The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars

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The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#1 » by peZt » Mon Oct 27, 2025 10:46 am

First let me already apologize for the massive novel that I wrote lmao. There is a TLDR at the end.

----

I made posts back in 2020 saying that the US was falling behind in producing superstar talent. At the time people argued stuff like “Guys like Tatum are still young, you’re comparing a 21-year-old Tatum to a 30-year-old LeBron, its not fair”

But at this point, I don’t think anyone can deny that something’s seriously wrong with US player development and the lack of true american superstars. The US hasn’t produced any true superstars in probably a decade or so. Just look at the lackluster potential 2028 Olympic roster

I mean lets look at the players: If we exclude the aging stars from the previous era and just look at players under 32, the guys that should be in their prime now, the top 5 are probably (no order):

Jayson Tatum
Anthony Edwards
Jalen Brunson
Donovan Mitchell
Cade Cunningham

Lets be honest, thats a disastrous group. How far back would we have to go to find a weaker group? Probably the early 1980s.

And now people argue “It’s not that the U.S. got worse, it’s that international players got better.”
But these two things aren’t mutually exclusive. International talent improving doesn’t automatically mean U.S. talent had to decline, yet that’s exactly what’s happening. Just because Luka Doncic exists, doesnt mean there can not be a Kobe in the US born at the same time.

This isn’t a case of “Americans look worse by comparison.” They are worse, unless you genuinely believe today’s top U.S. players are on the same level as previous generations.

Why is US. player development failing?

In 2009, you had more superstar-level players drafted in one year than in the entire last decade. Unless American kids suddenly became worse athletes or lost their genetics, there has to be a systemic reason for this.

So let’s break down what actually determines whether a 10-year-old ends up as a pro:

1) Physical traits – Will they have NBA level body and athleticism later on?
2) Work ethic – Do they have the necessary work ethic and drive to work on their game
3) Natural talent – Not everyone is born with the same talent, some learn faster, adapt quicker and so on
4) Quality of development – How good is the coaching, the youth development program, how are they developing their skills

Only when these four come together can a player reach the pro level. Some are more important than others, but I would argue all 4 must exist for a kid to become pro

Im just making up numbers rn, but lets just say an average kid in the US has a 1% chance of having a NBA body later, of those only 30% have the necessary work ethic, of those only 20% have the natural given talent. And then you add quality of development and lets say that of those kids that fullfill the first criterias and in theory have perfect individual requirements, there is a 40% chance of them becoming a pro due to the quality of training they get.
So for a random kid, the likelihood of becoming a pro with these made up numbers is:

0,01*0,3*0,2*0,4 = 0,024%


Actually, when I think about it the numbers I made up actually seem correct lol. Because there are 500,000 High School Players in the US. They make up 4 birth years. In the NBA we have around 300 US players. And in the NBA there are probably around 13 evenly distributed birth years. So around 3 times the birth years of High School. So out of 1,500,000 High School players that made up these 13 birth years, only 300 are currently in the NBA. So the likelihood of a US High School player becoming a NBA player is around 0,02%

And when you then want to find out how many NBA level players a country can produce, you have to add a 5th variable into the formula, which is size of player pool. So if the likelihood of a single kid becoming an NBA level player is 0,02%, you multiply this with the number of kids that play organised Basketball to find out how many NBA level players a country can produce. So now we have 5 variables.

Now back to the question, as to why the US seems to not be able to produce more superstars:

What of the above variables can actually be influenced? How can a country effect the number of players / superstars? I would argue the first three are mostly innate and dependent on the individual kid. You can’t control genetics or work ethic or talent.So the only variables that that can be influenced systematically is the quality of development and the size of the player pool.



The US system: Quantity over quality

In the US, kids develop through school sports. This system has its advantages and disadvantages.
The one huge advantage: Every kid gets a chance to play. With 500,000 high school players, there’s almost no chance that elite physical talent goes unnoticed. If you have the talent, you will participate in school sports and will be discovered. There is a low number of undiscovered talents.

And we know that of the 2 variables we can influence (development and player pool) the player pool can not be the culprit, because of the above reason and also due to big genereal population. The US has by far the biggest player pool. I know the numbers from Turkey and in Turkey there are around 8,000 High School aged kids that play organised Basketball. So its 500,000 in the US vs. 8,000 in Turkey. And that's not even counting kids who play street ball only. Its a massive difference.
So for this variable we know, the US will always be the best, so this variable can not be the issue, no other country has the sheer size of player pool as the US.

So that leaves us with the last variable Quality of player development program. And that leads us to the one big disadvantage of the school system: Subpar coaching and development.

Because how is it in Europe? In Europe there are no school sports. Development is not done in schools, its done in sports clubs. So imagine if the Lakers had a U12 team, that's where the players are developed. This has one massive disadvantage compared to the US: Kids have to actively decide to join a Basketball club. There is the potential of not discovering natural born talents because they simply never play Basketball and since there is no school sports, there is no chance of discovering them there. So it leads to a naturally way lower player pool size.
BUT, there is one massive advantage: Coaching and player development

In the US if a kid starts Basketball at a random primary school, their coach is often times just a random dad. Even at higher levels, you rarely get the professional, full-time development environment that European club systems provide, where coaching, nutrition, analytics, and individual skill work are handled professionally. These european clubs spend huge amounts on their development programs. I mean imagine if the Lakers had a U10 team, they would have the best youth coaches available, they would have individual skill trainers, the facilities would be top notch, they would have nutritionists etc. How can a random school in the US keep up with that? They can't.

The US wins on player pool size but loses badly on the individual development of the kids. In Europe there are fewer kids playing Basketball, but the few kids that do play Basketball get a much higher and better level of coaching.


But why is it worse now? - The death of streetball and rise of video games
The U.S. always had this school-based system, yet it still produced superstars in the past. So what changed? Something must be different now

My theory: Kids stopped playing streetball and started playing Fortnite instead.


Fortnite bit is a bit of a clickbait but hear me out. I mentioned that player development is the culprit, but player development is not only done in schools or clubs and thats the big misunderstanding that leads to the issue. One big aspect of player development is street ball. And that's the real culprit. Or rather the lack of street ball. Streetball used to be the missing piece, it was the “unofficial” player development program that made up for weak coaching in the US. Kids would play 1v1, 3v3, and pickup games for hours every day. By the time they reached 18, they had thousands of hours of real, instinctive basketball experience. Thousands of hours that are missing now. Why? Because kids dont go outside anymore, they dont play street ball anymore, instead they play Fortnite and video games all day.
I would spent the entire afternoon after school playing Football outside as a kid. For years. Now? I dont know the last time I saw kids play football on the streets in Germany or Turkey.

So whether or not video games are the reason for it who knows, but certainly kids just dont spend that much time playing street ball anymore and that's the real issue and reason for the lack of superstars

Why this doesn't effect Europe as much

And I think we and especially the US has massively underestimated how important this aspect was to developing players. Because when you think about it, which skills are developed playing street ball? 1v1, Iso Ball. So everything that is important for a true superstar. Thousands of hours until they reach age of 18 of playing 1v1, 3v3 and Iso Ball. Now missing.

But kids in Europe also play video games all day? So why are they still producing superstars? Because In europe you can make up for this with the development in the clubs that is top notch. You have analysts and the national federation who can analyse these trends and developments and adjust their training methods to make up for the lack of street ball. And then you have top coaches and trainers who can apply this in the clubs. I know this is the case in Football, in Europe the federations have noticed the lack of superstar talents in the birth years 1993-1998 and analysed that the reason for this was missing street football and many countries have adapted their training methods to make up for this. This is the same case in Basketball, which is why you still have top superstars come out of Europe, simply because the development in the clubs is top notch and can make up for it.

The US didn’t adapt and can't make up for it. Because when your development happens in schools, and your coach is a random dad who only cares about winning, there’s no system in place to fix that loss of thousands of hours of individual training and development done in the streets.
Now, the only contact for kids with Basketball is in the school, outside of school they play video games all day. Back in the day, the development in the schools also was bad, but the kids still were great individually and in 1v1 and just skill wise, because they accumulated thousands of hours playing against their friends on the street which is now missing.

And when you think about it, when did superstar development get bad in the US? Around the 2013 draft, so birth years after 1993 suck in the US.
This is around the last generation that still grew up on the streets. The younger millenials. The ones born after were starting to be more and more addicted to video games and at the latest kids born after 1998 simply did not go out that much anymore.
And its also exactly the same birth years that are so bad in european Football. The level of individual talent in the birth years 1993-1999 is at an all time low in Football (with few exceptions). Because of the exact same reason and phenomenon. But in Football or in Europe in general, clubs and federations have started counter measures to make up for this and therefore the individual talent has gone up again a lot in newer birth years.

The US is still the #1 producer of talent simply because of the sheer quantity of kids playing Basketball. But it is missing that "it" factor that came with street ball, where exactly these superstar skills were honed that the High School system can not make up for.

The Relative Age Effect and win first mentality in school
Another big issue is the fact that school coaches usually don't care about developing the players. They are in a win now mode.
So you might have a situation where you have a very talented kid, but he can be a late bloomer. Maybe he is younger than the others so he is not as good at this stage. But in theory he has much better talent. But the dad does not care about that, he only plays the best players at the very moment. This can be a fat, premature 6 feet tall 10 year old with 0 talent. But he will get the win at that stage. While the 5 feet late bloomer is ignored. And when this kid does not even play street ball, where will his talent be developed and honed? It will not be, it will be lost or at best underdeveloped.
In the past, this kid would still play Basketball outside of school for thousnads of hours and eventually catch up.

So the relative age effect is in full effect in the US, coaches tend to play the premature kids more than the late bloomer talented one.

In the european club system, coaches have a long-term incentive to develop those late bloomers, they might become stars for the same club at the senior level one day. But in US schools, coaches just want wins now. So raw, late-blooming talent gets lost early.


TLDR: The Domino Effect

    Kids don’t go outside anymore --> no more streetball hours.

    Thousands of accumulated hours of creativity and skill training on the street is lost --> Random schools with random ego driven dads as coaches can't make up for this lack of training hours

    Europe has professional clubs with professional coaches, nutritionists, full squad of individual trainers, analysts etc. --> they can compensate for missing streetball.

    The US system can’t, and superstar creation collapsed after around the 1993/1994 birth years, exactly when kids stopped playing outside.

    The US still produces talent through sheer numbers and the huge player pool, but the “it” factor that is developed mainly through thousands of hours of streetball is missing now.



References and numbers
I asked ChatGPT whether there are studies and research that shows whether kids actually play less outside, or if its just my imagination
----
In the U.S., kids spend significantly less time playing outside than in the past.
Data from the Outdoor Foundation shows that while overall participation in outdoor activities has grown slightly, the average number of outdoor outings per person has dropped about 25% over the last decade (from ~84 per year around 2012 to ~62 in 2023). Studies also show that unstructured outdoor play—like playing sports on the street—has steadily declined since the 1980s, replaced by organized sports, indoor recreation, and screen time. In short, American kids today go outside less often, play more under supervision, and spend less time in spontaneous physical play than previous generations.
----
So yes, research supports my claim that kids play less outside and on the street and participate more in organised sports instead. But when this development in the organised sport sucks (the how and why I mentioned my post) than this will lead to a worse result than in the past.
You cant play until the sunlight goes off at school. You have set practice times. So this endless hours and hours of outside play, street ball is missing. Obviously this will have a negative effect.





I also asked ChatGPT whether there are any articles that touch on simliar points and thoughts:

-----

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/06/30/heir-ball-how-the-cost-of-youth-sports-is-changing-the-nba?utm_source=chatgpt.com

In another recent piece, also in The New Yorker, by Jay Caspian Kang titled “Heir Ball: How the Cost of Youth Sports Is Changing the NBA”, the author speaks to how former stars like LeBron James credit their early pickup/street games (“21”, etc) as formative — and contrasts that with today’s more structured, coached, indoor youth-sport environment. “I didn’t have a basketball trainer … my basketball training was just being on the court,

Even LeBron agrees with me lol. He says development is more structured now, kids play more indoor organised ball. And my argument is that this indoor organised ball is of high quality in Europe --> Therefore barely any negative effect of missing street ball. But it is of clearly negative quality in the US --> Clear negative effect cause the high school with the random coaches can not offer the kind of development that would be needed


https://akjournals.com/view/journals/1020/1/1/article-p45.xml?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Seems like this research paper is touching on the exact same point and thought
There’s also an academic piece: “A need for reviving street sports…” by A. Tóth (2024) which argues that street sports participation (not just basketball) has declined in the digital age, and this decline has broader developmental implications



https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-city-game-basketball-new-york?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Article from 2015. Even then already this was starting to become more evident
In an article for The New Yorker titled “The City Game?”, journalist Thomas Beller reflects on how New York’s playground courts once produced top-level talent — and notes that they’re “looking emptier in recent years.” He links this decline of street-level play with the changing nature of how players are developed
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Re: Why the US struggles to produce superstar talent 

Post#2 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 10:55 am

I’ll have to sit down and read the whole thing in a bit to see if there’s any nuance but I completely disagree with the premise.

Kids who are in the top 1% of athletic talent who end up making the league aren’t trading playing time for video games.

Maybe they aren’t playing as much street ball but that’s because they are playing organized basketball from age 5.

I think part of it is just how basketball is played here in the US vs the World both with style and the leagues. The best players in Europe are playing as pros as teenagers and learning fundamentals. US teenagers are playing me first AAU ball and dominating other kids

It’s also a bad comparison because you’re comparing the entire world or entire countries against the US. You only get the very best of the best of the entire world that come to the NBA so of course it will be more slanted towards superstars
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: Why the US struggles to produce superstar talent 

Post#3 » by peZt » Mon Oct 27, 2025 11:42 am

jasonxxx102 wrote:I’ll have to sit down and read the whole thing in a bit to see if there’s any nuance but I completely disagree with the premise.

Kids who are in the top 1% of athletic talent who end up making the league aren’t trading playing time for video games.

Maybe they aren’t playing as much street ball but that’s because they are playing organized basketball from age 5.

I think part of it is just how basketball is played here in the US vs the World both with style and the leagues. The best players in Europe are playing as pros as teenagers and learning fundamentals. US teenagers are playing me first AAU ball and dominating other kids

It’s also a bad comparison because you’re comparing the entire world or entire countries against the US. You only get the very best of the best of the entire world that come to the NBA so of course it will be more slanted towards superstars


The video game thing is more of a clickbait, the real reason is the lack of streetball, whether this is due to playing more video games or now who knows.

Like you said, they are playing orgnaized Basketball from age 5. But this was always the case. Nothing about this changed. But what changed is that thosusands of hours of streetball training and development is missing. And as with any other skill in the world, if you have thousands of hours missing, you will miss the skill development that comes with that. And like you said, the style of both leagues and systems is making up for that more in Europe vs. US. The US system with AAU and random dads as coaches is not a great environment. But the kids in the past still developed superstar talent because of these thousands of hours, which are now missing.

And also Im not comparing US vs. the World. You can completely ignore the rest of the world in my argument and post. I am mostly comparing current US generation vs. past US generations. Yes, the rest of the world will be more slanted towards superstars, but this does not mean there can be no superstars in the US. But unless you think the top US guys like Tatum or Ant are on the same level as the superstars from the past, it clearly is the case
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Re: Why the US struggles to produce superstar talent 

Post#4 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 11:49 am

peZt wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:I’ll have to sit down and read the whole thing in a bit to see if there’s any nuance but I completely disagree with the premise.

Kids who are in the top 1% of athletic talent who end up making the league aren’t trading playing time for video games.

Maybe they aren’t playing as much street ball but that’s because they are playing organized basketball from age 5.

I think part of it is just how basketball is played here in the US vs the World both with style and the leagues. The best players in Europe are playing as pros as teenagers and learning fundamentals. US teenagers are playing me first AAU ball and dominating other kids

It’s also a bad comparison because you’re comparing the entire world or entire countries against the US. You only get the very best of the best of the entire world that come to the NBA so of course it will be more slanted towards superstars


The video game thing is more of a clickbait, the real reason is the lack of streetball, whether this is due to playing more video games or now who knows.

Like you said, they are playing orgnaized Basketball from age 5. But this was always the case. Nothing about this changed. But what changed is that thosusands of hours of streetball training and development is missing. And as with any other skill in the world, if you have thousands of hours missing, you will miss the skill development that comes with that. And like you said, the style of both leagues and systems is making up for that more in Europe vs. US. The US system with AAU and random dads as coaches is not a great environment. But the kids in the past still developed superstar talent because of these thousands of hours, which are now missing.

And also Im not comparing US vs. the World. You can completely ignore the rest of the world in my argument and post. I am mostly comparing current US generation vs. past US generations. Yes, the rest of the world will be more slanted towards superstars, but this does not mean there can be no superstars in the US. But unless you think the top US guys like Tatum or Ant are on the same level as the superstars from the past, it clearly is the case


maybe you're not from the US, but this just simply is not true.

The basketball industrial complex has grown massively in the US in the last ~20 years.

I think guys like Tatum and Ant are more talented than 90% of players in history so yea, they are on par with guys of the past. You're just romanticizing 90s basketball
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: Why the US struggles to produce superstar talent 

Post#5 » by peZt » Mon Oct 27, 2025 11:54 am

jasonxxx102 wrote:
peZt wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:I’ll have to sit down and read the whole thing in a bit to see if there’s any nuance but I completely disagree with the premise.

Kids who are in the top 1% of athletic talent who end up making the league aren’t trading playing time for video games.

Maybe they aren’t playing as much street ball but that’s because they are playing organized basketball from age 5.

I think part of it is just how basketball is played here in the US vs the World both with style and the leagues. The best players in Europe are playing as pros as teenagers and learning fundamentals. US teenagers are playing me first AAU ball and dominating other kids

It’s also a bad comparison because you’re comparing the entire world or entire countries against the US. You only get the very best of the best of the entire world that come to the NBA so of course it will be more slanted towards superstars


The video game thing is more of a clickbait, the real reason is the lack of streetball, whether this is due to playing more video games or now who knows.

Like you said, they are playing orgnaized Basketball from age 5. But this was always the case. Nothing about this changed. But what changed is that thosusands of hours of streetball training and development is missing. And as with any other skill in the world, if you have thousands of hours missing, you will miss the skill development that comes with that. And like you said, the style of both leagues and systems is making up for that more in Europe vs. US. The US system with AAU and random dads as coaches is not a great environment. But the kids in the past still developed superstar talent because of these thousands of hours, which are now missing.

And also Im not comparing US vs. the World. You can completely ignore the rest of the world in my argument and post. I am mostly comparing current US generation vs. past US generations. Yes, the rest of the world will be more slanted towards superstars, but this does not mean there can be no superstars in the US. But unless you think the top US guys like Tatum or Ant are on the same level as the superstars from the past, it clearly is the case


maybe you're not from the US, but this just simply is not true.

The basketball industrial complex has grown massively in the US in the last ~20 years.

I think guys like Tatum and Ant are more talented than 90% of players in history so yea, they are on par with guys of the past. You're just romanticizing 90s basketball


Im not talking about the 90%, Im talking about the top of the crop. Of course the average level is higher now, exactly because like you say the Basketball industry is growing, also in Europe. But this leads to a better average level, but evidently and obvioously not to a better top level

Its unfair to compare Ant and Tatum to the 90% of the 90s. You need to compare them to the top 1% of the 90s.
Again, lets look at the top 5-7 players of this era

Ant
Tatum
KAT
Brunson
Cade
Donovan Mitchell

Of course they are better than 90% of the players of the past.

But are they better than the top 5 of the 2010?
KD
LeBron
Harden
Curry
Westbrook

Are they better than the top 5 of the 2000s?
LeBron
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Wade

Are they better than the top 5 of the 1990s?
MJ
Barkley
Hakeem
David Robinson
Shaq

And so on.
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Re: Why the US struggles to produce superstar talent 

Post#6 » by RipHamilton » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:06 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:I think guys like Tatum and Ant are more talented than 90% of players in history so yea, they are on par with guys of the past. You're just romanticizing 90s basketball


They are both more talented than 99% of players in history, I would say.

But still, they are clearly less talented than the TOP players from the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. That's the real point.
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#7 » by FrodoBaggins » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:07 pm

So, AAU is the problem, but Street Ball is the solution?
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#8 » by FrodoBaggins » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:14 pm

Talent ebbs and flows. Sometimes there's a drought, sometimes there's a flood. We have Flagg, Harper, Petersen, Dybantsa, Boozer, etc on the horizon. Edgecombe could be something, too. Could be looking at the next LBJ, Wade, KD, Harden, Kobe, etc right there. Who knows; we'll see.
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Re: Why the US struggles to produce superstar talent 

Post#9 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:15 pm

peZt wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
peZt wrote:
The video game thing is more of a clickbait, the real reason is the lack of streetball, whether this is due to playing more video games or now who knows.

Like you said, they are playing orgnaized Basketball from age 5. But this was always the case. Nothing about this changed. But what changed is that thosusands of hours of streetball training and development is missing. And as with any other skill in the world, if you have thousands of hours missing, you will miss the skill development that comes with that. And like you said, the style of both leagues and systems is making up for that more in Europe vs. US. The US system with AAU and random dads as coaches is not a great environment. But the kids in the past still developed superstar talent because of these thousands of hours, which are now missing.

And also Im not comparing US vs. the World. You can completely ignore the rest of the world in my argument and post. I am mostly comparing current US generation vs. past US generations. Yes, the rest of the world will be more slanted towards superstars, but this does not mean there can be no superstars in the US. But unless you think the top US guys like Tatum or Ant are on the same level as the superstars from the past, it clearly is the case


maybe you're not from the US, but this just simply is not true.

The basketball industrial complex has grown massively in the US in the last ~20 years.

I think guys like Tatum and Ant are more talented than 90% of players in history so yea, they are on par with guys of the past. You're just romanticizing 90s basketball


Im not talking about the 90%, Im talking about the top of the crop. Of course the average level is higher now, exactly because like you say the Basketball industry is growing, also in Europe. But this leads to a better average level, but evidently and obvioously not to a better top level

Its unfair to compare Ant and Tatum to the 90% of the 90s. You need to compare them to the top 1% of the 90s.
Again, lets look at the top 5-7 players of this era

Ant
Tatum
KAT
Brunson
Cade
Donovan Mitchell

Of course they are better than 90% of the players of the past.

But are they better than the top 5 of the 2010?
KD
LeBron
Harden
Curry
Westbrook

Are they better than the top 5 of the 2000s?
LeBron
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Wade

Are they better than the top 5 of the 1990s?
MJ
Barkley
Hakeem
David Robinson
Shaq

And so on.


you're comparing entire careers of prior players against guys who are just entering their prime lol.

Tatum is already 4x 1st team all-nba, Ant has 2 2nd team all nba and looks like he could be an MVP caliber player at 24.

Basketball is different now, the top players are just as talented as they were in any era.
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#10 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:17 pm

and just to be clear, talent isn't something that you learn. You can refine your skills, but talent is innate.
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#11 » by peZt » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:20 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:and just to be clear, talent isn't something that you learn. You can refine your skills, but talent is innate.


That's also exactly what I mentioned in the post
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#12 » by Blame Rasho » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:23 pm

The tide changed when Boban came into the NBA. There isn’t anyone else that is more beloved than him. Heck… he is on ESPN and make a segment with Perkins somewhat watchable.
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#13 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:25 pm

peZt wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:and just to be clear, talent isn't something that you learn. You can refine your skills, but talent is innate.


That's also exactly what I mentioned in the post


If this is true, it contradicts everything you’ve said.

If talent is innate, then video games vs street ball vs aau has nothing to do with it
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: Why the US struggles to produce superstar talent 

Post#14 » by Blame Rasho » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:27 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:
you're comparing entire careers of prior players against guys who are just entering their prime lol.

Tatum is already 4x 1st team all-nba, Ant has 2 2nd team all nba and looks like he could be an MVP caliber player at 24.

Basketball is different now, the top players are just as talented as they were in any era.


Tatum and Ant for as good or talented as they are, aren’t anywhere near the level of players like Duncan, Kobe and etc in my perspective at same ages.

You can think otherwise… but it is a hard sell for people who have watched them throughout their career.

If you would have said SGA and Luka… yeah I can buy that.
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Re: Why the US struggles to produce superstar talent 

Post#15 » by jasonxxx102 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:34 pm

Blame Rasho wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
you're comparing entire careers of prior players against guys who are just entering their prime lol.

Tatum is already 4x 1st team all-nba, Ant has 2 2nd team all nba and looks like he could be an MVP caliber player at 24.

Basketball is different now, the top players are just as talented as they were in any era.


Tatum and Ant for as good or talented as they are, aren’t anywhere near the level of players like Duncan, Kobe and etc in my perspective at same ages.

You can think otherwise… but it is a hard sell for people who have watched them throughout their career.

If you would have said SGA and Luka… yeah I can buy that.


Well Shai is Canadian, which I think is close enough to consider the US but it was American stars only.

I absolutely believe Tatum and Ant are as talented as Kobe.
76ciology wrote:Wouldn't Edey have a better chance of winning the scoring battle against Tatum in the post after a switch than Tatum shooting over Edey's 9'6" standing reach?
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#16 » by peZt » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:36 pm

jasonxxx102 wrote:
peZt wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:and just to be clear, talent isn't something that you learn. You can refine your skills, but talent is innate.


That's also exactly what I mentioned in the post


If this is true, it contradicts everything you’ve said.

If talent is innate, then video games vs street ball vs aau has nothing to do with it


Of course it has. Or do you think that someone with talent naturally and automtaically becomes a pro? Like I said in the intial post, these things determine whether somebody becomes a pro or not

1) Physical traits – Will they have NBA level body and athleticism later on?
2) Work ethic – Do they have the necessary work ethic and drive to work on their game
3) Natural talent – Not everyone is born with the same talent, some learn faster, adapt quicker and so on
4) Quality of development – How good is the coaching, the youth development program, how are they developing their skills


You need talent, but talent that is not properly honed and developed and coached will not reach its full potential. Or to put it in NBA 2k terms: If somebody has potential and natural talent level of 99, this does not mean they will automatically become a level 99 player. There are other factors that determine the end level of a player. Factors that the player itself is controlling (work ethic) and outside factors like how the development is done, how he is coached, how he is trained. That's the entire reason and point of why european clubs spend millions in their youth departments, so that they can maximize the natural talent of the kids. That's the reason why certain countries are better at producing talent, even when all other factors are the same. Because they are better at a) recognizing and discovering talent and b) developing and and forming and maximizing this talent.
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#17 » by FrodoBaggins » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:49 pm

Heck, Kon Knueppel could be the Larry Bird of SG/SFs for all we know. The Team USA prospects could be looking real nice in a few years. Don't forget about Chet either. Or what about Cedric Coward? Lots of USA talent coming in at the moment.
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#18 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:52 pm

The US is producing tons or extremely good players, and that's the system.
To have someone reach tier 1 level is mostly about luck.
See Italy and tennis, nowadays. The system improved and they have now Berrettini, Sonego, Musetti, Cobolli... you can control that, creatong the right conditions. But to find a Sinner it's primarily luck.

If I look at the current top tier, I see
- physical freaks --> Giannis and Wemby
- absolute geniuses --> Luka and Jokic
- mix of the two --> Shai

If I look at the last 10 years, the physical freak (Zion) got lost (for now). Not sure about the other categories.
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#19 » by Ssj16 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:53 pm

I read the whole post and I think it's a very interesting premise. As some have mentioned hear, I heard problems with AAU basketball as well, in terms of not really fostering an environment to build similar American superstars of the past though this is anecdotal and Id have to do some research to pull up actual references to this.

Either way, in a vacuum, the current crop of American stars have not surpassed the last generation (Lebron, Durant, Curry etc) in terms of talent or even having the ability to have the same ceiling as those previous contemporaries, so you could be on to something.
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Re: The decline of superstar level development in US Basketball - How Fortnite and Minecraft killed US superstars 

Post#20 » by Fairview4Life » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:59 pm

As other countries spend more time and money playing a specific sport, they will produce better and better players and better compete with the initially dominant country. The US will still win best on best competitions more often than not. But the gap has been narrowing. Much like Canada in hockey. This has nothing to do with video games and much more to do with other countries having more people interested in and playing basketball.
9. Similarly, IF THOU HAST SPENT the entire offseason predicting that thy team will stink, thou shalt not gloat, nor even be happy, shouldst thou turn out to be correct. Realistic analysis is fine, but be a fan first, a smug smarty-pants second.

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