Blazers coach Chauncey Billups arrested by FBI for illegal gambling

[Mavrelous]

Can someone explain what crime is committed when someone on the coaching staff or a player tells someone else in advance of official notice that a player won't be playing? How is that a crime?

It seems like government intrusion and overreach to get itself involved absent the league itself making a complaint. As it stands it seems law enforcement is taking action at the behest of gambling companies for unclear reasons. If gambling companies lose because bettors get information the gambling companies are unaware of why should the rest of society care? The gambling companies should just learn their lesson and not offer bets for such things. That's how a free market would work.

That's not the crime he's charged with, his crime is about the illegal poker games, the guy he worked with just happens to be mentioned in both charges.
I still agree though, tax payer resources shouldn't be spent on making gambling more fair or that casino lords don't have competition from the mob, people engaging with private poker games should bear the burden of verifying their dealers, not the tax payer.

[Sedale Threatt]

The federal government is always going to go after mob activity, whatever it is. Especially in this instance where you've got a link to one of the most visible and successful sports leagues in the world. That's a no-brainer for them -- you weaken organized crime, which the FBI is obviously going to do at every opportunity no matter what it involves, while drawing a huge amount of eyeballs in the process.

Additionally, while the mob obviously isn't what it used to be, those groups have their fingers in many, many different pies and who knows what additional information or prosecutions they'll be able to squeeze out of this.

And it shouldn't take a genius to figure out why league figures feeding inside information for the purpose of betting is illegal. It's fraud, no different than insider trading or price fixing, that threatens the integrity of the game and what is now deemed to be a generally legal industry in the United States that involves an enormous number of bettors (customers, no different than any other business) who expect to all be playing by the same rules and that the product/service they're buying is provided as advertised.

Like the Rozier thing where he begged off with injury. That's obviously extremely low-stakes in a vacuum, but imagine if you just let that kind of thing slide. The possibilities for manipulating outcomes are endless, and that's bad for everyone, especially the fans who pour roughly $50 billion into American pro leagues every year with the expectation that everything is being played completely straight.

If you let that go, why stop there? Just let them shave points.

[WarriorGM]

And it shouldn't take a genius to figure out why league figures feeding inside information for the purpose of betting is illegal. It's fraud, no different than insider trading or price fixing, that threatens the integrity of the game and what is now deemed to be a generally legal industry in the United States that involves an enormous number of bettors (customers, no different than any other business) who expect to all be playing by the same rules and that the product/service they're buying is provided as advertised.

Like the Rozier thing where he begged off with injury. That's obviously extremely low-stakes in a vacuum, but imagine if you just let that kind of thing slide. The possibilities for manipulating outcomes are endless, and that's bad for both sides of the equation, especially the fans who pour roughly $50 billion into American pro leagues every year with the expectation that everything is being played completely straight.

If you let that go, why stop there? Just let them shave points.

Fraud? How is it fraud for a more knowledgeable person to take advantage of that knowledge? Insider trading is different because the rules there have been codified (although if we're being serious how hi-speed traders are allowed to front run orders and pay for order flow data makes a mockery of portraying it as a level playing field) and the players consent to the rules under the auspices of a government agency. If the insider trading is not prevented it will undermine financial markets. In the case of sports betting though where is the consent of the players? How does news of a player pulling out due to injury affect the integrity of the game itself aside from maybe as a form of gamesmanship? If a betting company wants to take bets on if you are going to cut your hair or not and you tell a friend to bet on you cutting your hair are you at fault for ruining the gambling setup?

[TimberKat]

Can someone explain what crime is committed when someone on the coaching staff or a player tells someone else in advance of official notice that a player won't be playing? How is that a crime?

It seems like government intrusion and overreach to get itself involved absent the league itself making a complaint. As it stands it seems law enforcement is taking action at the behest of gambling companies for unclear reasons. If gambling companies lose because bettors get information the gambling companies are unaware of why should the rest of society care? The gambling companies should just learn their lesson and not offer bets for such things. That's how a free market would work.

betting lines are set based on players being available. if lebron is listed as available, the lakers might be -5 pts, for example. as soon as he's ruled out, the line would move to lakers +2. so the people with inside info are getting the other team, which is now favored by 2, as a 5 point underdog instead. they can also bet on that team to win at +150 or something like that instead of -120.

the bets aren't canceled or changed when there is line movement, so it's a massive problem. people knowing that a star player is out ahead of time when everybody thinks they will play essentially makes the bet on the opposing team much more likely to win.

How is that any different from Wall Street? People with inside info sell before bad news hit public all the time

[Wolveswin]

And it shouldn't take a genius to figure out why league figures feeding inside information for the purpose of betting is illegal. It's fraud, no different than insider trading or price fixing, that threatens the integrity of the game and what is now deemed to be a generally legal industry in the United States that involves an enormous number of bettors (customers, no different than any other business) who expect to all be playing by the same rules and that the product/service they're buying is provided as advertised.

Like the Rozier thing where he begged off with injury. That's obviously extremely low-stakes in a vacuum, but imagine if you just let that kind of thing slide. The possibilities for manipulating outcomes are endless, and that's bad for both sides of the equation, especially the fans who pour roughly $50 billion into American pro leagues every year with the expectation that everything is being played completely straight.

If you let that go, why stop there? Just let them shave points.

Fraud? How is it fraud for a more knowledgeable person to take advantage of that knowledge? Insider trading is different because the rules there have been codified (although if we're being serious how hi-speed traders are allowed to front run orders and pay for order flow data makes a mockery of portraying it as a level playing field) and the players consent to the rules under the auspices of a government agency. If the insider trading is not prevented it will undermine financial markets. In the case of sports betting though where is the consent of the players? How does news of a player pulling out due to injury affect the integrity of the game itself aside from maybe as a form of gamesmanship? If a betting company wants to take bets on if you are going to cut your hair or not and you tell a friend to bet on you cutting your hair are you at fault for ruining the gambling setup?

Laws are laws. Once they are set - breaking a law is punishable by the legal code.

In this case, FBI wasn’t after Rozier or Billups. They were collateral damage caught in the net of an undercover investigation of organized crime families. FBI set a trap to catch on tape (audio and visual) crime figures committing multiple types of crimes.

The Undercover operation Intent wasn’t to protect gambling or NBA game outcomes (remaining on up-and-up). FBI could have just the same caught the crime families conducting prostitution or human trafficking or any multitude of crimes when they threw out their net.

FBI intent was to weaken organized crime by busting them for illegal activities. Huge success. Rozier and Billups shouldn’t have committed crimes in which they could have been collateral damage (as they were) and caught in a crime net (as they were).

[Sedale Threatt]

How is it fraud for a more knowledgeable person to take advantage of that knowledge?

You can't be serious.

An individual is using confidential, highly specific information that is not readily available to the general public to their advantage. That is identical to insider trading. It undermines the integrity and fairness of both industries.

Legal sportsbooks brought in something like $150 billion last year -- three times more than the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL combined -- so it is an absolutely massive business, with some estimates that anywhere from 20-30% of American adults participated in. Allowing a privileged few to exploit their positions effectively games the system in both cases at the expense of the overwhelming majority.

"Hey, that merger isn't going to be approved so sell your shares."

"Hey, LeBron isn't playing tonight so bet huge, and cut me in too."

And the government, such as it is, tends to take things like that seriously. While there was certainly some gamesmanship involved -- I think the lead supervisor was gunning for higher office -- they sent Martha Stewart to federal prison for less than $50K in stock trades.

Perhaps more importantly, letting that slide opens the door to further manipulation.

Like imagine if Billups, or Damon Jones, or the video intern, or whoever, passes that information on and gets a cut. Easiest money they've ever made. Then they go to one of the players they're tight with and lay that out, upon which they scheme to do it again, similar to how Rozier did by faking an injury. Now you're in the realm of outright match fixing, which (again) it shouldn't take a genius to figure out why that's bad.

(I've seen people blow that off because, lol, it's Terry Rozier; he was Charlotte's second-leading scorer that season and 30th in the NBA overall. That was a huge, huge deal. He essentially shaved points, which has and always will be illegal for very obvious reasons.)

It doesn't seem likely given the money some of these guys make. But I never would have imagined two people with $100 million in career earnings would have done what Billups and Rozier did, and here we are.

The easiest route is to just take that all off the table and avoid any impropriety at all.

[Johnny Bball]

6:45 Matt Berkey (poker player) knew as far back as 2019 that this game Billups was running was rigged. Pinhole camera placed in a phone sitting on the table catching images from underside of cards being dealt.

There's a longer version of just that pod about that game, I just can't find it.

Watch on YouTube

[Johnny Bball]

Spoiler:

And it shouldn't take a genius to figure out why league figures feeding inside information for the purpose of betting is illegal. It's fraud, no different than insider trading or price fixing, that threatens the integrity of the game and what is now deemed to be a generally legal industry in the United States that involves an enormous number of bettors (customers, no different than any other business) who expect to all be playing by the same rules and that the product/service they're buying is provided as advertised.

Like the Rozier thing where he begged off with injury. That's obviously extremely low-stakes in a vacuum, but imagine if you just let that kind of thing slide. The possibilities for manipulating outcomes are endless, and that's bad for both sides of the equation, especially the fans who pour roughly $50 billion into American pro leagues every year with the expectation that everything is being played completely straight.

If you let that go, why stop there? Just let them shave points.

Fraud? How is it fraud for a more knowledgeable person to take advantage of that knowledge? Insider trading is different because the rules there have been codified (although if we're being serious how hi-speed traders are allowed to front run orders and pay for order flow data makes a mockery of portraying it as a level playing field) and the players consent to the rules under the auspices of a government agency. If the insider trading is not prevented it will undermine financial markets. In the case of sports betting though where is the consent of the players? How does news of a player pulling out due to injury affect the integrity of the game itself aside from maybe as a form of gamesmanship? If a betting company wants to take bets on if you are going to cut your hair or not and you tell a friend to bet on you cutting your hair are you at fault for ruining the gambling setup?

Laws are laws. Once they are set - breaking a law is punishable by the legal code.

In this case, FBI wasn’t after Rozier or Billups. They were collateral damage caught in the net of an undercover investigation of organized crime families. FBI set a trap to catch on tape (audio and visual) crime figures committing multiple types of crimes.

The Undercover operation Intent wasn’t to protect gambling or NBA game outcomes (remaining on up-and-up). FBI could have just the same caught the crime families conducting prostitution or human trafficking or any multitude of crimes when they threw out their net.

FBI intent was to weaken organized crime by busting them for illegal activities. Huge success. Rozier and Billups shouldn’t have committed crimes in which they could have been collateral damage (as they were) and caught in a crime net (as they were).

Oh, yes they were. They were instrumental in it, I'm sure.

[Wolveswin]

Spoiler:

Fraud? How is it fraud for a more knowledgeable person to take advantage of that knowledge? Insider trading is different because the rules there have been codified (although if we're being serious how hi-speed traders are allowed to front run orders and pay for order flow data makes a mockery of portraying it as a level playing field) and the players consent to the rules under the auspices of a government agency. If the insider trading is not prevented it will undermine financial markets. In the case of sports betting though where is the consent of the players? How does news of a player pulling out due to injury affect the integrity of the game itself aside from maybe as a form of gamesmanship? If a betting company wants to take bets on if you are going to cut your hair or not and you tell a friend to bet on you cutting your hair are you at fault for ruining the gambling setup?

Laws are laws. Once they are set - breaking a law is punishable by the legal code.

In this case, FBI wasn’t after Rozier or Billups. They were collateral damage caught in the net of an undercover investigation of organized crime families. FBI set a trap to catch on tape (audio and visual) crime figures committing multiple types of crimes.

The Undercover operation Intent wasn’t to protect gambling or NBA game outcomes (remaining on up-and-up). FBI could have just the same caught the crime families conducting prostitution or human trafficking or any multitude of crimes when they threw out their net.

FBI intent was to weaken organized crime by busting them for illegal activities. Huge success. Rozier and Billups shouldn’t have committed crimes in which they could have been collateral damage (as they were) and caught in a crime net (as they were).

Oh, yes they were. They were instrumental in it, I'm sure.

Wrong. FBI - under Biden administration- didn’t start this sting operation with any knowledge or intent of one Rozier or Billups.

Once those two were caught doing illegal activity within the FBI net, of course they were a focus. Because they were criminals conducting illegal activity and caught on tape doing so.

[DusterBuster]

We’ve officially reached the RealDA phase of this thread. Armchair attorneys debating the definition of fraud.

Never change RealGM. Never change.

[Johnny Bball]

Spoiler:

Or just have the autopen like Biden admin used. Either way, right?

Anyone that says this never had to produce documents that required signatures for their work. Everyone had access to my sig at work if they wanted it. Everything I reviewed and approved had a signature imported by someone else.

This entire topic and any real concern about it is as stupid as it gets. And every administration has some form of "autopen" including Trumps. Anybody that thinks this is a big deal has no any clue how it really works.

Signature are a completely outdated method of security and have been for 30 years.

Banned

[Wolveswin]

Spoiler:

Or just have the autopen like Biden admin used. Either way, right?

Anyone that says this never had to produce documents that required signatures for their work. Everyone had access to my sig at work if they wanted it. Everything I reviewed and approved had a signature imported by someone else.

This entire topic and any real concern about it is as stupid as it gets. And every administration has some form of "autopen" including Trumps. Anybody that thinks this is a big deal has no any clue how it really works.

Signature are a completely outdated method of security and have been for 30 years.

Wow, your far reaching attempt at justification finds no end. I mean, we know Biden had no clue what his autopen was signing - and pardons are pretty important, wouldn’t ya think! Your justification makes sense when using autopen to sign his lunch order but not important presidential documents (in which pardons classify).

If you truly cared about change and/or what is right for America (this specific topic presidential pardons), you would look in the mirror, and be disgusted by actions - no matter if a D or an R by the presidents name.

Fact that you drag this topic into NBA discussion on illegal activity shows you don’t truly care - rather you just need yet another forum to spew your rhetoric.

Banned

[Clav]

Let’s please keep this discussion focused on basketball and basketball-related topics. While it’s true that the FBI is conducting investigations involving multiple criminal organizations, bringing political issues into this conversation takes us off track and lowers the quality of discussion. Everyone’s insights are more valuable when we stay centered on the game, players, and the sport itself.

Bumped this post to re-iterate to everyone, especially those whose posts have been hidden for continually pushing politics into this thread, go to the Current Affairs Forum and get it all out of your system before returning here. Thank you.

[durden_tyler]

National Betting Association

These two need to be banned from the league. Crazy, there's probably more out there

You realize this just now? The GOAT of basketball was a known gambling addict. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[durden_tyler]

Spoiler:

lol that is a leap to hate a man you already seem to hate.

Or, maybe just maybe, when FBI is doing a thousands upon thousands of man hours of undercover surveillance people also doing other illegal activity get caught in the net. Billups wasn’t the target he was caught in the net.

To me that is MORE credibility. If FBI saw/heard illegal activity by Billups in their net and didn’t arrest him - that would lessen FBI credibility. He just happens to be semi-famous and happens to be from Portland.

But you do you to keep consuming hate and spreading it to fit your (false) narrative. Seems to be working for you.

I don’t hate Trump at all I also know how to put dots together. I get your maga flag is flying but I should still be allowed to entertain alternative conversations here, especially when I have a very possible point.

Why so much hate in your life? You Hate maga so much running around branding folks you don’t even know - branding folks maga is your form of hate. When I said nothing about maga or Trump. And why? Because I don’t live in your echo chamber so you default to hate. “If not with me - against me.”

You need to break out of your hate filled echo chamber. Try something different.

America deserves this for voting Trump. LOL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[durden_tyler]

Spoiler:

Shut the league down for 3 seasons. Have Kash Patel and Trump clean up the league. Resume back in the 2028/2029

You also want Trump to destroy the NBA like he is doing to USA? LOL. You Americans are dumb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Strike: Derailing/Baiting
Banned

[DCasey91]

I've known and witnessed 3 publicized betting rings and all of them didnt get fully taken down because everyone got a cut won't go in to many details but purely on assumption Billups owed big with criminal groups/org and didnt deal with it the right way.

At the end of the day they all get a slice of the pie I mean everyone from legitimate "legal" public and private associations. Corruption just comes with the standing of power.

Gambling in sports will never go away because its one of the best money laundering systems in the world. It's a sad world once you follow the money and very scary but it is what it is

[bb22]

Humans are way too susceptible to gambling and illegal gambling. However ludicrous it may sound, I don’t throw all the blame on the individuals that got caught. I blame the Supreme Court, regulators, and podcasts (like Bill Simmons) that have made betting so easily accessible and part of everyday sports.

[DusterBuster]

Read on Twitter

Can one of the senators also ask him why his All Star Game formats are so ****?

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Why does it seem like Gilbert Arenas named some dudes to get himself out of his recent situation