Toronto needs a new Center

[ciueli]

This thread just underscores one thing:

Without a healthy Poeltl we are screwed.
What we witnessed the last two season is also true this year, without him, we are very bad at defense.

We all should pray and hope its nothing serious, cause if Poeltl regressed that much in just 2-3 months we are in deep trouble.
But i have hope, cause he never had a major injury, even if the one month in january 23, were he sat, was not a big issue.

So it might not be a big issue now. Sadly, we need patience.

Jak was always going to be the single point of failure for this season since C was the position of least depth on this team, having him play at the level he did last season was going to be absolutely critical to the success of the team this season.

But after the back issues he had last season it should have been obvious he couldn't be relied on to stay healthy. The front office needed to come up with a solid plan B in case Jak missed a significant number of games and they didn't. Instead doubled down on Jak as the starter for at least the next 4 seasons, that contract extension is now quite likely an albatross if Jak never really recovers or continues to age poorly, this team is in very deep trouble going forward if Jak is basically washed.

As for patience... I really don't look forward to waiting until 2029-2030 for Jak to come off the books, even then they still have to pay him the $5M of guaranteed money in the last year of that contract. Just a horrible decision, there was really no reason to rush a contract extension, they've ruined this franchise with multiple overpay contracts to marginal talent over the last few years.

[LoveMyRaps]

I've been super critical of Poeltl and he's been extremely frustrating to watch.

But give the guy (and the rest of the team) at least 10 games before jumping to conclusions.

[canada_dry]

He has a bad back. Read the news and updates on the teams or something...

Maybe sit him a week till hes healthy and play cmb more. Idk.

Poetl is obviously critical to our defense being even halfway decent.

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[LoveMyRaps]

The fact that we screwed two drafts in obtaining him makes it all the more difficult to accept.

Definitely do not regret drafting CMB over Maluach. That was the right decision.

But we should've at least drafted a center with our other picks. Like why draft Martin, when your team is already bombarded with undersized guards?

[Shakril]

This thread just underscores one thing:

Without a healthy Poeltl we are screwed.
What we witnessed the last two season is also true this year, without him, we are very bad at defense.

We all should pray and hope its nothing serious, cause if Poeltl regressed that much in just 2-3 months we are in deep trouble.
But i have hope, cause he never had a major injury, even if the one month in january 23, were he sat, was not a big issue.

So it might not be a big issue now. Sadly, we need patience.

Jak was always going to be the single point of failure for this season since C was the position of least depth on this team, having him play at the level he did last season was going to be absolutely critical to the success of the team this season.

But after the back issues he had last season it should have been obvious he couldn't be relied on to stay healthy. The front office needed to come up with a solid plan B in case Jak missed a significant number of games and they didn't. Instead doubled down on Jak as the starter for at least the next 4 seasons, that contract extension is now quite likely an albatross if Jak never really recovers or continues to age poorly, this team is in very deep trouble going forward if Jak is basically washed.

As for patience... I really don't look forward to waiting until 2029-2030 for Jak to come off the books, even then they still have to pay him the $5M of guaranteed money in the last year of that contract. Just a horrible decision, there was really no reason to rush a contract extension, they've ruined this franchise with multiple overpay contracts to marginal talent over the last few years.

I agree with the most parts.

What i meant with patience is that maybe in 2 or 3 Weeks, Yak is back to what we want him to be. I am not talking about years.

[ciueli]

I've been super critical of Poeltl and he's been extremely frustrating to watch.

But give the guy (and the rest of the team) at least 10 games before jumping to conclusions.

He had the entire offseason and more to rest up and get healthy since he was being sat out games at the end of last season, I don't think sitting him 10 games will do anything beyond dig this team a hole that they will never climb out of, the season will be over before it really begins.

[LoveMyRaps]

I've been super critical of Poeltl and he's been extremely frustrating to watch.

But give the guy (and the rest of the team) at least 10 games before jumping to conclusions.

He had the entire offseason and more to rest up and get healthy since he was being sat out games at the end of last season, I don't think sitting him 10 games will do anything beyond dig this team a hole that they will never climb out of, the season will be over before it really begins.

I never suggested sitting him 10 games.
I said let's give the team 10 games before jumping to any conclusions.

[ciueli]

I've been super critical of Poeltl and he's been extremely frustrating to watch.

But give the guy (and the rest of the team) at least 10 games before jumping to conclusions.

He had the entire offseason and more to rest up and get healthy since he was being sat out games at the end of last season, I don't think sitting him 10 games will do anything beyond dig this team a hole that they will never climb out of, the season will be over before it really begins.

I never suggested sitting him 10 games.
I said let's give the team 10 games before jumping to any conclusions.

Sorry, my mistake. The only way things change in the next ten games is if they change the defensive scheme which I don't see happening, this team is just horrible on defence at a fundamental level with the personnel they have available, it's so much worse with Jak looking like a shadow of who he was last season.

[C_Money]

I seem to remember us having this discussion at the beginning of last year too. He starts the season looking like absolute crap and then turns it around.

[Raptorfan2012]

The fact that we screwed two drafts in obtaining him makes it all the more difficult to accept.

Definitely do not regret drafting CMB over Maluach. That was the right decision.

But we should've at least drafted a center with our other picks. Like why draft Martin, when your team is already bombarded with undersized guards?

Agreed - Martin brings nothing to this team that we do not have - Walter and Ochai are better than him as defensive guards. Drafting Martin was extremely baffling.

[DelAbbot]

"Toronto needs a new center"

What year is this? Feels like we have this discussion every season.

Literally since Marc Gasol left it seems like an annual discussion.

I wonder if the Long Bois / vision 6'9 was our FO's experiment that doomed our C position or a fascade for our FO's inability / unwillingness to acquire a capable C

[sidsid]

The FO turned down a chance at Wemby for him and he was untouchable in the Durant trade. CMB wouldn't be on this team if they could find another way to move the pick and RJ for something. Jak was valued above all these considerations.

Our team is built around Jak, not Scottie. Unless there's a new GM, we're stuck with a non-shooting C who doesn't fit with either Barnes or CMB on offense for the next 4 years. We're in our version of the DeRozan/Vuc Bulls era until the contract runs out.

[iBall101]

Why are we forcing him to play? (Since he's got a bad back and playing injured). This is completely on coaching then. Maybe we need a new and experienced head coach??

[Spida888]

Jak is clearly hurt. Put CMB in as the starting C in the interim until Jak recovers.

[ConSarnit]

I seem to remember us having this discussion at the beginning of last year too. He starts the season looking like absolute crap and then turns it around.

Last year was the exact opposite. Poeltl put up 15/12/3 in career high minutes the first 15 games of the season and people were talking about how he’d gotten better.

[ConSarnit]

This thread just underscores one thing:

Without a healthy Poeltl we are screwed.
What we witnessed the last two season is also true this year, without him, we are very bad at defense.

We all should pray and hope its nothing serious, cause if Poeltl regressed that much in just 2-3 months we are in deep trouble.
But i have hope, cause he never had a major injury, even if the one month in january 23, were he sat, was not a big issue.

So it might not be a big issue now. Sadly, we need patience.

Jak was always going to be the single point of failure for this season since C was the position of least depth on this team, having him play at the level he did last season was going to be absolutely critical to the success of the team this season.

But after the back issues he had last season it should have been obvious he couldn't be relied on to stay healthy. The front office needed to come up with a solid plan B in case Jak missed a significant number of games and they didn't. Instead doubled down on Jak as the starter for at least the next 4 seasons, that contract extension is now quite likely an albatross if Jak never really recovers or continues to age poorly, this team is in very deep trouble going forward if Jak is basically washed.

As for patience... I really don't look forward to waiting until 2029-2030 for Jak to come off the books, even then they still have to pay him the $5M of guaranteed money in the last year of that contract. Just a horrible decision, there was really no reason to rush a contract extension, they've ruined this franchise with multiple overpay contracts to marginal talent over the last few years.

Jak as our key failure point is a far bigger issue than anything specifically related to Jak. Guys get injured, it happens. The bigger problem is: everything falls apart because we’re missing a league average starting C? We’re paying our other 4 starters $135m this year. If they can’t somewhat carry the team in his absence/injury this team is cooked.

Jak is not an all-star. Or an all-defense level player. Losing him should not be this impactful. Yet here we are. What does that say about the other highly paid guys on this team?

[kalel123]

Our problem isn't something that can be solved by just replacing one guy.

Our issue wouldn't be as problematic if we had at least one plus defender in the starting back court and we had more bigs depth. Ones with real length and not just stocky guys with long arms. We've had some misfortunes with Koloko and Chomche, true, but they were always going to be long-term projects that may or may not have developed even without health issues. If you look around the league, more teams are gearing towards having more size but not this FO. Maybe it's time they invest some meaningful draft capital on addressing glaring need that's becoming larger and larger gaping hole.

[Rainman66]

Really should have gave that last 2-way to Sarr instead of Lawson. We really need another 7 footer on this team esp with Jak's bad back and losing Chomche.

Right, theres also just an empty 15th man roster spot I dont mind giving Sarr a standard vet min and just go into the tax, if it means not starting Scottie at C and having him break his face again, the front court is down bad time for some desperation measures.

[Jtoneller1]

It's been painfully obvious that we need a spacing C since we made it Scottie's team. The issue is that there aren't many of those guys and for some reason, we refuse to draft them when available

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[ciueli]

For those wanting Scottie to start at C, I'll just say this team has a bad history of forcing PFs into the C spot and it not really working out. Started with Antonio Davis, he was actually an All-Star at C once even though he was a 6'9" PF, but he was unhappy there and they got a washed Hakeem on a 3 year contract that didn't work out. After that the team really didn't go anywhere, AD demanded a trade and the team fell apart.

Then with Chris Bosh they kept forcing him to play C even though he clearly couldn't stand up defensively to the bigs of his era physically, end result was him bolting to Miami (who can blame him really) leaving the team without a star for years.

Then there's Pascal and the infamous Vision 6'9" plan that failed so spectacularly, before Jak was acquired they played Pascal at C a fair bit simply because there was no one else to play there when Precious Achiuwa got injured. That's more fresh in everyone's memory, it didn't work out and they went and got Jak, the Jak trade is now looking like one of the worst trades in the history of the franchise as this team has never made the playoffs with him but he's been just good enough to make the draft picks worse than they could have been for years.

Now people want to throw Scottie into the C position, it's already happening in some small ball lineups when Jak is out. It's never really worked out for us and I don't think it will this time either.