, which was at 59.2 % which is good. SGA had more points and a better 62.8 ts % in less minutes as well.

Now Jokic is getting exposed for being fat and out of shape, and it's highlighting his weaknesses further. I've called him out for it for years, but the hivemind takes some time to realize it's not ideal to just be fat and play one of the most intensive sports in the world.

[MMyhre]

Those guys on Dallas are wiry and lanky like he is, just shorter. I want to see how he does against centers that can body him. Even Shaq looked human at times when he went up against guys like Arvydas Sabonis and Yao Ming.

Wemby operates a lot on perimeter, there's no way that these heavier guys could defend him. Defensively - we'll see how stronger Wemby scales agains guys like Jokic as I think his defensive performance will improve as well.

So yeah, I agree that Mavs have probably top3 personnel in the league to defend Wemby (AD and Lively + good wing defenders). The problem is: if you put smaller guy on Wemby, he'll shoot over or attack them on mid post; if you put a legit 7-footer on him, he'll attack him on perimeter. Last year - he had issues in doing both of these things (strength and skill) - now it seems that he's comfortable in doing both. Anthony Davis of all people couldn't do anything because Wemby is 5 inches taller, lol, it's a lot - it's like defending KD with 6'6 guy. Now let's wait to what extent he's comfortable in such playing style, it's still a question mark.

Anthony Davis is washed up. Look at him move now compared to 6 years ago, it's not even close.
So Wemby shoots over them, that doesn't mean he is going to hit all those shots. You're talking as if if he get's a shot off it's automatic, this is the problem with his last game, he hit a lot of tough midrange shots. Those shots are not always going to be falling, what does he do then?

Crazy overreactions, I want to see him against someone who is stronger and faster than him, what is he going to do? Shoot? Okay, let's see you make those shots consistently, not just overreact to one hot shooting game.

Bam Adebayo would probably be an ideal defender on him, stronger and faster than him with good length, and I want to see him in those kinds of matchups before I will say crazy stuff like GOAT and blabla. If he beats guys like Bam off the dribble/gets to the paint and shoots 50 % from midrange, and 40 % from three, then yeah, the league will need to draft new personnel to defend him. I just don't see him being this good at shooting already though, that usually takes much more time.

He was shooting 33.6 % on jump shots in 23-24 and 32.5 % on threes. Around 32.6 % on mid to long range two pointers on much lower volume than threes.
He was shooting 38.1 % on jump shots in 24-25 and 35.2 % on threes. Around 42.5 % on mid to long range two pointers on much lower volume than threes.

For comparison, Shai shot 45 % on jump shots in 24-25 and 35.6 % on threes. 53.4 % on high volume on short mid range shots, and 41.5 % on lower volume on long twos.

So it's not realistic for Wemby to enter the elite territory on either mid range shots or threes this season, but he will be in the tier or the tiers below that.

Durant was at 49.6 % on jump shots in 24-25, 51.8 % on high volume on short mid range shots, 51.6 % on low volume on long twos and 43.7 % on three pointers. That's probably the best all around jump shooter in the NBA. Wemby was pretty far behind him in jump shots last season, and he has not become as good at shooting them just because of one hot game.

We will see what he is made of when he does not get to the basket as easily as the terrible Mavericks, will he still be able to force his way in there, will he still hit jump shots from all areas efficiently or will he miss, have a lot of turnovers like last season again ++? He didn't showcase his playmaking as much either, which was very hit or miss in preseason.

It was a really cool game from Wemby, but we need to slow down here.

[Edrees]

I mean it's currently SGA's run?

Debateable imo.
I feel confident we’ll look back and say Shai had more help around him last season, and Jokic still took him to 7 games.
At worst they’re 1a/1b

I think jokic is clearly a better player, but it doesn't change the fact that Jokic is not on a "run" right now, as I think run means you're the one winning

[guynumber45]

Jokic might be my favourite player of all time.

But one thing I question about him as he enters his 30s is his discipline in maintaining his body. All the greats like Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Steph, etc. took extremely good care of their bodies as they got older, which allowed them to maintain a high level of play as they aged. Does Jokic have the discipline to do the same? Or does he love his beer too much?

[playoffs]

Jokic might be my favourite player of all time.

But one thing I question about him as he enters his 30s is his discipline in maintaining his body. All the greats like Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Steph, etc. took extremely good care of their bodies as they got older, which allowed them to maintain a high level of play as they aged. Does Jokic have the discipline to do the same? Or does he love his beer too much?

He's clearly an alcoholic and Nuggets should trade him to the Lakers for Ayton and fillers.

[DonaldSanders]

How many wins did the Lakers get in last years playoffs compared to the Nuggets? How about the Warriors? Jokic seems to have went further than LeBron, Curry, Jimmy Butler, Luka. He was closer to a Conference Final than the Celtics, Cavs and Bucks. He isn't a bum, he has won a chip and was a game away from the Conference Finals. I don't understand the hate. Not many are saying Wemby isn't a future MVP etc, but they're saying let him play half a season, more than one single game.

Why are you mentioning Jimmy/Steph/Warriors with Steph being sidelined after the Game 1 win of the 2nd round? Did you forget Steph was injured?

[Cubbies2120]

I mean it's currently SGA's run?

Debateable imo.
I feel confident we’ll look back and say Shai had more help around him last season, and Jokic still took him to 7 games.
At worst they’re 1a/1b

I think jokic is clearly a better player, but it doesn't change the fact that Jokic is not on a "run" right now, as I think run means you're the one winning

After he rings this year, 2 rings 2 mvps in 4 seasons...ain't too shabby

[prime1time]

Those guys on Dallas are wiry and lanky like he is, just shorter. I want to see how he does against centers that can body him. Even Shaq looked human at times when he went up against guys like Arvydas Sabonis and Yao Ming.

Wemby operates a lot on perimeter, there's no way that these heavier guys could defend him. Defensively - we'll see how stronger Wemby scales agains guys like Jokic as I think his defensive performance will improve as well.

So yeah, I agree that Mavs have probably top3 personnel in the league to defend Wemby (AD and Lively + good wing defenders). The problem is: if you put smaller guy on Wemby, he'll shoot over or attack them on mid post; if you put a legit 7-footer on him, he'll attack him on perimeter. Last year - he had issues in doing both of these things (strength and skill) - now it seems that he's comfortable in doing both. Anthony Davis of all people couldn't do anything because Wemby is 5 inches taller, lol, it's a lot - it's like defending KD with 6'6 guy. Now let's wait to what extent he's comfortable in such playing style, it's still a question mark.

Anthony Davis is washed up. Look at him move now compared to 6 years ago, it's not even close.
So Wemby shoots over them, that doesn't mean he is going to hit all those shots. You're talking as if if he get's a shot off it's automatic, this is the problem with his last game, he hit a lot of tough midrange shots. Those shots are not always going to be falling, what does he do then?

Crazy overreactions, I want to see him against someone who is stronger and faster than him, what is he going to do? Shoot? Okay, let's see you make those shots consistently, not just overreact to one hot shooting game.

Bam Adebayo would probably be an ideal defender on him, stronger and faster than him with good length, and I want to see him in those kinds of matchups before I will say crazy stuff like GOAT and blabla. If he beats guys like Bam off the dribble/gets to the paint and shoots 50 % from midrange, and 40 % from three, then yeah, the league will need to draft new personnel to defend him. I just don't see him being this good at shooting already though, that usually takes much more time.

He was shooting 33.6 % on jump shots in 23-24 and 32.5 % on threes. Around 32.6 % on mid to long range two pointers on much lower volume than threes.
He was shooting 38.1 % on jump shots in 24-25 and 35.2 % on threes. Around 42.5 % on mid to long range two pointers on much lower volume than threes.

For comparison, Shai shot 45 % on jump shots in 24-25 and 35.6 % on threes. 53.4 % on high volume on short mid range shots, and 41.5 % on lower volume on long twos.

So it's not realistic for Wemby to enter the elite territory on either mid range shots or threes this season, but he will be in the tier or the tiers below that.

Durant was at 49.6 % on jump shots in 24-25, 51.8 % on high volume on short mid range shots, 51.6 % on low volume on long twos and 43.7 % on three pointers. That's probably the best all around jump shooter in the NBA. Wemby was pretty far behind him in jump shots last season, and he has not become as good at shooting them just because of one hot game.

We will see what he is made of when he does not get to the basket as easily as the terrible Mavericks, will he still be able to force his way in there, will he still hit jump shots from all areas efficiently or will he miss, have a lot of turnovers like last season again ++? He didn't showcase his playmaking as much either, which was very hit or miss in preseason.

It was a really cool game from Wemby, but we need to slow down here.

He's the GOAT defender and the GOAT lob threat.

Read on Twitter

Wemby can basically roll out of bed and get 30. Talking about mid-range jumper percentage and 3-point percentage just shows you don't undersrtand what's happening. So I'll break it down for you. More than anyone else in the league Wemby is a must double team on the low block. One dribble with his length and he's scoring the vast majority of the time. Bam is 6'9. He's not stopping Wemby close to the rim. The most he can do is get physical with him and that's precisely what the Mavs did. All that will lead to is foul trouble. More so the Heat love to switch. So what happens if there's a cross matchup? It's basically a must foul situation or you're giving up the dunk.

Now add in the defense. Basically to beat the Spurs you have to make 3's because you're not coming inside the paint against this guy. The defensive impact is so far greater than any wing or guard that there's no comparison. If you're were starting a team today and you could choose any player you're taking Wemby.

[prime1time]

People really aren't giving Wemby enough credit. He gets so many more Blocks than anyone else it's just insane. He played 46 games last year and still had the most blocks by far (28). He had the most blocks in his rookie year by 50. For his career Giannis has 1065 blocks. Wemby already has 442 blocks in his career. For Wemby's career he averages 4.3 blocks a game. The all time leader in blocks per game is Hakeem with 3.09. The gap between Wemby and the next closest modern player in blocks is so wide it is insane.

Wemby is the greatest rim protector the game has ever seen. If he stays healthy he'll have so many more blocks than everyone else it's going to be laughable. The fact that people are really in here trying to argue for Jokic is disrespectful to Wemby. Maybe a point can be made that prime Jokic is better than 21/22 year old Wemby offensively - although I would take this version of Wemby over Jokic because Wemby is a must double team and Jokic is not - but once you add in the defense the conversation should come to an end. Like how many Defensive POY will Wemby win? Current leaders have 4. Assuming he's healthy Wemby should win it every year.

[MMyhre]

Wemby operates a lot on perimeter, there's no way that these heavier guys could defend him. Defensively - we'll see how stronger Wemby scales agains guys like Jokic as I think his defensive performance will improve as well.

So yeah, I agree that Mavs have probably top3 personnel in the league to defend Wemby (AD and Lively + good wing defenders). The problem is: if you put smaller guy on Wemby, he'll shoot over or attack them on mid post; if you put a legit 7-footer on him, he'll attack him on perimeter. Last year - he had issues in doing both of these things (strength and skill) - now it seems that he's comfortable in doing both. Anthony Davis of all people couldn't do anything because Wemby is 5 inches taller, lol, it's a lot - it's like defending KD with 6'6 guy. Now let's wait to what extent he's comfortable in such playing style, it's still a question mark.

Anthony Davis is washed up. Look at him move now compared to 6 years ago, it's not even close.
So Wemby shoots over them, that doesn't mean he is going to hit all those shots. You're talking as if if he get's a shot off it's automatic, this is the problem with his last game, he hit a lot of tough midrange shots. Those shots are not always going to be falling, what does he do then?

Crazy overreactions, I want to see him against someone who is stronger and faster than him, what is he going to do? Shoot? Okay, let's see you make those shots consistently, not just overreact to one hot shooting game.

Bam Adebayo would probably be an ideal defender on him, stronger and faster than him with good length, and I want to see him in those kinds of matchups before I will say crazy stuff like GOAT and blabla. If he beats guys like Bam off the dribble/gets to the paint and shoots 50 % from midrange, and 40 % from three, then yeah, the league will need to draft new personnel to defend him. I just don't see him being this good at shooting already though, that usually takes much more time.

He was shooting 33.6 % on jump shots in 23-24 and 32.5 % on threes. Around 32.6 % on mid to long range two pointers on much lower volume than threes.
He was shooting 38.1 % on jump shots in 24-25 and 35.2 % on threes. Around 42.5 % on mid to long range two pointers on much lower volume than threes.

For comparison, Shai shot 45 % on jump shots in 24-25 and 35.6 % on threes. 53.4 % on high volume on short mid range shots, and 41.5 % on lower volume on long twos.

So it's not realistic for Wemby to enter the elite territory on either mid range shots or threes this season, but he will be in the tier or the tiers below that.

Durant was at 49.6 % on jump shots in 24-25, 51.8 % on high volume on short mid range shots, 51.6 % on low volume on long twos and 43.7 % on three pointers. That's probably the best all around jump shooter in the NBA. Wemby was pretty far behind him in jump shots last season, and he has not become as good at shooting them just because of one hot game.

We will see what he is made of when he does not get to the basket as easily as the terrible Mavericks, will he still be able to force his way in there, will he still hit jump shots from all areas efficiently or will he miss, have a lot of turnovers like last season again ++? He didn't showcase his playmaking as much either, which was very hit or miss in preseason.

It was a really cool game from Wemby, but we need to slow down here.

He's the GOAT defender and the GOAT lob threat.

Read on Twitter

Wemby can basically roll out of bed and get 30. Talking about mid-range jumper percentage and 3-point percentage just shows you don't undersrtand what's happening. So I'll break it down for you. More than anyone else in the league Wemby is a must double team on the low block. One dribble with his length and he's scoring the vast majority of the time. Bam is 6'9. He's not stopping Wemby close to the rim. The most he can do is get physical with him and that's precisely what the Mavs did. All that will lead to is foul trouble. More so the Heat love to switch. So what happens if there's a cross matchup? It's basically a must foul situation or you're giving up the dunk.

Now add in the defense. Basically to beat the Spurs you have to make 3's because you're not coming inside the paint against this guy. The defensive impact is so far greater than any wing or guard that there's no comparison. If you're were starting a team today and you could choose any player you're taking Wemby.

That game literally proved my point, he had a very bad jump shooting night and no, he did not even get 30 against a pretty bad defensive team as well. Wemby is good but he did not score at will against the Pelicans with both their main centers out and only a rookie center available.

Why are you talking about the defense? That is not relevant at all to a discussion about his offense. Did you even watch the Pelicans game? If you're going to only be a box score watcher and argue, there is not much credibility to that.

[MMyhre]

People really aren't giving Wemby enough credit. He gets so many more Blocks than anyone else it's just insane. He played 46 games last year and still had the most blocks by far (28). He had the most blocks in his rookie year by 50. For his career Giannis has 1065 blocks. Wemby already has 442 blocks in his career. For Wemby's career he averages 4.3 blocks a game. The all time leader in blocks per game is Hakeem with 3.09. The gap between Wemby and the next closest modern player in blocks is so wide it is insane.

Wemby is the greatest rim protector the game has ever seen. If he stays healthy he'll have so many more blocks than everyone else it's going to be laughable. The fact that people are really in here trying to argue for Jokic is disrespectful to Wemby. Maybe a point can be made that prime Jokic is better than 21/22 year old Wemby offensively - although I would take this version of Wemby over Jokic because Wemby is a must double team and Jokic is not - but once you add in the defense the conversation should come to an end. Like how many Defensive POY will Wemby win? Current leaders have 4. Assuming he's healthy Wemby should win it every year.

Jesus Christ. Jokic is literally one of the greatest offensive players ever, and after 1 great and one good game you are saying he is already comparable to Jokic offensively. In the second game his jump shot was off, he had like 2-3 airballs off the dribble. He is a great player, but he has a long way to go to be compared to Jokic offensively, and yes I can see that his defense is great, that's not what is being argued though. And he fouled out as well because of the pressure from Zion, which he also had Kornet to back him up against in the paint. And he was a -12 this game and the team went on a run without him in both the 4th quarter and the OT. Last season I had to fight Jokic fanboys, this season I am here to fight the Wemby fanboys that want their hero to be perfect. Just go outside and do some stuff on your own, it's not healthy to only try to live your life through someone else and "protect" their legacy online.

[MMyhre]

People really aren't giving Wemby enough credit. He gets so many more Blocks than anyone else it's just insane. He played 46 games last year and still had the most blocks by far (28). He had the most blocks in his rookie year by 50. For his career Giannis has 1065 blocks. Wemby already has 442 blocks in his career. For Wemby's career he averages 4.3 blocks a game. The all time leader in blocks per game is Hakeem with 3.09. The gap between Wemby and the next closest modern player in blocks is so wide it is insane.

Wemby is the greatest rim protector the game has ever seen. If he stays healthy he'll have so many more blocks than everyone else it's going to be laughable. The fact that people are really in here trying to argue for Jokic is disrespectful to Wemby. Maybe a point can be made that prime Jokic is better than 21/22 year old Wemby offensively - although I would take this version of Wemby over Jokic because Wemby is a must double team and Jokic is not - but once you add in the defense the conversation should come to an end. Like how many Defensive POY will Wemby win? Current leaders have 4. Assuming he's healthy Wemby should win it every year.

What makes Wemby great is not the amount of shots he blocks, it's his presence in the paint and shot deterrence. Once again, you are too focused on the simple stuff. If you watch the games, you will see deeper than just surface blocks numbers. Wemby scares people to go into the paint, Hassan Whiteside had crazy blocks numbers but people were not scared to go into the paint, shot less shots in the paint and shot less fg % in the paint against him like Wemby does. Block numbers are not the whole picture.

[prime1time]

Anthony Davis is washed up. Look at him move now compared to 6 years ago, it's not even close.
So Wemby shoots over them, that doesn't mean he is going to hit all those shots. You're talking as if if he get's a shot off it's automatic, this is the problem with his last game, he hit a lot of tough midrange shots. Those shots are not always going to be falling, what does he do then?

Crazy overreactions, I want to see him against someone who is stronger and faster than him, what is he going to do? Shoot? Okay, let's see you make those shots consistently, not just overreact to one hot shooting game.

Bam Adebayo would probably be an ideal defender on him, stronger and faster than him with good length, and I want to see him in those kinds of matchups before I will say crazy stuff like GOAT and blabla. If he beats guys like Bam off the dribble/gets to the paint and shoots 50 % from midrange, and 40 % from three, then yeah, the league will need to draft new personnel to defend him. I just don't see him being this good at shooting already though, that usually takes much more time.

He was shooting 33.6 % on jump shots in 23-24 and 32.5 % on threes. Around 32.6 % on mid to long range two pointers on much lower volume than threes.
He was shooting 38.1 % on jump shots in 24-25 and 35.2 % on threes. Around 42.5 % on mid to long range two pointers on much lower volume than threes.

For comparison, Shai shot 45 % on jump shots in 24-25 and 35.6 % on threes. 53.4 % on high volume on short mid range shots, and 41.5 % on lower volume on long twos.

So it's not realistic for Wemby to enter the elite territory on either mid range shots or threes this season, but he will be in the tier or the tiers below that.

Durant was at 49.6 % on jump shots in 24-25, 51.8 % on high volume on short mid range shots, 51.6 % on low volume on long twos and 43.7 % on three pointers. That's probably the best all around jump shooter in the NBA. Wemby was pretty far behind him in jump shots last season, and he has not become as good at shooting them just because of one hot game.

We will see what he is made of when he does not get to the basket as easily as the terrible Mavericks, will he still be able to force his way in there, will he still hit jump shots from all areas efficiently or will he miss, have a lot of turnovers like last season again ++? He didn't showcase his playmaking as much either, which was very hit or miss in preseason.

It was a really cool game from Wemby, but we need to slow down here.

He's the GOAT defender and the GOAT lob threat.

Read on Twitter

Wemby can basically roll out of bed and get 30. Talking about mid-range jumper percentage and 3-point percentage just shows you don't undersrtand what's happening. So I'll break it down for you. More than anyone else in the league Wemby is a must double team on the low block. One dribble with his length and he's scoring the vast majority of the time. Bam is 6'9. He's not stopping Wemby close to the rim. The most he can do is get physical with him and that's precisely what the Mavs did. All that will lead to is foul trouble. More so the Heat love to switch. So what happens if there's a cross matchup? It's basically a must foul situation or you're giving up the dunk.

Now add in the defense. Basically to beat the Spurs you have to make 3's because you're not coming inside the paint against this guy. The defensive impact is so far greater than any wing or guard that there's no comparison. If you're were starting a team today and you could choose any player you're taking Wemby.

That game literally proved my point, he had a very bad jump shooting night and no, he did not even get 30 against a pretty bad defensive team as well. It just shows you have severe brain rot my brother, Wemby is good but he did not score at will against the Pelicans with both their main centers out and only a rookie center available.

Why are you talking about the defense? That is not relevant at all to a discussion about his offense. Get his d1ck out your mouth and start thinking basketball a little bit kiddo.

Wemby had 29 on 13/23. If this proves your point it just confirms that you're wrong lol. On a bad shooting night he puts up 29. Pelicans not having a big has no bearing on Wemby. They wouldn't stop him regardless lol. If that's Wemby on a bad night what justification is there fore taking Jokic over him? Jokic's best strength is his passing. But focusing on assists ignores the conversation about gravity. Wemby has the greatest gravity of any player in the league. He's a must double team on the block. When factoring a players gravity I'm taking Wemby over Jokic offensively. And we're comparing prime Jokic - i.e. the best Jokic will ever be - to Wemby entering his 3rd season. When it's all said and done, there's no real conversation between these two players.

And I mention defense to make it completely clear that it is not close between these two guys. One guy is mediocre defender at best. While the other is on track to be the defensive GOAT. People really aren't giving Wemby enough credit. He gets so many more Blocks than anyone else it's just insane. He played 46 games last year and still had the most blocks by far (28). He had the most blocks in his rookie year by 50. For his career Giannis has 1065 blocks. Wemby already has 442 blocks in his career. For Wemby's career he averages 4.3 blocks a game. The all time leader in blocks per game is Hakeem with 3.09. The gap between Wemby and the next closest modern player in blocks is so wide it is insane.

[prime1time]

He's the GOAT defender and the GOAT lob threat.

Read on Twitter

Wemby can basically roll out of bed and get 30. Talking about mid-range jumper percentage and 3-point percentage just shows you don't undersrtand what's happening. So I'll break it down for you. More than anyone else in the league Wemby is a must double team on the low block. One dribble with his length and he's scoring the vast majority of the time. Bam is 6'9. He's not stopping Wemby close to the rim. The most he can do is get physical with him and that's precisely what the Mavs did. All that will lead to is foul trouble. More so the Heat love to switch. So what happens if there's a cross matchup? It's basically a must foul situation or you're giving up the dunk.

Now add in the defense. Basically to beat the Spurs you have to make 3's because you're not coming inside the paint against this guy. The defensive impact is so far greater than any wing or guard that there's no comparison. If you're were starting a team today and you could choose any player you're taking Wemby.

That game literally proved my point, he had a very bad jump shooting night and no, he did not even get 30 against a pretty bad defensive team as well. It just shows you have severe brain rot my brother, Wemby is good but he did not score at will against the Pelicans with both their main centers out and only a rookie center available.

Why are you talking about the defense? That is not relevant at all to a discussion about his offense. Get his d1ck out your mouth and start thinking basketball a little bit kiddo.

Wemby had 29 on 13/23. If this proves your point it just confirms that you're wrong lol. On a bad shooting night he puts up 29. Pelicans not having a big has no bearing on Wemby. They wouldn't stop him regardless lol. If that's Wemby on a bad night what justification is there fore taking Jokic over him? Jokic's best strength is his passing. But focusing on assists ignores the conversation about gravity. Wemby has the greatest gravity of any player in the league. He's a must double team on the block. When factoring a players gravity I'm taking Wemby over Jokic offensively. And we're comparing prime Jokic - i.e. the best Jokic will ever be - to Wemby entering his 3rd season. When it's all said and done, there's no real conversation between these two players.

And I mention defense to make it completely clear that it is not close between these two guys. One guy is mediocre defender at best. While the other is on track to be the defensive GOAT. People really aren't giving Wemby enough credit. He gets so many more Blocks than anyone else it's just insane. He played 46 games last year and still had the most blocks by far (28). He had the most blocks in his rookie year by 50. For his career Giannis has 1065 blocks. Wemby already has 442 blocks in his career. For Wemby's career he averages 4.3 blocks a game. The all time leader in blocks per game is Hakeem with 3.09. The gap between Wemby and the next closest modern player in blocks is so wide it is insane.

Imagine beating your chest about 29 pts on 13/23. Just shows where the Wemby conversation is. This isn't even a knock on Jokic. Wemby is in a different stratosphere than every player who has played the game. How many DPOY do we expect Wemby to win? On bad shooting nights he goes 13/23. So what happens when the shot is falling? If his two starting wings weren't 1/9 yesterday that game wouldn't have even been close. And those shots were all great looks because Wemby was getting double teamed. When Wemby touches the ball 10 eyeballs are on him. It's like Shaq in his prime. And even then all you can do is get physical with him and hope the refs don't call a foul.

[Godymas]

Does Jokic have any triple doubles if dribble handoffs weren’t assists?

[MMyhre]

He's the GOAT defender and the GOAT lob threat.

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Wemby can basically roll out of bed and get 30. Talking about mid-range jumper percentage and 3-point percentage just shows you don't undersrtand what's happening. So I'll break it down for you. More than anyone else in the league Wemby is a must double team on the low block. One dribble with his length and he's scoring the vast majority of the time. Bam is 6'9. He's not stopping Wemby close to the rim. The most he can do is get physical with him and that's precisely what the Mavs did. All that will lead to is foul trouble. More so the Heat love to switch. So what happens if there's a cross matchup? It's basically a must foul situation or you're giving up the dunk.

Now add in the defense. Basically to beat the Spurs you have to make 3's because you're not coming inside the paint against this guy. The defensive impact is so far greater than any wing or guard that there's no comparison. If you're were starting a team today and you could choose any player you're taking Wemby.

That game literally proved my point, he had a very bad jump shooting night and no, he did not even get 30 against a pretty bad defensive team as well. It just shows you have severe brain rot my brother, Wemby is good but he did not score at will against the Pelicans with both their main centers out and only a rookie center available.

Why are you talking about the defense? That is not relevant at all to a discussion about his offense. Get his d1ck out your mouth and start thinking basketball a little bit kiddo.

Wemby had 29 on 13/23. If this proves your point it just confirms that you're wrong lol. On a bad shooting night he puts up 29. Pelicans not having a big has no bearing on Wemby. They wouldn't stop him regardless lol. If that's Wemby on a bad night what justification is there fore taking Jokic over him? Jokic's best strength is his passing. But focusing on assists ignores the conversation about gravity. Wemby has the greatest gravity of any player in the league. He's a must double team on the block. When factoring a players gravity I'm taking Wemby over Jokic offensively. And we're comparing prime Jokic - i.e. the best Jokic will ever be - to Wemby entering his 3rd season. When it's all said and done, there's no real conversation between these two players.

And I mention defense to make it completely clear that it is not close between these two guys. One guy is mediocre defender at best. While the other is on track to be the defensive GOAT. People really aren't giving Wemby enough credit. He gets so many more Blocks than anyone else it's just insane. He played 46 games last year and still had the most blocks by far (28). He had the most blocks in his rookie year by 50. For his career Giannis has 1065 blocks. Wemby already has 442 blocks in his career. For Wemby's career he averages 4.3 blocks a game. The all time leader in blocks per game is Hakeem with 3.09. The gap between Wemby and the next closest modern player in blocks is so wide it is insane.

But you are delusional though. You know Jokic has averaged a triple double on almost 30 pts on 66.3 ts %, right? Wemby is not even close that level of playmaking and has not shown that scoring ability for a season, despite you fanboying over two games. You can't just say Wemby has better gravity than Jokic had and say that equals or is greater than his playmaking advantage over Wemby. And yeah, dropping 29 points on 23 shots vs the Pelicans without a center is not that impressive. But it shows he is a better offensive player this season and his offensive floor is higher, but let's see what he does against the better teams and defenders, and no I do not count the corpse of Anthony Davis.

The defense has no relevance to my argument about jump shooting and his offense, you're just trying to look better in your post by bringing up stuff that is totally irrelevant to what is being argued. And jump shot percentages is very much so relevant to a players offense, you posting his block numbers has no relevance to your claims of him being better than Jokic offensively after two regular season games.

I don't think you watch the games, because you are not pointing out details from the game like I am doing so your gravity claims from box score watching has no credibility.

I do think Wemby has gravity, but it's not on Stephen Curry level and a two game sample size is far too little to make such claims. Spurs shot 30 % from three last night, and it wasn't crazy open shots either, but Wemby made them get better shots from his presence, sure.

I used to be a delusional Dwyane Wade fanboy back in 2008, so I know this is not going anywhere.

[prime1time]

I'm honestly interested to know. People are saying that the Pelicans were an easy matchup because the centers were injured. Who's the matchup that's stopping Wemby? Bam and the Heat?

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What center in the league is stopping this? Lol.

[MMyhre]

I'm honestly interested to know. People are saying that the Pelicans were an easy matchup because the centers were injured. Who's the matchup that's stopping Wemby? Bam and the Heat?

Read on Twitter

What center in the league is stopping this? Lol.

We don't use fg % to evaluate shooting efficiency. His ts % in this game was 58.6, league average for a center in 24-25 was 60.8 %. Because he did it on higher volume it was a good performance, but nothing suggesting OKC, Rockets, Cavs and the Magic will just fall over and die when Wemby arrives. He is a problem, but this is just hyperbole like all your stuff. Go outside for a walk now, unhealthy obsession.

[prime1time]

That game literally proved my point, he had a very bad jump shooting night and no, he did not even get 30 against a pretty bad defensive team as well. It just shows you have severe brain rot my brother, Wemby is good but he did not score at will against the Pelicans with both their main centers out and only a rookie center available.

Why are you talking about the defense? That is not relevant at all to a discussion about his offense. Get his d1ck out your mouth and start thinking basketball a little bit kiddo.

Wemby had 29 on 13/23. If this proves your point it just confirms that you're wrong lol. On a bad shooting night he puts up 29. Pelicans not having a big has no bearing on Wemby. They wouldn't stop him regardless lol. If that's Wemby on a bad night what justification is there fore taking Jokic over him? Jokic's best strength is his passing. But focusing on assists ignores the conversation about gravity. Wemby has the greatest gravity of any player in the league. He's a must double team on the block. When factoring a players gravity I'm taking Wemby over Jokic offensively. And we're comparing prime Jokic - i.e. the best Jokic will ever be - to Wemby entering his 3rd season. When it's all said and done, there's no real conversation between these two players.

And I mention defense to make it completely clear that it is not close between these two guys. One guy is mediocre defender at best. While the other is on track to be the defensive GOAT. People really aren't giving Wemby enough credit. He gets so many more Blocks than anyone else it's just insane. He played 46 games last year and still had the most blocks by far (28). He had the most blocks in his rookie year by 50. For his career Giannis has 1065 blocks. Wemby already has 442 blocks in his career. For Wemby's career he averages 4.3 blocks a game. The all time leader in blocks per game is Hakeem with 3.09. The gap between Wemby and the next closest modern player in blocks is so wide it is insane.

But you are delusional though. You know Jokic has averaged a triple double on almost 30 pts on 66.3 ts %, right? Wemby is not even close that level of playmaking and has not shown that scoring ability for a season, despite you fanboying over two games Just get some basic knowledge on playmaking value before you start arguing so confidently. And yeah, dropping 29 points on 23 shots vs the Pelicans without a center is not that impressive. But it shows he is a better offensive player this season and his offensive floor is higher, but let's see what he does against the better teams and defenders, and no I do not count the corpse of Anthony Davis.

The defense has no relevance to my argument about jump shooting and his offense, you're just trying to look better in your post by bringing up stuff that is totally irrelevant to what is being argued. And jump shot percentages is very much so relevant to a players offense, you posting his block numbers has no relevance to your claims of him being better than Jokic offensively after two regular season games.

I don't think you watch the games, because you are not pointing out details from the game like I am doing so your gravity claims from box score watching has no credibility.

I do think Wemby has gravity, but it's not on Stephen Curry level and a two game sample size is far too little to make such claims. Spurs shot 30 % from three last night, and it wasn't crazy open shots either, but Wemby made them get better shots from his presence, sure.

I used to be a delusional Dwyane Wade fanboy back in 2008, so I know this is not going anywhere.

Two game sample size is way more than enough. Because I project. The same way that people have been telling Wemby to attack the hoop for years but he chose instead to shoot 8+ 3's a game last year. Let me ask you a question. In his first two games last year Wemby attempted 13 3's. How large of a sample size would you need to figure out if this was a good way for a guy who's 7'6 with an 8 feet wingspan to play? Like how much do we need to see in order to say that a 7'6 8'0 wingspan with great footwork and body control attacking the rim and doing things we've never seen before might be difficult to deal with?

In your own post you contradict yourself. You say that Wemby creates better shots for his teammates, but then claim they weren't good shots because the Spurs shot 30% from 3. Then you compare Wemby to Steph - a player who has arguably the greatest gravity of any player in the history of the game. Look here, it's not that complicated. You're not stopping Wemby one-on-one on the block period. If you gave every team the option Wemby vs. your best post defender 1 on 1, and then we play normal 5 on 5 offense vs. the Spurs who wins that? Spurs are a young team and they don't play smart basketball. Wemby on the block is unstoppable. If teams don't help/double team Wemby on the block could get 60 or 70 or 80 or 90 or 100. You're not stopping him one-on-one on the block. Period.

The gravity that a player has on the floor isn't magic. It doesn't just materialize out of thin year. It's built on basketball logic. We need to help our defender because he can't stop the player he's guarding one-on-one. This is the basis for gravity. Steph coming off multiple screens is tough for one defender to stop so we need to organize our defense so that he doesn't get open looks.