2025 49ers Season

[wco81]

Rams and Hawks getting their byes this week while 49ers don't get the bye until week 14 and then 4 games left after that.

Not clear if it will turn out advantageous or not.

They could use the bye now though with all their injured players.

[wco81]

At this point, you have to hope the young players on defense improve with experience, reps.

Have to see whether they can play at a high level or look to draft/acquire more. All 3 levels need to show a lot of improvement or the team has to look elsewhere.

Bosa and Warner alone wouldn't be able to carry this whole unit, as they are currently, to be a top playoffs level defense.

There was a chance with the schedule but the injuries have not let up in 8 games and there will be more injuries.

[Jikkle]

Armchair take here so I could be wrong but the issue with the offensive line on the macro side of things is that defenders are generally speaking fast AND powerful.

The reason to go with the smaller athletic line back in the day was that they could run circles around guys that were big, powerful, but slow so they could use their speed to get blocking angles on them to negate the strength discrepancy. The issue is the league is loaded more and more with physical freaks and you're getting guys that are just as fast as your athletic linemen but just as powerful as those guys back in the day. So you can't out position them with speed and you can't blow them off the ball with power either.

The specific problem for the 9ers is the offensive line is constructed to be an outside zone running team with faster linemen pulling and getting to the 2nd level and the outside zone game has been shut down this season. So Kyle has switched to more inside runs but the problem is the offensive line isn't build for it at all and can't blow anyone off the ball so CMC is getting a guy in his lap as soon as he touches the ball.

If this team is going to thrive Shanahan has to evolve his view on the offensive line. He's either going to have bite the bullet and invest in physical freaks of offensive linemen himself or if he still wants to go cheap he's going to have to sacrifice speed for more power.

[CrimsonCrew]

It struck me as we watched the Texans carve us up with a bunch of non-premium rookies just how silly Shanahan's and Foerster's view about taking skill players over OL really is. Granted the Texans have a garbage OL, too. But particularly given the rules in today's NFL, it's so easy for good route runners to get open. Why do we continuously spend high draft picks on WRs and overlook the OL when teams routinely find really good or even elite WRs in the later rounds? Meanwhile, our OL struggles hold the entire offense back.

[CrimsonCrew]

At this point, you have to hope the young players on defense improve with experience, reps.

Have to see whether they can play at a high level or look to draft/acquire more. All 3 levels need to show a lot of improvement or the team has to look elsewhere.

Bosa and Warner alone wouldn't be able to carry this whole unit, as they are currently, to be a top playoffs level defense.

There was a chance with the schedule but the injuries have not let up in 8 games and there will be more injuries.

I don't know about that re: the defense's potential with Warner and Bosa in. First off, Warner's leadership and knowledge of the game is huge. A bunch of the miscues that we had yesterday probably don't happen with him back there, and if they did, they only happen once. Bosa isn't the same kind of vocal leader, but he's such a difference-maker against both run and pass. He basically shuts down one edge. Complement that with Williams on early downs and Huff on late downs, and it improves the entire D so much. If we could actually routinely put Williams and Gross-Matos inside on passing downs, that would make a big difference, too.

I don't expect we would be a top-3 defense, but I would expect that we would be at least a top-10 D with upside. Spilled milk now, with our two best defensive players done for the year.

[wco81]

I am not impressed with Williams at all so far. He’s allowed RBs to easily bounce outside for big gains several and yesterday Stroud scrambled for a huge gain between the RT and RG because the LDE rushed wide and left a huge gap and Williams was engaged with the RG and Stroud easily ran past him and Williams couldn’t or didn’t see Stroud about to run past him.

Never seen him try a speed rush past the tackles or bull rush and push the OL into the backfield. Not sure what his strength is suppose to be.

Hoping we see him show improvement in the remaining games but not seeing it. He was supposedly the top recruit in the 2022 UGA recruiting class but maybe there’s a reason he didn’t out up big numbers in college. So the 49ers may have hoped he’d live up to potential based on his recruit ranking.

[CrimsonCrew]

I am not impressed with Williams at all so far. He’s allowed RBs to easily bounce outside for big gains several and yesterday Stroud scrambled for a huge gain between the RT and RG because the LDE rushed wide and left a huge gap and Williams was engaged with the RG and Stroud easily ran past him and Williams couldn’t or didn’t see Stroud about to run past him.

Never seen him try a speed rush past the tackles or bull rush and push the OL into the backfield. Not sure what his strength is suppose to be.

Hoping we see him show improvement in the remaining games but not seeing it. He was supposedly the top recruit in the 2022 UGA recruiting class but maybe there’s a reason he didn’t out up big numbers in college. So the 49ers may have hoped he’d live up to potential based on his recruit ranking.

He flashed in a couple games, but it's been either really quiet or bad since. I think part of the issue is that he's not rushing inside as much, though admittedly I haven't watched the jersey's closely enough to notice. Seems like Collins has been outplaying him, and he's been shaky on the edge at times. Certainly not giving up on him, but also not at all confident he will become an impact player. At least we didn't trade up to get him, as they were trying to do....

[clyde21]

He's super young so I'm not all that worried yet, Collins is like 3 years older than Mykel, but yea, he's not super fast or quick twitch, he's just not gonna be a 10 sack guy in the NFL, so hopefully the run defense can be elite at some point which was his selling point coming out...I said this in another thread but I would almost want to put 25 lbs on him and just move him inside where I think he'll have more juice as a pass-rusher but that's all theory

either way, pass-rusher is still a top need for this team going into next draft

[Pattersonca65]

It struck me as we watched the Texans carve us up with a bunch of non-premium rookies just how silly Shanahan's and Foerster's view about taking skill players over OL really is. Granted the Texans have a garbage OL, too. But particularly given the rules in today's NFL, it's so easy for good route runners to get open. Why do we continuously spend high draft picks on WRs and overlook the OL when teams routinely find really good or even elite WRs in the later rounds? Meanwhile, our OL struggles hold the entire offense back.

I also tend to agree with Jiggle's post above. It might also be time for Shanahan to consider a change in philosophy with the oline and the run game. Shanahan uses lighter athletic lineman that can get out and block on the outside. This philosophy goes to back to his father and really to Bill Walsh who always preferred smaller more athletic lineman. Walsh's lines were always undersized compared to what the average lineman were weighing at the time. But it just seems in this era dlineman are bigger and stronger and these lighter offensive lineman struggle against better talent and when the 49ers are behind and in pass mode.

[clyde21]

He's super young so I'm not all that worried yet, Collins is like 3 years older than Mykel, but yea, he's not super fast or quick twitch, he's just not gonna be a 10 sack guy in the NFL, so hopefully the run defense can be elite at some point which was his selling point coming out...I said this in another thread but I would almost want to put 25 lbs on him and just move him inside where I think he'll have more juice as a pass-rusher but that's all theory

either way, pass-rusher is still a top need for this team going into next draft

I will say, other than Myles Garrett, they era of big DEs being big sack guys looks over. Mykel Williams, being at 6-5 265 or whatever is *too big* as a pass-rusher in today's NFL.

look at all the top pass-rushers, they're almost all in the 6-3 250 range, Micah Parsons, Abdul Carter, Nick Bonitto, even TJ Watt and Nick Bosa are in that range in terms of size, it's all about bend and speed in modern NFL pass rushing, two things Mykel is just not gonna excel at.

[Pattersonca65]

PFF grades from the game
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/195688-49ers-texans-grades-worst-counts/

[wco81]

Bosa is listed at 6-4 266. He has speed but not burst. He can use power to get near the QB and shed the blocker to finish.

[CrimsonCrew]

He's super young so I'm not all that worried yet, Collins is like 3 years older than Mykel, but yea, he's not super fast or quick twitch, he's just not gonna be a 10 sack guy in the NFL, so hopefully the run defense can be elite at some point which was his selling point coming out...I said this in another thread but I would almost want to put 25 lbs on him and just move him inside where I think he'll have more juice as a pass-rusher but that's all theory

either way, pass-rusher is still a top need for this team going into next draft

I will say, other than Myles Garrett, they era of big DEs being big sack guys looks over. Mykel Williams, being at 6-5 265 or whatever is *too big* as a pass-rusher in today's NFL.

look at all the top pass-rushers, they're almost all in the 6-3 250 range, Micah Parsons, Abdul Carter, Nick Bonitto, even TJ Watt and Nick Bosa are in that range in terms of size, it's all about bend and speed in modern NFL pass rushing, two things Mykel is just not gonna excel at.

Bosa is closer to 265. Crosby, Hutchinson, Hendrickson are all in the larger range. Rashan Gary has 7.5 sacks and he was 277 coming out.

Certainly the elite sack guys tend to be smaller and faster, but there are plenty of big guys who are still productive. Not saying Williams will be great by any means, just that the body type isn't dispositive.

[clyde21]

He's super young so I'm not all that worried yet, Collins is like 3 years older than Mykel, but yea, he's not super fast or quick twitch, he's just not gonna be a 10 sack guy in the NFL, so hopefully the run defense can be elite at some point which was his selling point coming out...I said this in another thread but I would almost want to put 25 lbs on him and just move him inside where I think he'll have more juice as a pass-rusher but that's all theory

either way, pass-rusher is still a top need for this team going into next draft

I will say, other than Myles Garrett, they era of big DEs being big sack guys looks over. Mykel Williams, being at 6-5 265 or whatever is *too big* as a pass-rusher in today's NFL.

look at all the top pass-rushers, they're almost all in the 6-3 250 range, Micah Parsons, Abdul Carter, Nick Bonitto, even TJ Watt and Nick Bosa are in that range in terms of size, it's all about bend and speed in modern NFL pass rushing, two things Mykel is just not gonna excel at.

Bosa is closer to 265. Crosby, Hutchinson, Hendrickson are all in the larger range. Rashan Gary has 7.5 sacks and he was 277 coming out.

Certainly the elite sack guys tend to be smaller and faster, but there are plenty of big guys who are still productive. Not saying Williams will be great by any means, just that the body type isn't dispositive.

you still have a few that fit the bill but the trend is pretty obviously heading towards the 6-3 250 range, small pass-rushers that can bend and speed rush and cover more space.

Parsons: 6-3 250
Abdul Carter: 6-3 255
Bonitto: 6-3 240
TJ Watt: 6-4 250
Will Anderson: 6-4 240
Landry: 6-2 250

etc etc

guys like Mykel Williams and Shemar Stewart fit the older bill of bigger DEs but majority of the productive pass rushers in today's NFL are just not that big.

we grew up on the JJ Watt and Mario Williams and Julius Peppers types but it's just not the case anymore.

[CrimsonCrew]

Yeah, we'll see. The physical tools are there for him to become a pass-rushing threat. But he has no technique or plan right now. He needs lots of development. Rashan Gary may be a good model for him. Two sacks as a rookie, five the next year, then 9.5. He's never broken 10, though he's likely to this year. I could see a similar curve for Williams.

We can always use more pass rush, but with a healthy Bosa and Huff, I think we're in pretty good shape in terms of outside pass rush - looking ahead to next year, anyway. Huff has been looking a lot more like the Jets version than the Eagles version, and if we can get that again next year, we'll be just fine. But always good to be grooming guys in that spot.

[Pattersonca65]

49ers trade for Keion White. Swap of late round picks. At worst another dl body

[thesack12]

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I fully expected this type of move. They basically had no choice, because they just need healthy capable bodies right now.

Not real familiar with White, but he is under contract for next season which is a +.

This *might* be the only move before the Giants game this week. But I don't think they are done making moves prior to next week's trade deadline.

[thesack12]

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[thesack12]

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I haven't really been following NE this year. White is clocked at only playing 26% of NE's snaps. Not sure if that's because he's been banged up, or he's just fallen down in their rotation due to the new regime, poor play, or whatever.

[thesack12]

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Not great.

At least he's apparently healthy and has real NFL experience. That's better than what SF was looking to require giving snaps to this Sunday.

In any event, I trust Kocurek will be able to mine whatever production/positives White has in him.