Kon Air: The Kon Knueppel Thread

[fatlever]

It just really confused me to see people saying that proved them wrong and they've changed their opinion on him etc. He has done exactly what any of us should have expected him to do based on how he has played in the past.

I mean did people really have that shockingly low expectations for him even after watching him and summer league?

I would say these first three games demonstrate what I would consider to be his floor as an NBA player... and pretty much exactly what I expected of him this season. 12 to 15 points a game on efficient shooting as a connective piece, making everyone better, always making the correct play, and being somewhere between passable and average on defense. And one of his most special abilities which is his incredibly quick decision-making with the ball. When the ball hits his hands he's already decided whether he's going to shoot, dribble, or pass. This is often where he gains a split second of Separation on his defender. Just watch how quick he makes decisions with the ball and that Advantage it gives him. It's how a slow player can gain an advantage on a quicker player.

The real question is and always should have been is HE capable of more? What does the next step in an improved kon look like? Off dribble 3s? More mid range? Learning how to bait for free throws? More on ball creation? Becoming a flamethrower from 3?

Or

How does he respond when he goes through his first extended shooting slump? How do the defenses adjust once they have more film to watch? What happens when he becomes an even more of a focal point of defensive attention?

All that to say, none of what he has shown should have changed anyone's opinions if they thought Ace or tre was ultimately the correct pick for this franchise. Because if you expected kon to be a stiff then that's on you. So if Ace or Tre was your guy because of their perceived higher ceilings, I don't think either of those players has shown anything to change that. Ace has clearly been sick and dealing with some knee problems to start the season. Honestly if he would have fired his agent long before the draft and not let his agent try to play Mind Games to land him in washington, I would have been so much more on board with Ace as a player for this franchise. And tre can just flat out shoot. With him it all comes down to the other stuff. Even fears looks so much better than he did in summer league.

I don't really think anyone else was in play with us for the fourth pick. At the end of the day several years from now this may go down as one of the deepest drafts of all time. This might have been a situation where we could have thrown a dart at the top 10 and landed a high quality player.





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[JMAC3]

Hes doing pretty much what I expected, but I still don't think he has any realistic chance of being a top 5 player from this class.
Hes doing a good job of hitting shots when he gets set up (which the team has been good at so far) and keeps the ball moving, but he isn't doing much outside of that (4.7 rebound, 1.3 assists, 0 blocks, 0.3 steals).

This is pretty much my opinion thus far, he is shooting the laces off the ball at 58% from three through 3 games. I hope it lasts for as long as possible, but if he was shooting 37% from three instead that would be about what expected (4 less makes so far or 12 pts). That would have his average at 11ppg instead of the current 15 ppg.

Outside of his shooting, he has 4 FTA in 3 games, 4 assists through 3 games, 7 turnovers through 3 games.

Defense he has been fine so far, but I think it is also important to realize we have played probably 3 non-playoff teams to start the year.

[vexco]

Also, I'm not sure what other people are seeing on defense when they watch him play. His lack of mobility is an obvious problem and Ive seen it get him into trouble multiple times in just a few games. I still think people are grading him on a curve and acting like hes doing good on defense just because he doesn't get burnt every play. edit: I don't think hes been terrible on D, but I still have serious questions and am not sure he'll ever be more than average.

The question of whether or not he is a good player is boring and obvious (he can obviously play and his shooting could be super elite). I think the more important question is whether or not he was worth the 4th pick in a very good draft class and thats the basis on which we should be judging whether or not he was the right pick.

I thought he did a good job of staying in front of Maxey and VJ who are both extremely quick with the ball. He used his body extremely well to not allow them to get good shots off at the rim.

I also don't know what you've seen from other players or him that would point to him not being able to be a top 5 player in this class.

[JMAC3]

Also, I'm not sure what other people are seeing on defense when they watch him play. His lack of mobility is an obvious problem and Ive seen it get him into trouble multiple times in just a few games. I still think people are grading him on a curve and acting like hes doing good on defense just because he doesn't get burnt every play. edit: I don't think hes been terrible on D, but I still have serious questions and am not sure he'll ever be more than average.

The question of whether or not he is a good player is boring and obvious (he can obviously play and his shooting could be super elite). I think the more important question is whether or not he was worth the 4th pick in a very good draft class and thats the basis on which we should be judging whether or not he was the right pick.

I thought he did a good job of staying in front of Maxey and VJ who are both extremely quick with the ball. He used his body extremely well to not allow them to get good shots off at the rim.

I also don't know what you've seen from other players or him that would point to him not being able to be a top 5 player in this class.

He wasn't on Maxey or Edgecombe a ton but when he was they were going at him. The last play for Philly was Kon on a switch with Maxey and Hornets told Mann to go help which left Grimes open for three and game winner.

[Braggins]

The question of whether or not he is a good player is boring and obvious (he can obviously play and his shooting could be super elite). I think the more important question is whether or not he was worth the 4th pick in a very good draft class and thats the basis on which we should be judging whether or not he was the right pick.

Then we should probably table the discussion for 3 or so years.

We won't know for sure for a few years, but I assume we'll all want to talk about it and how things are progressing. So far not much has happened that would be enough to change anyone from their baseline opinion on it yet. I probably overstated that a bit when I said the question of whether he is good or not is boring. I just meant whether or not hes a good player in general isn't as interesting to me (I think we all think he'll be at least solid).

So far my main takeaway from this class is that a lot of guys look interesting so far.

[Braggins]

Also, I'm not sure what other people are seeing on defense when they watch him play. His lack of mobility is an obvious problem and Ive seen it get him into trouble multiple times in just a few games. I still think people are grading him on a curve and acting like hes doing good on defense just because he doesn't get burnt every play. edit: I don't think hes been terrible on D, but I still have serious questions and am not sure he'll ever be more than average.

The question of whether or not he is a good player is boring and obvious (he can obviously play and his shooting could be super elite). I think the more important question is whether or not he was worth the 4th pick in a very good draft class and thats the basis on which we should be judging whether or not he was the right pick.

I thought he did a good job of staying in front of Maxey and VJ who are both extremely quick with the ball. He used his body extremely well to not allow them to get good shots off at the rim.

I also don't know what you've seen from other players or him that would point to him not being able to be a top 5 player in this class.

I don't think hes been bad or anything on defense so far, but he also hasn't been tested much and Ive seen some plays where hes struggled to stay with his man. His quick thinking and instincts help him get to his spots a hair quicker than youd expect, which helps, but he still really is quite slow moving his feet.

[driveandkick]

My initial comment wasn’t intended to rehash the conversations we had for months going back to last spring and into the summer. But by any way you look at it Kon has been spectacular so far. “He’s just doing what we expected” he is making like 60% of his three pointers right now. That of course isn’t sustainable but he might not just be a “really good” three point shooter he might be one of the best that has ever played this sport.

Either way, so much of this forum completely lost their minds on draft night and so far it’s impossible to say there was a better option on the board for our pick.

[Walt Cronkite]

Either way, so much of this forum completely lost their minds on draft night and so far it’s impossible to say there was a better option on the board for our pick.

The draft inspires overreactions. A lot of posters were pretty silly on the night of the lottery as well. Ex:

I’m serious fellas. I’m out. This league is not worth another second of my time.

If I wake up one day and our team is magically good I’ll maybe crawl back a little bit.

Kon's poise has been the thing I was wondering most about between SL and the early season. It's one thing to lead a team against fringe nba level professionals, another thing entirely to not get rattled by savvy vets. Similarly, I wondered if he would still be as capable driving with the ball against the bigger/faster true pros. You can tell he was a pg before the growth spurt and he's a joy to watch shoot the basketball.

Fully expect the tone of this thread to shift as soon as he enters a shooting slump.

[yosemiteben]

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[EmpireFalls]

We’re basically seeing peak Kon here. He’s at 95% of his ceiling already. I’m very glad he’s this good, but he won’t get much better.

[Walt Cronkite]

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should've been a 4 pt play.

[Liver_Pooty]

We’re basically seeing peak Kon here. He’s at 95% of his ceiling already. I’m very glad he’s this good, but he won’t get much better.

So you’re telling me someone that turned 20 in August is at 95 percent of their ceiling. Am I reading that right?

[LofJ]

This thread has gotten crazy. He's playing really well, led the team to the summer league championship, and killed it in college with and without Flagg. At 20 years old he already has elite skill and basketball IQ. What part of all that says this is the best he'll ever be?

[EmpireFalls]

We’re basically seeing peak Kon here. He’s at 95% of his ceiling already. I’m very glad he’s this good, but he won’t get much better.

So you’re telling me someone that turned 20 in August is at 95 percent of their ceiling. Am I reading that right?

This thread has gotten crazy. He's playing really well, led the team to the summer league championship, and killed it in college with and without Flagg. At 20 years old he already has elite skill and basketball IQ. What part of all that says this is the best he'll ever be?

It’s very simple. He has maxed out on the parts of the game that one can actually improve. He is limited by the ones that you can’t improve.

One cannot change their god-given physical tools. He’ll always be slow. He’ll always be unexplosive. He’ll always have a stubby frame and poor wingspan.

He’s maxed out on the “improvable” aspects of basketball. The IQ, the cutting, the moving, the feel, the shooting, skill development, it’s all there.

Short of him taking super solider PEDs he’s basically maxed himself out. He’s already so smart he makes every decision correctly. He’s already an elite shooter with a great handle and good passing.

There’s no real room for improvement on the “playing basketball” part for him. It’s only physical development, and again, unless we can inject him with some of Kai Jones athleticism, that ain’t improving.

[SWedd523]

We’re basically seeing peak Kon here. He’s at 95% of his ceiling already. I’m very glad he’s this good, but he won’t get much better.

So you’re telling me someone that turned 20 in August is at 95 percent of their ceiling. Am I reading that right?

Simultaneously today alone we've seen one person already anoint him as a multi time all-star and another day he might be one of the best shooters in history.

After 3 games.

I understand folks are starving for a win but damn.

[Liver_Pooty]

We’re basically seeing peak Kon here. He’s at 95% of his ceiling already. I’m very glad he’s this good, but he won’t get much better.

So you’re telling me someone that turned 20 in August is at 95 percent of their ceiling. Am I reading that right?

Simultaneously today alone we've seen one person already anoint him as a multi time all-star and another day he might be one of the best shooters in history.

After 3 games.

I understand folks are starving for a win but damn.

I get both sides but ****. Meet in the middle somewhere. I don’t think he’s going to be Steph curry but I at least don’t think he’s already maxed out at the age of 20 I mean damn.

[EmpireFalls]

OK geniuses explain this massive hidden ceiling Kon still has in front of him? What is he going to improve to become a much better player than he is now?

[fatlever]

area where kon could improve, in theory, without any improvements to his athletic profile:
- off dribble shooting (a weakness he highlighted that he was working on in draft cycle)
- midrange pull-up
- finishing thru contact
- avoiding longer defenders at rim (basically learning what he can/cant get away with)
- ball handling
- learning tendencies of opponents
- on ball creation
- baiting for free throws (the staple of old man offense)
- getting even stronger
- consistency
- conditioning

no way all of these are all 95% maxed out after 3 games into his rookie season
lets be reasonable

[yosemiteben]

OK geniuses explain this massive hidden ceiling Kon still has in front of him? What is he going to improve to become a much better player than he is now?

He turned 20 like 2 months ago. He just became a professional basketball player. He only played one year of college.

He's going to get better at everything.

[Chapelchilla]

area where kon could improve, in theory, without any improvements to his athletic profile:
- off dribble shooting (a weakness he highlighted that he was working on in draft cycle)
- midrange pull-up
- finishing thru contact
- avoiding longer defenders at rim (basically learning what he can/cant get away with)
- ball handling
- learning tendencies of opponents
- on ball creation
- baiting for free throws (the staple of old man offense)
- getting even stronger

no way all of these are all 95% maxed out after 3 games into his rookie season
lets be reasonable

YEP

Kon still has his baby fat and hasn't learned the nuances of pro ball, gotten used to the speed, developed the stamina to play 80 games etc.

But - he can and will get stronger, in better shape, learn how to play with fellow pro's, learn their best spots and in game habits, learn his opponents tendencies and weaknesses, tighten his handle, max out his pro range shooting skills, refine his go to moves etc etc. I would say that his smarts, good frame and work ethic will lead to Kon actually having more room to improve then some more "gifted" folks (looking at your Bouknight types).

He is probably at 75% of his max now and is still pretty good. Of course at some point this year he will almost have a slump shooting, or hit the rookie wall, maybe get sick or banged up, whatever and thats part of the learning process. We had some posters saying he would never be more then a low ceiling second rotation bench player. He is already better then that.