Kon Air: The Kon Knueppel Thread

[Chapelchilla]

area where kon could improve, in theory, without any improvements to his athletic profile:
- off dribble shooting (a weakness he highlighted that he was working on in draft cycle)
- midrange pull-up
- finishing thru contact
- avoiding longer defenders at rim (basically learning what he can/cant get away with)
- ball handling
- learning tendencies of opponents
- on ball creation
- baiting for free throws (the staple of old man offense)
- getting even stronger

no way all of these are all 95% maxed out after 3 games into his rookie season
lets be reasonable

YEP

Kon still has his baby fat and hasn't learned the nuances of pro ball, gotten used to the speed, developed the stamina to play 80 games etc.

But - he can and will get stronger, in better shape, learn how to play with fellow pro's, learn their best spots and in game habits, learn his opponents tendencies and weaknesses, tighten his handle, max out his pro range shooting skills, refine his go to moves etc etc. I would say that his smarts, good frame and work ethic will lead to Kon actually having more room to improve then some more "gifted" folks (looking at your Bouknight types).

He is probably at 75% of his max now and is still pretty good. Of course at some point this year he will almost certainly have a slump shooting, or hit the rookie wall, maybe get sick or banged up, whatever and thats part of the learning process. We had some posters saying he would never be more then a low ceiling second rotation bench player. He is already better then that.

[amcoolio]

He needs to get to the line, that should be the first thing he works on

[SWedd523]

He's a 50% FT shooter. Clearly through 3 games we can surmise that he's terrible

[luciano-davidwesley]

We’re basically seeing peak Kon here. He’s at 95% of his ceiling already. I’m very glad he’s this good, but he won’t get much better.

So you’re telling me someone that turned 20 in August is at 95 percent of their ceiling. Am I reading that right?

This thread has gotten crazy. He's playing really well, led the team to the summer league championship, and killed it in college with and without Flagg. At 20 years old he already has elite skill and basketball IQ. What part of all that says this is the best he'll ever be?

It’s very simple. He has maxed out on the parts of the game that one can actually improve. He is limited by the ones that you can’t improve.

One cannot change their god-given physical tools. He’ll always be slow. He’ll always be unexplosive. He’ll always have a stubby frame and poor wingspan.

He’s maxed out on the “improvable” aspects of basketball. The IQ, the cutting, the moving, the feel, the shooting, skill development, it’s all there.

Short of him taking super solider PEDs he’s basically maxed himself out. He’s already so smart he makes every decision correctly. He’s already an elite shooter with a great handle and good passing.

There’s no real room for improvement on the “playing basketball” part for him. It’s only physical development, and again, unless we can inject him with some of Kai Jones athleticism, that ain’t improving.

Did Nikola Jokic not keep improving the intangible parts of his game throughout his career after he was drafted?

I can't agree Kon has maxed out his BBall IQ, intangibles and "playing basketball" skills at this point, though I concede he may be higher up the plateau of them than others. However, some guys don't improve at all while others keep squeezing more juice out of the orange for years.

Anyway can we at least wait until he is 10 games in before we make conclusions on his exact ceiling and floor?

[Liver_Pooty]

So you’re telling me someone that turned 20 in August is at 95 percent of their ceiling. Am I reading that right?

This thread has gotten crazy. He's playing really well, led the team to the summer league championship, and killed it in college with and without Flagg. At 20 years old he already has elite skill and basketball IQ. What part of all that says this is the best he'll ever be?

It’s very simple. He has maxed out on the parts of the game that one can actually improve. He is limited by the ones that you can’t improve.

One cannot change their god-given physical tools. He’ll always be slow. He’ll always be unexplosive. He’ll always have a stubby frame and poor wingspan.

He’s maxed out on the “improvable” aspects of basketball. The IQ, the cutting, the moving, the feel, the shooting, skill development, it’s all there.

Short of him taking super solider PEDs he’s basically maxed himself out. He’s already so smart he makes every decision correctly. He’s already an elite shooter with a great handle and good passing.

There’s no real room for improvement on the “playing basketball” part for him. It’s only physical development, and again, unless we can inject him with some of Kai Jones athleticism, that ain’t improving.

Did Nikola Jokic not keep improving the intangible parts of his game throughout his career after he was drafted?

I can't agree Kon has maxed out his BBall IQ, intangibles and "playing basketball" skills at this point, though I concede he may be higher up the plateau of them than others. However, some guys don't improve at all while others keep squeezing more juice out of the orange for years.

Anyway can we at least wait until he is 10 games in before we make conclusions on his exact ceiling and floor?

I’d prefer 3 to 4 years. But yeah lol.

[vexco]

Also, I'm not sure what other people are seeing on defense when they watch him play. His lack of mobility is an obvious problem and Ive seen it get him into trouble multiple times in just a few games. I still think people are grading him on a curve and acting like hes doing good on defense just because he doesn't get burnt every play. edit: I don't think hes been terrible on D, but I still have serious questions and am not sure he'll ever be more than average.

The question of whether or not he is a good player is boring and obvious (he can obviously play and his shooting could be super elite). I think the more important question is whether or not he was worth the 4th pick in a very good draft class and thats the basis on which we should be judging whether or not he was the right pick.

I thought he did a good job of staying in front of Maxey and VJ who are both extremely quick with the ball. He used his body extremely well to not allow them to get good shots off at the rim.

I also don't know what you've seen from other players or him that would point to him not being able to be a top 5 player in this class.

He wasn't on Maxey or Edgecombe a ton but when he was they were going at him. The last play for Philly was Kon on a switch with Maxey and Hornets told Mann to go help which left Grimes open for three and game winner.

Outside of the first quarter, where Maxey couldn't miss, what did they accomplish by "going at him"? I remember at least 2 plays where VJ/Maxey had a step and drove and Kon bodied them off the position near the rim.

[vexco]

We’re basically seeing peak Kon here. He’s at 95% of his ceiling already. I’m very glad he’s this good, but he won’t get much better.

Yes, a rookie is at 95% of his ceiling already. At 20 years old. You really cracked the case.

[luciano-davidwesley]

It’s very simple. He has maxed out on the parts of the game that one can actually improve. He is limited by the ones that you can’t improve.

One cannot change their god-given physical tools. He’ll always be slow. He’ll always be unexplosive. He’ll always have a stubby frame and poor wingspan.

He’s maxed out on the “improvable” aspects of basketball. The IQ, the cutting, the moving, the feel, the shooting, skill development, it’s all there.

Short of him taking super solider PEDs he’s basically maxed himself out. He’s already so smart he makes every decision correctly. He’s already an elite shooter with a great handle and good passing.

There’s no real room for improvement on the “playing basketball” part for him. It’s only physical development, and again, unless we can inject him with some of Kai Jones athleticism, that ain’t improving.

Did Nikola Jokic not keep improving the intangible parts of his game throughout his career after he was drafted?

I can't agree Kon has maxed out his BBall IQ, intangibles and "playing basketball" skills at this point, though I concede he may be higher up the plateau of them than others. However, some guys don't improve at all while others keep squeezing more juice out of the orange for years.

Anyway can we at least wait until he is 10 games in before we make conclusions on his exact ceiling and floor?

I’d prefer 3 to 4 years. But yeah lol.

I said that firmly tongue in cheek

[Liver_Pooty]

He's a 50% FT shooter. Clearly through 3 games we can surmise that he's terrible

This made me giggle good.

[HornetJail]

Moussa is shooting better than that even with that awful Philly game lol

Is Kon a worse offensive player than moose?

[JMAC3]

Kon is shooting 60% from three, if you take that away he isn't doing anything special right now. That is kind of the point, yes he might improve in other areas but 3 games in he isn't doing anything that the scouting report said he wouldn't do. Free throws, playmaking, defense and getting to the rim have all been pretty minimal.

If he had a game where he had 6 assists and 8 FTA and scored 15+ points I would be more excited than a game where he just shot really well and scored 20.

There is a reason that his PER is 11.5 which ranks 11/13 out of players that have touched the floor. Despite his amazing shooting percentages he isn't impacting the game in other areas.

[vorbis]

3 games.

[JMAC3]

3 games.

Yes, that is what I am saying. 3 Games is not enough to make me massively change my opinion on him as a player, especially when he isn't breaking the glass ceiling as a passer, finisher, defender etc that caused me to put the ceiling concerns on him to start with.

I hope he shoots 55% from three all year and if he does he will be a great pick no matter what, however I think we all know the shot will come and go and like it does for most and hopefully he finishes close to 40% for the year.

[Chapelchilla]

Looks like we are going to be getting a whole lot of Kon/Sion/Liam so we will have plenty of time to dissect rookies stats

[vorbis]

3 games.

Yes, that is what I am saying. 3 Games is not enough to make me massively change my opinion on him as a player, especially when he isn't breaking the glass ceiling as a passer, finisher, defender etc that caused me to put the ceiling concerns on him to start with.

I hope he shoots 55% from three all year and if he does he will be a great pick no matter what, however I think we all know the shot will come and go and like it does for most and hopefully he finishes close to 40% for the year.

wasn't addressing that at you, as you weren't saying anything that was outlandishly definitive about a player who has played 3 games

[yosemiteben]

Kon is shooting 60% from three, if you take that away he isn't doing anything special right now.

I don't feel like you can be watching these games and not feel his impact on both ends of the floor. That's what I find special, especially in light of how skeptical people were that he'd even be able to stay on the floor.

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

small sample size alert. but interesting.

[JMAC3]

Read on Twitter

small sample size alert. but interesting.

Anfernee Simons for Defensive Player of the year!

[JMAC3]

Kon is shooting 60% from three, if you take that away he isn't doing anything special right now.

I don't feel like you can be watching these games and not feel his impact on both ends of the floor. That's what I find special, especially in light of how skeptical people were that he'd even be able to stay on the floor.

Yes, my eyes and PER are both broken... are we really going to play this game? "oH yOu MuSt NoT wAtCh ThE gAmE" if you are going to provide statistical analysis. Instead, let's all lose our minds over three games vs Philly, Brooklyn and Washington. Then on the flip side we can all freak out that the coach and team are awful once we lose two games in a row.

What exactly is he impacting on the defensive end? He has 1 steal, 0 blocks and hasn't been deployed as a POA defender at all.

On offense he has the 8th highest usage on the team, he has the 11th highest assist %.

but Yes I must not be watching the game. It can't possibly be you constantly looking for and completely overreacting for any reason to be positive on Kon throughout games.

[countryboi]

I had very low expectations of Kon, its not like we have the most positive draft history but he fits this team very well. His physical limitations feels like something teams would try to exploit but he seems to be a decent defender. If miller is done for the year, maybe we can move forward to Kon and look to move Miller in the off season