Game 4: Denver at Minnesota, 8:30 pm (Peacock)

[Guest84]

Wasn’t able to watch but I just checked the box score. Who was guarding Murray? Also, it seemed like Jaden was stuck on 25 since the 3rd??

Joker only missed 1 shot all game huh…smh.

The next couple of weeks are going to be difficult. This team needs another go to player. I say go after a Fox, Ja, etc.

We have too many guys that only do one thing well. Unfortunately, it would take a fan favorite to prob get something done.

[Calinks]

Letting all of these players drop 40 pieces on us and giving up 40+ point quarters has GOT to stop. It's a shooters paradise when you play Minnesota right now.

[winforlose]

Letting all of these players drop 40 pieces on us and giving up 40+ point quarters has GOT to stop. It's a shooters paradise when you play Minnesota right now.

They were mocking our defense before the game. Turns out they were being generous.

[winforlose]

Wasn’t able to watch but I just checked the box score. Who was guarding Murray? Also, it seemed like Jaden was stuck on 25 since the 3rd??

Joker only missed 1 shot all game huh…smh.

The next couple of weeks are going to be difficult. This team needs another go to player. I say go after a Fox, Ja, etc.

We have too many guys that only do one thing well. Unfortunately, it would take a fan favorite to prob get something done.

Jaden was guarding him. They would screen him and then rescreen if he fought through. No one would help and Murray got a ton of open shots. Plus THJ got a few uncontested 3s.

Jaden was getting to the rim easily. Then he made two bad passes off the drive and lost all of his confidence. Never was a factor after that. Someone get Jaden a sports therapist. I mean seriously has no one on the coaching staff seen Ted Lasso?

[FrenchMinnyFan]

All is not bad. First half was great, 3 rd quarter was awful and kill us . Without ANT it’s tough and we don’t have a real scoring leader. Randle play well, Jaden slow down in second. Still job to do…

[winforlose]

All is not bad. First half was great, 3 rd quarter was awful and kill us . Without ANT it’s tough and we don’t have a real scoring leader. Randle play well, Jaden slow down in second. Still job to do…

The problem is we keep making the same mistakes. Our defense without Rudy is not playoff worthy. Even with Rudy we get killed by hot shooters.

[Klomp]

All is not bad. First half was great, 3 rd quarter was awful and kill us . Without ANT it’s tough and we don’t have a real scoring leader. Randle play well, Jaden slow down in second. Still job to do…

The problem is we keep making the same mistakes. Our defense without Rudy is not playoff worthy. Even with Rudy we get killed by hot shooters.

Shocking that a team's weakness is their weakness.

[winforlose]

All is not bad. First half was great, 3 rd quarter was awful and kill us . Without ANT it’s tough and we don’t have a real scoring leader. Randle play well, Jaden slow down in second. Still job to do…

The problem is we keep making the same mistakes. Our defense without Rudy is not playoff worthy. Even with Rudy we get killed by hot shooters.

Shocking that a team's weakness is their weakness.

“True things sound true.” Watch the diplomat if you haven’t seen it. Finch refuses to try new things to fix it. When you keep making the same mistake over and over it stops being a mistake, it becomes a choice.

[younggunsmn]

Well the first half was pretty good.
And the 2nd half..... was what I expected the whole game to look like honestly.
Very mid-effort game from Jokic and he still killed us.
Johnson and Braun were giving them nothing and it was a good move to go to Hardaway and Watson more.
So nice job lever pulling from Adelman tonight.
Valanciunas going to be a very valuable piece this year to spell Jokic and his screen setting ability in that offense will fit very nicely.
They still are a very average to bad defensive team though.

28 disastrous minutes at a premium position from Bones Hyland and Rob Dillingham.
That's going to kill us every single night going forward.

Learning pains for TJ.
Bad shooting from Dante.

Naz Reid had a pretty good game on both ends after putting up some real turds to start the season.
Mike looked like his old self in the first half and then we went away from him in the 2nd half with disastrous results.

The offensive still grinds to a screeching halt as soon as Rudy Gobert steps onto the court.
3+ years to adjust and it is still just painful to watch.

But the atrocious, bottom of the league, defensive scheme and execution to me is the biggest downer so far this season.
We have no ability at all to defend on the perimeter and defend the high screen and rolls in the worst possible way almost every single time.

Going under on Jamal Murray? check.
No help at all from the guy setting the screen? check.
No help at the nail when contain breaks? check.
getting in passing lanes to open shooters? nope.

There are many ways you can effectively defend a high pick and roll.
You can hedge, you can trap, you can switch.
The primary defender can force the player to reject the screen and drive into a loaded up slot defender.
If you're a really good defensive team with smart players, like say OKC, you can mix and match as you please to confuse and slow down the other team's attack and create turnovers.

We manage to not do any of it, or try to do it horribly horribly bad.
And the worst part is that even with a security blanket like Rudy Gobert guarding the paint we are still so disgustingly passive guarding the perimeter.

Maybe part of that is playing so many guys constantly out of position because your GM f'd up the roster construction of the team so horribly.

[Klomp]

The problem is we keep making the same mistakes. Our defense without Rudy is not playoff worthy. Even with Rudy we get killed by hot shooters.

Shocking that a team's weakness is their weakness.

“True things sound true.” Watch the diplomat if you haven’t seen it. Finch refuses to try new things to fix it. When you keep making the same mistake over and over it stops being a mistake, it becomes a choice.

Right, a choice that has gotten the franchise to consecutive conference finals. Almost like they have a game plan to lean into certain aspects and be okay with other aspects.

[winforlose]

Shocking that a team's weakness is their weakness.

“True things sound true.” Watch the diplomat if you haven’t seen it. Finch refuses to try new things to fix it. When you keep making the same mistake over and over it stops being a mistake, it becomes a choice.

Right, a choice that has gotten the franchise to consecutive conference finals. Almost like they have a game plan to lean into certain aspects and be okay with other aspects.

A different team than the one we are talking about, but since you want to go there. How many teams hang banners for going to the Conference championship? How many teams go home happy that they got gentleman’s swept in consecutive years in the same series. Either you think we lack talent and you therefore credit Finch for finding a way to drag us to the WCF, or you realize we have incredible talent, who often underachieve. Look no further than Jaden offensively to prove the point. But to be fair TC is also to blame. His poor planning and whiffing on 1st round picks also put us in our current hole. Unless you plan to ride last years accomplishment all season?

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Well the first half was pretty good.
And the 2nd half..... was what I expected the whole game to look like honestly.
Very mid-effort game from Jokic and he still killed us.
Johnson and Braun were giving them nothing and it was a good move to go to Hardaway and Watson more.
So nice job lever pulling from Adelman tonight.
Valanciunas going to be a very valuable piece this year to spell Jokic and his screen setting ability in that offense will fit very nicely.
They still are a very average to bad defensive team though.

28 disastrous minutes at a premium position from Bones Hyland and Rob Dillingham.
That's going to kill us every single night going forward.

Learning pains for TJ.
Bad shooting from Dante.

Naz Reid had a pretty good game on both ends after putting up some real turds to start the season.
Mike looked like his old self in the first half and then we went away from him in the 2nd half with disastrous results.

The offensive still grinds to a screeching halt as soon as Rudy Gobert steps onto the court.
3+ years to adjust and it is still just painful to watch.

But the atrocious, bottom of the league, defensive scheme and execution to me is the biggest downer so far this season.
We have no ability at all to defend on the perimeter and defend the high screen and rolls in the worst possible way almost every single time.

Going under on Jamal Murray? check.
No help at all from the guy setting the screen? check.
No help at the nail when contain breaks? check.
getting in passing lanes to open shooters? nope.

There are many ways you can effectively defend a high pick and roll.
You can hedge, you can trap, you can switch.
The primary defender can force the player to reject the screen and drive into a loaded up slot defender.
If you're a really good defensive team with smart players, like say OKC, you can mix and match as you please to confuse and slow down the other team's attack and create turnovers.

We manage to not do any of it, or try to do it horribly horribly bad.
And the worst part is that even with a security blanket like Rudy Gobert guarding the paint we are still so disgustingly passive guarding the perimeter.

Maybe part of that is playing so many guys constantly out of position because your GM f'd up the roster construction of the team so horribly.

All is say. Nothing to add. Time for Finch to realize we wont be good enough even when ANT Back .It's way too early to hit the panic button but we have the same problem over and over since 2 years and 2 WCF does not mean they don't have to be addressed. In any business, you don't wait to have the nose on the wall to make changes...

- DDV is not a PG, Bones and ROB are not good enough, one have never been consistent all his career and Rob need to learn much more.
- Relying on a 38 old PG as our smarter player is suicide strategy. Mike start to find his rhythm ( tonight we sunk when he sit) but he is not a starter caliber anymore. 18-20 min from the bench is where he will be useful.
- When Rudy sit, our defense is near bottom of the league. Same when Jaden slow down....

Let's play another 20 games with this roster but unless things improved dramatically, FO will have to find a way to improve it. 2 options for me : A starter PG ( not easy to find with our financial situation) or any player who play good defense.

[Klomp]

A different team than the one we are talking about, but since you want to go there. How many teams hang banners for going to the Conference championship? How many teams go home happy that they got gentleman’s swept in consecutive years in the same series. Either you think we lack talent and you therefore credit Finch for finding a way to drag us to the WCF, or you realize we have incredible talent, who often underachieve. Look no further than Jaden offensively to prove the point. But to be fair TC is also to blame. His poor planning and whiffing on 1st round picks also put us in our current hole. Unless you plan to ride last years accomplishment all season?

Of course I'm not hanging banners, but I'm also not putting Chris Finch in the same category as Ryan Saunders, Sam Mitchell, Bill Musselman, Randy Wittman, Bill Blair, Sidney Lowe, Kurt Rambis and Jimmy Rodgers.

[Klomp]

Detroit thought Rick Carlisle wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Sacramento thought Michael Malone wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Indiana thought Frank Vogel wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Atlanta thought Mike Budenholzer wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.

[BlacJacMac]

Detroit thought Rick Carlisle wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Sacramento thought Michael Malone wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Indiana thought Frank Vogel wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Atlanta thought Mike Budenholzer wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.

Just for the sake of argument, now do all the coaches people thought would be championship-level coaches. But weren't.

[Klomp]

Detroit thought Rick Carlisle wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Sacramento thought Michael Malone wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Indiana thought Frank Vogel wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Atlanta thought Mike Budenholzer wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.

Just for the sake of argument, now do all the coaches people thought would be championship-level coaches. But weren't.

I hate to break it to you, but winning a championship is hard.

I don't think there is a massive coaching gap between Finch and the guys above. They've won championships, but they have also been fired. Really, I think there are maybe two or three coaches at the top of the list of coaches. Then, there are probably 10-20 on a very similar level of coaching acumen, with the only thing separating them is team success, competent management and level of consistency. Finch is in that group. Yes, he has his warts, but there is also a level of consistency. That allows the front office to add players accordingly. People like to say NBA coaches should completely change up their schemes every year based on their personnel, but that doesn't help management identify the play styles that will fit the schemes best.

[Araxen]

All is not bad. First half was great, 3 rd quarter was awful and kill us . Without ANT it’s tough and we don’t have a real scoring leader. Randle play well, Jaden slow down in second. Still job to do…

Randle is really our only consistent scorer on team now with Ant out. The way our offense is ran it's hard for other guys to get open so they get going. We won't run set plays. It's this stupid flow of offense which our team struggles with due to IQ issues and a lack of a quality floor general aka a PG.

With that said, this was the 2nd game of a back to back and the Indiana game was a tough game. I'm sure the guys were tired. When we fell off is when teams usually do in the 2nd game.

[BlacJacMac]

Detroit thought Rick Carlisle wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Sacramento thought Michael Malone wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Indiana thought Frank Vogel wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.
Atlanta thought Mike Budenholzer wasn't a championship-level coach. He was.

Just for the sake of argument, now do all the coaches people thought would be championship-level coaches. But weren't.

I hate to break it to you, but winning a championship is hard.

I don't think there is a massive coaching gap between Finch and the guys above. They've won championships, but they have also been fired. Really, I think there are maybe two or three coaches at the top of the list of coaches. Then, there are probably 10-20 on a very similar level of coaching acumen, with the only thing separating them is team success, competent management and level of consistency. Finch is in that group. Yes, he has his warts, but there is also a level of consistency. That allows the front office to add players accordingly. People like to say NBA coaches should completely change up their schemes every year based on their personnel, but that doesn't help management identify the play styles that will fit the schemes best.

And a sample size of 4 is insignificant.

[jpatrick]

We need a PG. DDV is not a PG. Conley shouldn’t be playing, really at all. Bones/Dilly, ugh. I think having a true PG, hopefully one that can create somewhat, would help the offense in Rudy minutes. And if he isnt a complete defensive sieve, like Conley, Dilly, and Bones, that’d help in the non-Rudy minutes.

I actually havent looked at advanced numbers, but I thought Bones was okay defensively so far.

I can only think of one name: Nembhard. I just hope I do keeps losing and decides to go in all out tank mode. The top of the upcoming draft is very good Pacers, just saying.

[Note30]

Just for the sake of argument, now do all the coaches people thought would be championship-level coaches. But weren't.

I hate to break it to you, but winning a championship is hard.

I don't think there is a massive coaching gap between Finch and the guys above. They've won championships, but they have also been fired. Really, I think there are maybe two or three coaches at the top of the list of coaches. Then, there are probably 10-20 on a very similar level of coaching acumen, with the only thing separating them is team success, competent management and level of consistency. Finch is in that group. Yes, he has his warts, but there is also a level of consistency. That allows the front office to add players accordingly. People like to say NBA coaches should completely change up their schemes every year based on their personnel, but that doesn't help management identify the play styles that will fit the schemes best.

And a sample size of 4 is insignificant.

Vogel is the only name that doesn't really hold up well there.

From 2011-2025 there have only been

Spo, Pop, Kerr, Lue, Nurse, Daigenault, outside the 4 listed. 4 out of 10 is a large sample size.

And out of them, Nurse, Carlisle, Malone and Buldenholzer were the only ones to win a championship without multiple top HOF players.