PG Knicks/Heat (Everybody hates Yabu?)

[mpharris36]

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[ctorres]

pff what a rough watch.

call me crazy, call me a hater. But i dont neccessarily prefer clanking 40 threes to jalen brunson isos

If they're missing open shots, they gotta keep shooting. Eventually they are gonna go in at a high rate.

If they're clanking contested shots, that's a different story.

[stuporman]

Game 3...first loss and full meltdown mode. I'd say never change folks but you literally. never. change.

[ScienceOfLosing]

Game 3...first loss and full meltdown mode. I'd say never change folks but you literally. never. change.

Yeah, I just hope we retain enough of Thibs defensive mentality for the playoffs.
Teams will slow things down (so it’s great we have Brunson to ISO, and to a point KAT.)
I’m afraid we will become a great regular season team but no more.

In other news, the NBA is ready for Wemby time. Our window is closing.
Sick how they got Dylan Harper in San Antonio Robinson fashion.
Maybe the NBA gambling thing will spread to that…

[knicksfan974]

Just have to hope that Yabu and Clarkson get better as the year goes on but Clarkson has been way worse than Payne was last year and Yabu is def on precious’s level.

yabu was a fringe nba player every year but last year on a team trying to lose and clarkson was known to be mostly washed. good luck.

Still they put up 30 ppg together last year. They should be able to give at least something off the bench, and right now what they give is not much.

[thebuzzardman]

Watch on YouTube

per Mike Brown (from the first 4 minutes of the post-game conference:

- We want to generate 20 sprays a game. We had 14.

- Losing the possession game and lack of free throw attempts were main reasons for the loss.

- Heat had 45 transition points against us.

- We can't give up 15 free throws in the 3rd and 9 transition points in the 3rd, they had talked about BOTH in half time. That's where the game is won or loss.

- "Could we have played better offensively? Yes, but it's gonna be hard to win against vs a good team on their home floor if you give up that many fast break points and transition baskets and send them to the free throw line 31 times"

- Josh is still learning on the fly, KAT is still learning on the fly

"You saw the last 8 minutes, you touch the paint, you spray it, you don't go too deep. If you got a guy closing out on you, snap drive it, keep the dominoes falling, let somebody else come in and help, now you spray it. We didn't get that rhythm until late in the game which is fine, we'll figure it out. That's why I'm okay with that, that's still a learning curve. But what I'm not okay with, and it all kind of ties together, is us fouling, and us giving up 45 transition baskets. It doesn't matter how you play offensively, especially when you're still trying to find your way, you can't give points to your opponent like that. It's tough to overcome vs a good team on their home floor."

Other notes:

- "First half we had 13 UNCONTESTED threes and went 4 for 13. We have to take those shots. If you are open, you gotta shoot it, because I don't know if we're gonna get a better shot. I truly believe we'll knock those down. Landry was 0 for 4 from three, he's a better shooter than 0 for 4. Jordan was 0 for 4. That's two guys 0 for 8. KAT missed his first 6 and those are looks he normally takes. If KAT is open, I want him to let it fly. I can't tell you if all 54 shots were good threes, but I know we had the right person, right people taking them."

"IF YOU ARE OPEN, LET IT FLY AND WE WILL LIVE WITH IT"

The problem right now, maybe for the season, is the offense doesn't generate open looks and shots in the flow enough that the shooters are comfortable and make those 3s. I "THINK" that might be the problem with the shooting.

Now, I could blame that on unfamiliarity with the offense, but I'm watching Miami and there's like 7 new guys on the team, yet that offense looked WAY better.

Maybe Brown just isn't that great of a coach. He's ok. He's in the NBA, so I'm sure he's awesome. Compared to human beings. Maybe compared to other NBA coaches he's just kind of there.

[thebuzzardman]

The FO f*cked up by not getting Brunson another shot creator.

OG is really good all around but he can't create.
Bridges is just ok.
KAT isn't that special at it.
...maybe Clarkson. A little bit of Kolek. And that be it.
Hart in the open court. But now his finger is busted and he sucks.

And somehow, they got some "shooters" but none of them are that good at shooting.

Brown's offense just looks like a bunch of DHOs and trying too hard to run too many KAT/JB pick and rolls.
The movement isn't that great.
It doesn't generate a lot of easy looks.

8th seed.

FO f*cked up multiple ways.
Roster construction sucks.
Brown is average as hell.

Brown is just trying to get some bogus easy baskets by getting some trailing 3's so he can run up the score a little so it looks like they are playing faster. It's a scam. There isn't anything fast or creative about this offense.

Knicks peaked last year.

It's over. Enjoy the fact they are at least a winning team for the next few years because that's as good as it's getting.

They never replaced what Randle gave the team. At the end of the day you can’t depend on anyone other than Brunson to create for others.

It's fine they moved on from Randle, because he tried to create more than he should have.
And in theory, I liked that they went for KAT because they can play 5 out with him at the 5.
Which would work if KAT was a really good 3 point shooter, but is really any better than any other C who shoots good from 3? Is he special? Not really.

Also, they probably figured KAT can playmake some from the 5, give a little of Randle and some of iHart.

Except there's only been like 1 play this year with KAT doing some passing from the high post.
Mostly it's KAT doing P&Rs with Brunson, a zillion trailing 3s, and several of KATs drive to the baskets awkwardly, score half the time, offensive foul half the time, always complain to the refs, drives.

[thebuzzardman]

Giannis/Hukporti
OG/Diawara
Bridges/Hart (unfortunately)
Deuce/Matthews (waive Shamet)
Brunson/Kolek

In case of emergency: Jamison\McCullars

DNP-CD: Fatboosele, Chuckson

Get in done Leon. I'm ready.

KAT and all the 1sts Knicks are allowed to trade for Giannis.

KAT isn't the answer.
He can't create enough to be a 2nd option next to Brunson.
He isn't a good defender.
He isn't elite at anything except maybe defensive rebounding.
Is he good at shooting? Sure. Is he a good passer for a C? Yes.
Sorry, that's not good enough for someone taking up 50-60 million in cap space.

KAT is like a big goofy Carmelo Anthony. Really good players. Not the players you want to tie up all that money in.
Let other teams do it. Teams that don't want to win it all.

Giannis would bring in that secondary creator that is better than KAT.
Is it ideal, in that he's not a SF/SF wing? It's not.
But Giannis is elite in playmaking as a 4/5, especially as a 5, but let's assume he's still resistant to playing the 5.
And he can actually play defense.

[HEZI]

Watch on YouTube

per Mike Brown (from the first 4 minutes of the post-game conference:

- We want to generate 20 sprays a game. We had 14.

- Losing the possession game and lack of free throw attempts were main reasons for the loss.

- Heat had 45 transition points against us.

- We can't give up 15 free throws in the 3rd and 9 transition points in the 3rd, they had talked about BOTH in half time. That's where the game is won or loss.

- "Could we have played better offensively? Yes, but it's gonna be hard to win against vs a good team on their home floor if you give up that many fast break points and transition baskets and send them to the free throw line 31 times"

- Josh is still learning on the fly, KAT is still learning on the fly

"You saw the last 8 minutes, you touch the paint, you spray it, you don't go too deep. If you got a guy closing out on you, snap drive it, keep the dominoes falling, let somebody else come in and help, now you spray it. We didn't get that rhythm until late in the game which is fine, we'll figure it out. That's why I'm okay with that, that's still a learning curve. But what I'm not okay with, and it all kind of ties together, is us fouling, and us giving up 45 transition baskets. It doesn't matter how you play offensively, especially when you're still trying to find your way, you can't give points to your opponent like that. It's tough to overcome vs a good team on their home floor."

Other notes:

- "First half we had 13 UNCONTESTED threes and went 4 for 13. We have to take those shots. If you are open, you gotta shoot it, because I don't know if we're gonna get a better shot. I truly believe we'll knock those down. Landry was 0 for 4 from three, he's a better shooter than 0 for 4. Jordan was 0 for 4. That's two guys 0 for 8. KAT missed his first 6 and those are looks he normally takes. If KAT is open, I want him to let it fly. I can't tell you if all 54 shots were good threes, but I know we had the right person, right people taking them."

"IF YOU ARE OPEN, LET IT FLY AND WE WILL LIVE WITH IT"

The problem right now, maybe for the season, is the offense doesn't generate open looks and shots in the flow enough that the shooters are comfortable and make those 3s. I "THINK" that might be the problem with the shooting.

Now, I could blame that on unfamiliarity with the offense, but I'm watching Miami and there's like 7 new guys on the team, yet that offense looked WAY better.

Maybe Brown just isn't that great of a coach. He's ok. He's in the NBA, so I'm sure he's awesome. Compared to human beings. Maybe compared to other NBA coaches he's just kind of there.

He’s complaining about free throw disparity instead of acknowledging that Miami attacked the basket and bullied us on the interior while we just settled for outside shots like he wanted.

Where were the touches for KAT? Why is OG just shooting 12 three pointers instead of attacking the basket and playing to his strength?

15-54 from 3 as a team? This is not a recipe for any long term success

[NiceLikeChrist]

Watch on YouTube

I know it's late on the east coast, so I don't expect a whole lot of discussion about the game right now, but I hope some of you guys can take time during the day to dissect what Mike Brown said about the offense and defense.

Just let me know if you think it's fluff, or if Mike is actually on the right track.

On the right track to me. I'll stop comparing him to the wicked witch a couple months in but I feel better about these answers than thibs answers whenever we took a fat L

His mind is in the right place. People kept talking about the 3's, but they were good looks, just didn't hit them. Keep taking them. Shots will go in as we get in rhythm. The transition buckets and fouls are things we can clean up and don't take rhythm, it just takes effort.

[Wildcat]

Yabu isn't my favorite guy right now, but all but 2 guys weren't laying down bricks yesterday. 1.7 PPG on 20/14.3 splits is disgusting.

[3toheadmelo]

The FO f*cked up by not getting Brunson another shot creator.

OG is really good all around but he can't create.
Bridges is just ok.
KAT isn't that special at it.
...maybe Clarkson. A little bit of Kolek. And that be it.
Hart in the open court. But now his finger is busted and he sucks.

And somehow, they got some "shooters" but none of them are that good at shooting.

Brown's offense just looks like a bunch of DHOs and trying too hard to run too many KAT/JB pick and rolls.
The movement isn't that great.
It doesn't generate a lot of easy looks.

8th seed.

FO f*cked up multiple ways.
Roster construction sucks.
Brown is average as hell.

Brown is just trying to get some bogus easy baskets by getting some trailing 3's so he can run up the score a little so it looks like they are playing faster. It's a scam. There isn't anything fast or creative about this offense.

Knicks peaked last year.

It's over. Enjoy the fact they are at least a winning team for the next few years because that's as good as it's getting.

They never replaced what Randle gave the team. At the end of the day you can’t depend on anyone other than Brunson to create for others.

Bingo.

[3toheadmelo]

Watch on YouTube

per Mike Brown (from the first 4 minutes of the post-game conference:

- We want to generate 20 sprays a game. We had 14.

- Losing the possession game and lack of free throw attempts were main reasons for the loss.

- Heat had 45 transition points against us.

- We can't give up 15 free throws in the 3rd and 9 transition points in the 3rd, they had talked about BOTH in half time. That's where the game is won or loss.

- "Could we have played better offensively? Yes, but it's gonna be hard to win against vs a good team on their home floor if you give up that many fast break points and transition baskets and send them to the free throw line 31 times"

- Josh is still learning on the fly, KAT is still learning on the fly

"You saw the last 8 minutes, you touch the paint, you spray it, you don't go too deep. If you got a guy closing out on you, snap drive it, keep the dominoes falling, let somebody else come in and help, now you spray it. We didn't get that rhythm until late in the game which is fine, we'll figure it out. That's why I'm okay with that, that's still a learning curve. But what I'm not okay with, and it all kind of ties together, is us fouling, and us giving up 45 transition baskets. It doesn't matter how you play offensively, especially when you're still trying to find your way, you can't give points to your opponent like that. It's tough to overcome vs a good team on their home floor."

Other notes:

- "First half we had 13 UNCONTESTED threes and went 4 for 13. We have to take those shots. If you are open, you gotta shoot it, because I don't know if we're gonna get a better shot. I truly believe we'll knock those down. Landry was 0 for 4 from three, he's a better shooter than 0 for 4. Jordan was 0 for 4. That's two guys 0 for 8. KAT missed his first 6 and those are looks he normally takes. If KAT is open, I want him to let it fly. I can't tell you if all 54 shots were good threes, but I know we had the right person, right people taking them."

"IF YOU ARE OPEN, LET IT FLY AND WE WILL LIVE WITH IT"

The problem right now, maybe for the season, is the offense doesn't generate open looks and shots in the flow enough that the shooters are comfortable and make those 3s. I "THINK" that might be the problem with the shooting.

Now, I could blame that on unfamiliarity with the offense, but I'm watching Miami and there's like 7 new guys on the team, yet that offense looked WAY better.

Maybe Brown just isn't that great of a coach. He's ok. He's in the NBA, so I'm sure he's awesome. Compared to human beings. Maybe compared to other NBA coaches he's just kind of there.

The reality is that Mike Brown is a really good assistant coach. He’s pretty mediocre as a head coach.

[Knicks Byke]

seems like kat is having chemistry issues with the team.

[robillionaire]

Watch on YouTube

per Mike Brown (from the first 4 minutes of the post-game conference:

- We want to generate 20 sprays a game. We had 14.

- Losing the possession game and lack of free throw attempts were main reasons for the loss.

- Heat had 45 transition points against us.

- We can't give up 15 free throws in the 3rd and 9 transition points in the 3rd, they had talked about BOTH in half time. That's where the game is won or loss.

- "Could we have played better offensively? Yes, but it's gonna be hard to win against vs a good team on their home floor if you give up that many fast break points and transition baskets and send them to the free throw line 31 times"

- Josh is still learning on the fly, KAT is still learning on the fly

"You saw the last 8 minutes, you touch the paint, you spray it, you don't go too deep. If you got a guy closing out on you, snap drive it, keep the dominoes falling, let somebody else come in and help, now you spray it. We didn't get that rhythm until late in the game which is fine, we'll figure it out. That's why I'm okay with that, that's still a learning curve. But what I'm not okay with, and it all kind of ties together, is us fouling, and us giving up 45 transition baskets. It doesn't matter how you play offensively, especially when you're still trying to find your way, you can't give points to your opponent like that. It's tough to overcome vs a good team on their home floor."

Other notes:

- "First half we had 13 UNCONTESTED threes and went 4 for 13. We have to take those shots. If you are open, you gotta shoot it, because I don't know if we're gonna get a better shot. I truly believe we'll knock those down. Landry was 0 for 4 from three, he's a better shooter than 0 for 4. Jordan was 0 for 4. That's two guys 0 for 8. KAT missed his first 6 and those are looks he normally takes. If KAT is open, I want him to let it fly. I can't tell you if all 54 shots were good threes, but I know we had the right person, right people taking them."

"IF YOU ARE OPEN, LET IT FLY AND WE WILL LIVE WITH IT"

The problem right now, maybe for the season, is the offense doesn't generate open looks and shots in the flow enough that the shooters are comfortable and make those 3s. I "THINK" that might be the problem with the shooting.

Now, I could blame that on unfamiliarity with the offense, but I'm watching Miami and there's like 7 new guys on the team, yet that offense looked WAY better.

Maybe Brown just isn't that great of a coach. He's ok. He's in the NBA, so I'm sure he's awesome. Compared to human beings. Maybe compared to other NBA coaches he's just kind of there.

He’s complaining about free throw disparity instead of acknowledging that Miami attacked the basket and bullied us on the interior while we just settled for outside shots like he wanted.

Where were the touches for KAT? Why is OG just shooting 12 three pointers instead of attacking the basket and playing to his strength?

15-54 from 3 as a team? This is not a recipe for any long term success

When the shoot a bunch of threes strategy works it looks great. When it fails, as it did last night, it looks really really bad. “They were good open looks but we just didn’t hit them” ok, but do we actually have the personnel that’s going to hit them more often than not because I have doubts. Maybe they should have kept garrison Matthews if that’s how they want to operate.

[spree2kawhi]

The FO f*cked up by not getting Brunson another shot creator.

OG is really good all around but he can't create.
Bridges is just ok.
KAT isn't that special at it.
...maybe Clarkson. A little bit of Kolek. And that be it.
Hart in the open court. But now his finger is busted and he sucks.

And somehow, they got some "shooters" but none of them are that good at shooting.

Brown's offense just looks like a bunch of DHOs and trying too hard to run too many KAT/JB pick and rolls.
The movement isn't that great.
It doesn't generate a lot of easy looks.

8th seed.

FO f*cked up multiple ways.
Roster construction sucks.
Brown is average as hell.

Brown is just trying to get some bogus easy baskets by getting some trailing 3's so he can run up the score a little so it looks like they are playing faster. It's a scam. There isn't anything fast or creative about this offense.

Knicks peaked last year.

It's over. Enjoy the fact they are at least a winning team for the next few years because that's as good as it's getting.

They never replaced what Randle gave the team. At the end of the day you can’t depend on anyone other than Brunson to create for others.

It's fine they moved on from Randle, because he tried to create more than he should have.
And in theory, I liked that they went for KAT because they can play 5 out with him at the 5.
Which would work if KAT was a really good 3 point shooter, but is really any better than any other C who shoots good from 3? Is he special? Not really.

Also, they probably figured KAT can playmake some from the 5, give a little of Randle and some of iHart.

Except there's only been like 1 play this year with KAT doing some passing from the high post.
Mostly it's KAT doing P&Rs with Brunson, a zillion trailing 3s, and several of KATs drive to the baskets awkwardly, score half the time, offensive foul half the time, always complain to the refs, drives.

I don’t think that is a fair assessment of Towns (though I do agree with the rest of course). KAT’s passing has been very good in the first two games, even spectacular here and there. More importantly though, he is a special shooter. He’s been shooting 40.0% from three over his career and shot 42.0% from three last year, so coming here with your energy after one bad game is not a good look

[jvsimonetti0514]

Watch on YouTube

per Mike Brown (from the first 4 minutes of the post-game conference:

- We want to generate 20 sprays a game. We had 14.

- Losing the possession game and lack of free throw attempts were main reasons for the loss.

- Heat had 45 transition points against us.

- We can't give up 15 free throws in the 3rd and 9 transition points in the 3rd, they had talked about BOTH in half time. That's where the game is won or loss.

- "Could we have played better offensively? Yes, but it's gonna be hard to win against vs a good team on their home floor if you give up that many fast break points and transition baskets and send them to the free throw line 31 times"

- Josh is still learning on the fly, KAT is still learning on the fly

"You saw the last 8 minutes, you touch the paint, you spray it, you don't go too deep. If you got a guy closing out on you, snap drive it, keep the dominoes falling, let somebody else come in and help, now you spray it. We didn't get that rhythm until late in the game which is fine, we'll figure it out. That's why I'm okay with that, that's still a learning curve. But what I'm not okay with, and it all kind of ties together, is us fouling, and us giving up 45 transition baskets. It doesn't matter how you play offensively, especially when you're still trying to find your way, you can't give points to your opponent like that. It's tough to overcome vs a good team on their home floor."

Other notes:

- "First half we had 13 UNCONTESTED threes and went 4 for 13. We have to take those shots. If you are open, you gotta shoot it, because I don't know if we're gonna get a better shot. I truly believe we'll knock those down. Landry was 0 for 4 from three, he's a better shooter than 0 for 4. Jordan was 0 for 4. That's two guys 0 for 8. KAT missed his first 6 and those are looks he normally takes. If KAT is open, I want him to let it fly. I can't tell you if all 54 shots were good threes, but I know we had the right person, right people taking them."

"IF YOU ARE OPEN, LET IT FLY AND WE WILL LIVE WITH IT"

The problem right now, maybe for the season, is the offense doesn't generate open looks and shots in the flow enough that the shooters are comfortable and make those 3s. I "THINK" that might be the problem with the shooting.

Now, I could blame that on unfamiliarity with the offense, but I'm watching Miami and there's like 7 new guys on the team, yet that offense looked WAY better.

Maybe Brown just isn't that great of a coach. He's ok. He's in the NBA, so I'm sure he's awesome. Compared to human beings. Maybe compared to other NBA coaches he's just kind of there.

Sometimes you just gotta tip your hat to the defense. At least against Boston they were generating good looks that weren’t going in. They couldn’t even do that last night. Only really Brunson and Mikal handled the pressure from the best well. I think the frustrating thing was there was no plan b other than keep shooting 3’s. Maybe Kat’s foul trouble caused that or they haven’t added more wrinkles into the offense yet but it wasn’t a great look.

[NoStatsGuy]

pff what a rough watch.

call me crazy, call me a hater. But i dont neccessarily prefer clanking 40 threes to jalen brunson isos

If they're missing open shots, they gotta keep shooting. Eventually they are gonna go in at a high rate.

If they're clanking contested shots, that's a different story.

yea, definitley a fair argument. not much i can say. the team looked a lot better than vs the heat in the previous games, so not gonna complain too much.

[FrozenEnvelope]

Growing pains. Games like this are going to happen when you insist on taking so many 3s. What can't happen is that transition defense! Hope HC Brown drills it into them today during the film session cause all of them were guilty of being lazy, too slow and not communicating. And there needs to be a balance between taking so many 3s when it's simply not your night and finding other ways to score.

[CharlesOakley]

Sky is falling posters coming in hard. We missed our open 3s and played bad transition D and lost. We still are not full strength and the team is figuring it out. Take a breath. Remember, Yabusele probably won't get fatter and Clarkson can't chuck any worse.