CMB or someone else?

[PushDaRock]

Flagg is still 18...his offensive game is very refined and he absolutely has the potential to develop a 1on1 game.

It doesn’t matter how old he is. He’s not a score first guy.

Not currently, but there's a reason he's the best prospect since Doncic.

ummmmm you do know Wemby exists right?

[PushDaRock]

I’m not sure why there’s a sentiment around Flagg that he’s similar to Scottie. Flagg as an 18 year old is already more polished on offence than Scottie is in year 5, like it’s not even close lol.

I think Cooper is going to be what BI is offensively with Scottie Barnes’s defence.

Respectfully, Flagg shows nothing that makes him comparable to BI. Like literally zero. They play nothing alike. They’re mostly opposite players.

As for why I think Flagg and Barnes are similar, it’s because they’re both versatile jack of all trades defensive guys who understand where the ball needs to go. Are they identical players? Of course not. But neither are guys who think score first when they have the ball and neither are guys who are really competent at breaking down the D with their dribble on the perimeter.

Again, the narrative around Flagg is bigger than his talent. That’s not to say he won’t be a really strong player in the league — he will be. But if you’re expecting a superstar who can lead his team by scoring the ball, well I have a bridge to sell you.

I mean respectfully Scottie at 18 isn’t doing this. Scottie is 5 years older than current Flagg and he can’t look this fluid on offence. I just don’t think they’re similar at all outside of their defensive skillset.

Scottie at 24 still isn't doing most of that stuff.

[elmer_yuck]

Isn’t this thread supposed to be about CMB?

[Tacoma]

I mean respectfully Scottie at 18 isn’t doing this. Scottie is 5 years older than current Flagg and he can’t look this fluid on offence. I just don’t think they’re similar at all outside of their defensive skillset.

Scottie is 6'9 with a wingspan of a 7 footer. He can't exactly move like a guard. It's kind of like when we were trying to make Bruno a wing but he was closer to a big man. Flagg doesn't have the defense, grab and go, and vision that Barnes has in transition. Players who can play intense defense and turn it into quick and minimal effort points are the best players in this league.

What is the basis that some are saying Flagg doesn't have defense? Flagg was ACC All-Defensive Team, ACC Defensive Player of the Year, and was a finalist for the Naismith National Defensive Player of the Year award in 2025. Speaks for itself. Meanwhile, Scottie has had no defensive honors.

And in no way am I bashing Scottie who's a very good defender, but saying Flagg "doesn't have the defense" is grasping at straws & untrue.

[HiJiNX]

Well time for me to jump back in here.

The main crux of my point about Flagg is he won’t be a superstar in the league because he won’t be a consistent and reliable three level iso scorer who you can give the rock at the end of games and say, “go get me a bucket”. I’m not the only one who thinks this.

Enter nbadraft.net scouting report, from three separate scouts.

Their ratings of Flagg’s strengths are everything we have already identified — defence, activity, IQ, scoring in the flow of the game, intangibles, etc. But when we look at the weaknesses:

“ Not a bad ball-handler for his size but doesn’t have great creativity off the bounce, particularly when handling on the perimeter at the moment where he can at times be too loose with the ball when faced with on-ball pressure … His development as an isolation scorer on the perimeter will determine just how high his scoring upside is, and that’s the biggest question about his offensive game currently even though he’s still obviously been scoring the ball just fine to put it mildly.”

“ Can tighten up as a ball-handler and navigating in traffic … Can improve creating in the half-court. Has room to expand scoring ability if he’s going to be the team’s focal offensive player in the NBA.”

“While Flagg is a good scorer and aggressive player, he is currently not an explosive scorer who will put 50 points on the board — important note for a player ranked as highly as Flagg… At this stage, while Flagg has plenty of tools on offense, defense is more his calling card … Form on his shot looks very promising, but still goes through cold spells shooting the ball and doesn’t hit the three ball with enough consistency yet … Jumpshot form can be inconsistent and a hair slow. It’s more of a set shot sometimes from three, but usually a jumpshot from mid range, which is fine but adds to some inconsistency …Handle is good enough to create off the dribble, but not an area where he excels. Can clean up in this area a bit to take his offensive game to the next level.”

So those are the weaknesses identified by all three scouts from nbadraft.net. Granted, three people is a small sample. But I think it says something that all three have similar outlooks on Flagg’s weaknesses.

Now just for fun, check out this quote:

“He is a lengthy frontcourt player who brings mismatch scoring skills, high level athleticism and intensity, offensive and defensive playmaking instincts, and a pedigree of winning and success to the table and the kinds of production and intangibles any team would love to build around.”

Who on our team does that kinda sorta sound like? Let’s take into account that regardless of how our fans feel about Scottie, this franchise has chosen to build around him.

All this to say, I might be wrong in my assessment of Flagg, but I’m not the only person who thinks what I think about him as a player.

[Yallbecrazy]

It doesn’t matter how old he is. He’s not a score first guy.

Not currently, but there's a reason he's the best prospect since Doncic.

ummmmm you do know Wemby exists right?

forgot about him.

[PhilBlackson]

I never had anything against CMB as a player or prospect...it was ALWAYS about the FIT with Scottie (period).

Because the whole "idea" is that we're supposedly building this all around him and if that was/is the truth then it still doesn't make a whole lotta sense even if CMB has been fantastic since they obviously have a significant redundancy in skillset/usage. No matter how they want to tap dance around it, it's going to come down with picking one or the other -- and that to me seemed like it made the path to another championship just more convoluted. Not to mention, the hope with vast majority of top 10 picks is they ATLEAST become starters (and most are even as rookies).

With that in mind...I know obviously there's no way to be sure, nor am I claiming any of the following players will be better (I'm sure CMB will be better than at least one, and it's possible he's the best of them) BUT I thought we would've/should've at the time taken one of Maluach, Bryant or Yang. There's just a much clearer path to them as starters and as a FIT around Scottie which again was supposedly what the FO said was the plan...

Now if that's not the truth and they've had some second thoughts about it (which SHOULD be the case until proven otherwise), then sure draft CMB buuut it's just about how mcuh more difficult sorting all of this out will be. Especially if Scottie's progression very likely REGRESSES while his contract sky rockets. But as for CMB as a player, I LOVE everything about his game minus obv his jumper, he just screams Playoff impact player and I think he's gonna be ironically one of my fav Raps moving forward - I just don't get the vision, if there is one of how him, Scottie (and Jakob) fit moving forward.

[MoneyBall]

This thread reminds of the old climbing game on the Price is Right. Until he falls off a cliff.

I'm not sure in what sense you mean that but I still gave you an and1 for the hilarious reference.

[Thaddy]

I mean respectfully Scottie at 18 isn’t doing this. Scottie is 5 years older than current Flagg and he can’t look this fluid on offence. I just don’t think they’re similar at all outside of their defensive skillset.

Scottie is 6'9 with a wingspan of a 7 footer. He can't exactly move like a guard. It's kind of like when we were trying to make Bruno a wing but he was closer to a big man. Flagg doesn't have the defense, grab and go, and vision that Barnes has in transition. Players who can play intense defense and turn it into quick and minimal effort points are the best players in this league.

What is the basis that some are saying Flagg doesn't have defense? Flagg was ACC All-Defensive Team, ACC Defensive Player of the Year, and was a finalist for the Naismith National Defensive Player of the Year award in 2025. Speaks for itself. Meanwhile, Scottie has had no defensive honors.

And in no way am I bashing Scottie who's a very good defender, but saying Flagg "doesn't have the defense" is grasping at straws & untrue.

Yeah he's not doing that in the NBA lol he's not the right combination of physically athletic, lengthy, strong, bulky, and agile. He has serious issues against athletic competition. Gabe Vincent took him to school.

[WhatsaTDot]

This thread reminds of the old climbing game on the Price is Right. Until he falls off a cliff.

I'm not sure in what sense you mean that but I still gave you an and1 for the hilarious reference.

I meant that we started at; "Is this the right guy at 9?" to "He's better than the guy everyone tanked for," until reality hits that he probably has a whole bunch of flaws and many will then hate him.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Well time for me to jump back in here.

The main crux of my point about Flagg is he won’t be a superstar in the league because he won’t be a consistent and reliable three level iso scorer who you can give the rock at the end of games and say, “go get me a bucket”. I’m not the only one who thinks this.

Enter nbadraft.net scouting report, from three separate scouts.

Their ratings of Flagg’s strengths are everything we have already identified — defence, activity, IQ, scoring in the flow of the game, intangibles, etc. But when we look at the weaknesses:

“ Not a bad ball-handler for his size but doesn’t have great creativity off the bounce, particularly when handling on the perimeter at the moment where he can at times be too loose with the ball when faced with on-ball pressure … His development as an isolation scorer on the perimeter will determine just how high his scoring upside is, and that’s the biggest question about his offensive game currently even though he’s still obviously been scoring the ball just fine to put it mildly.”

“ Can tighten up as a ball-handler and navigating in traffic … Can improve creating in the half-court. Has room to expand scoring ability if he’s going to be the team’s focal offensive player in the NBA.”

“While Flagg is a good scorer and aggressive player, he is currently not an explosive scorer who will put 50 points on the board — important note for a player ranked as highly as Flagg… At this stage, while Flagg has plenty of tools on offense, defense is more his calling card … Form on his shot looks very promising, but still goes through cold spells shooting the ball and doesn’t hit the three ball with enough consistency yet … Jumpshot form can be inconsistent and a hair slow. It’s more of a set shot sometimes from three, but usually a jumpshot from mid range, which is fine but adds to some inconsistency …Handle is good enough to create off the dribble, but not an area where he excels. Can clean up in this area a bit to take his offensive game to the next level.”

So those are the weaknesses identified by all three scouts from nbadraft.net. Granted, three people is a small sample. But I think it says something that all three have similar outlooks on Flagg’s weaknesses.

Now just for fun, check out this quote:

“He is a lengthy frontcourt player who brings mismatch scoring skills, high level athleticism and intensity, offensive and defensive playmaking instincts, and a pedigree of winning and success to the table and the kinds of production and intangibles any team would love to build around.”

Who on our team does that kinda sorta sound like? Let’s take into account that regardless of how our fans feel about Scottie, this franchise has chosen to build around him.

All this to say, I might be wrong in my assessment of Flagg, but I’m not the only person who thinks what I think about him as a player.

Keep in mind these are all takes from him as a teenager from the same scouting source. I don't know when those assessments were made, but he had 42 against Notre Dame. He was absolutely a 3 level scorer at Duke. Now, early on he's a high school era player in the NBA. It's hard to put up great numbers at that age.

[bballsparkin]

Flagg is not by any means already a better defined player than Scottie barnes, that is crazy. Flagg has barely shown flashes of being a glorified Terrence Ross, he should start with this ceiling first.

You had me at the first sentence. Lost me with the second one.

Terrence Ross is closer to Scottie Barnes than Cooper Flagg is to Terrence Ross, Flagg will surpass both these players but hasnt done anything yet to be a better defined player than Scottie already.. thats just malpractice lol

Yeah, I hear you. It shouldn't take Flagg long to move up the ranks. But he's a snotty nose rookie until proven otherwise. That's the way it goes.

[VanWest82]

I reject the premise that Scottie and CMB can't play together or don't fit together and we'll have to eventually pick between them. Maybe that's how it works out eventually, but it's way too early to say that.

Also, I'm very much looking forward to them at the 4/5 defensively. With our abundance of ball handlers, we may get to see a version of our 6'9 line up that actually works!

I like the potential of SB/RJ/GD/BI/CMB but if Gradey can't hold up defensively then Ochai works.

Obviously IQ will play a lot including in small line ups, but the all 6'9 could be a nice two-way option when Quickly is off the floor and opponent is above Shead's pay grade.

[Jim Todd Jr.]

Will answer once he plays a game

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

CMB is easily one of the top 3 players in the draft. Masai did it again

Nice joke kid HAHAHA needed a good laugh

[Thaddy]

CMB is easily one of the top 3 players in the draft. Masai did it again

Nice joke kid HAHAHA needed a good laugh

Why do you think he sucks?

[Rapsfan07]

Having observed summer league & preseason and before the regular season starts, I'd like to ask would you still take CMB or someone else - I'd take Hansen Yang because of the Raptors lack centre depth and his intriguing offensive potential, no hate on CMB.

I thought the Raptors were lucky that Coward was still on the board and instead decided to go with CMB. It's late October and I still can't make sense of it - especially when you consider that we already have two guys on the team of similar physical profile, skillset, strengths and weaknesses. It gets even more confusing when you consider roster, play style and fit.

I don't hate CMB but this pick was one of the most confusing made in recent memory, along with Mogbo who we took when Mitchell was still on the board. At best, you have another Barnes (working with/around one of them is hard enough) and at worst you have bench big when you could have gotten a Bridges type starting SG, allowing you to consolidate Barrett and at least one of Dick, Agbaji or Walter into something else and cutting a ton of money off the payroll as well.

I felt like Mitchell and Coward were no brainers but hey, what do I know?

[Potential]

CMB is easily one of the top 3 players in the draft. Masai did it again

Nice joke kid HAHAHA needed a good laugh

Whats so funny

[Psubs]

Will answer once he plays a game

He's too small to guard Flagg. He's probably best at covering SF's like Kawhi. I guess he could be the next Jimmy Butler but it will take a while.

[Basketball_Jones]

Having observed summer league & preseason and before the regular season starts, I'd like to ask would you still take CMB or someone else - I'd take Hansen Yang because of the Raptors lack centre depth and his intriguing offensive potential, no hate on CMB.

I thought the Raptors were lucky that Coward was still on the board and instead decided to go with CMB. It's late October and I still can't make sense of it - especially when you consider that we already have two guys on the team of similar physical profile, skillset, strengths and weaknesses. It gets even more confusing when you consider roster, play style and fit.

I don't hate CMB but this pick was one of the most confusing made in recent memory, along with Mogbo who we took when Mitchell was still on the board. At best, you have another Barnes (working with/around one of them is hard enough) and at worst you have bench big when you could have gotten a Bridges type starting SG, allowing you to consolidate Barrett and at least one of Dick, Agbaji or Walter into something else and cutting a ton of money off the payroll as well.

I felt like Mitchell and Coward were no brainers but hey, what do I know?

Coward was my pick too and he’s looking good. We’ll see though, it’s 3 games and we’d better hope one of Gradey or Walter’s pans out here.