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PG: Defensive woes

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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#161 » by tsherkin » Tue Oct 28, 2025 10:47 pm

PushDaRock wrote:I was hoping we would be off to a bit better of a start but early season is tougher on our style of play because the refs have an emphasis on calling everything. We fouled more than anyone last year so it puts us at a disadvantage when the refs are calling everything so tightly. Things will need to normalize some before we can actually see where this D is at. I think we can probably be closer to average maybe around the top 10 in a best case scenario. I do think the offense has very likely gotten better though, this team probably won't have the same scoring droughts they have had the last 2 seasons.


Yeah, the refs are doing their usual thing at the start of the year, and we also simply haven't played well on that end. We are 2nd-worst so far in opponent eFG%, we are excelling at generating turnovers (3rd-best), we're average on the defensive boards, and yeah, fouls are killing us. We're actually only a little below average for opponent 3P%, which isn't too bad, Spurs game notwithstanding.

So we'll see. As ever, it's way too early. Trying to make sense of less than a handful of games just isn't a good approach. It's all we have right now, but we all know everything is messy and chaotic this early. Every year, season after season, heh. At least there are active games now. Much better than the summer in that regard.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#162 » by C_Money » Tue Oct 28, 2025 11:01 pm

The team played the perfect game against the Hawks. How the hell do they go from that to the exact opposite in the next 3? Smh
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#163 » by tsherkin » Tue Oct 28, 2025 11:14 pm

C_Money wrote:The team played the perfect game against the Hawks. How the hell do they go from that to the exact opposite in the next 3? Smh


Different shots falling, different opponent, general inconsistency in some guys. It is what it is.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#164 » by Spates » Tue Oct 28, 2025 11:51 pm

As brutal as the 2 losses have been, there's still room for optimism.

Jak shouldn't be playing, Mamu should get a chance to start. The added spacing in the starting lineup could provided an offensive boost.

The defensive can be improved. There's lots to clean-up. Poor timing of aggressive actions is leading to numerous breakdowns.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#165 » by Pointgod » Wed Oct 29, 2025 1:17 am

C_Money wrote:The team played the perfect game against the Hawks. How the hell do they go from that to the exact opposite in the next 3? Smh


We need to play the Hawks 82 times a season apparently
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#166 » by Pointgod » Wed Oct 29, 2025 1:46 am

YogurtProducer wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
We shouldn’t be paying a guy 40 million if he’s just going to be one of the guys. We brought in Ingram to be a first option.


How many true #1 options are even in the league? It's also not a reasonable expectation to expect him to be one given what we gave up to get him. There's a bit of untapped potential left that they hope to unlock but it's more likely that he will be right around what he's been in his career which is a good scorer similar to Siakam level that's not a true #1 option.

People also see 40M and just assume that is #1 option money. Ingram is the 38th highest paid guy in the league. He makes $38M in a league where true #1's make $50M+


Here are some players that make around the same $$ as Ingram this year:
Darius Garland, Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, OG Anunoby, James Harden, Scottie Barnes, Deaaron Fox, Franz Wagner, Tyrese Maxey, Lamelo Ball, Michael Porter Jr, Bam Adebayo, Desmond Bane, Kyrie Irving.

I purposely left out Shai because his Supermax hasn’t kicked in so he’s not really a good comparison. If you replaced Ingram with most of these players, the expectation is that they would be a first option on the Raptors and carrying the offence, not sharing the offensive load with RJ Barrett.

So yes getting paid this much does come with expectations and we should be expecting more from Ingram considering he’s the most talented offensive player on our team. It’s still too early in the season but so far he’s been the same player he was on the Pelicans.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#167 » by MEDIC » Wed Oct 29, 2025 2:38 am

C_Money wrote:The team played the perfect game against the Hawks. How the hell do they go from that to the exact opposite in the next 3? Smh


It looked to me that they were following the defensive gameplan most of the game against the hawks. They barely did it against the other 3 teams.

Having said that, they constantly try to push transition & a lot of the time it amounts to nothing. I am not sure how you have an effective defense with an offense like that. They are always scrambling.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#168 » by bape_lovers » Wed Oct 29, 2025 2:42 am

Wemby is unbeatable, Giannis is former 2 time MVP, and AD is really good too. So basically played trio of the best big men’s in the game right now.

C_Money wrote:The team played the perfect game against the Hawks. How the hell do they go from that to the exact opposite in the next 3? Smh
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#169 » by nikster » Wed Oct 29, 2025 1:13 pm

bape_lovers wrote:Wemby is unbeatable, Giannis is former 2 time MVP, and AD is really good too. So basically played trio of the best big men’s in the game right now.

C_Money wrote:The team played the perfect game against the Hawks. How the hell do they go from that to the exact opposite in the next 3? Smh

And with Poeltl not playing close to 100% Porzingis is a much better match up then Rhode extremely mobile bigs
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#170 » by TheGeneral99 » Wed Oct 29, 2025 1:23 pm

C_Money wrote:The team played the perfect game against the Hawks. How the hell do they go from that to the exact opposite in the next 3? Smh


Hawks aren't a very good team, they are bad defensively on the perimeter and don't have the size that the Bucks, Mavs and Spurs had.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#171 » by YogurtProducer » Wed Oct 29, 2025 2:44 pm

Pointgod wrote:Here are some players that make around the same $$ as Ingram this year:
Darius Garland, Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, OG Anunoby, James Harden, Scottie Barnes, Deaaron Fox, Franz Wagner, Tyrese Maxey, Lamelo Ball, Michael Porter Jr, Bam Adebayo, Desmond Bane, Kyrie Irving.

I purposely left out Shai because his Supermax hasn’t kicked in so he’s not really a good comparison. If you replaced Ingram with most of these players, the expectation is that they would be a first option on the Raptors and carrying the offence, not sharing the offensive load with RJ Barrett.

I mean... you just listed a whole bunch of players who are not first options so I am not really sure what your point is? Absolutely none of those players have ever been a first option (or were years ago re: Harden) and very few of them would be expected to carry an offense (so like Ball, and in theory a healthy Ja/Zion). Maybe the rest can carry a bad offense to the 20th best offence.

So yes getting paid this much does come with expectations and we should be expecting more from Ingram considering he’s the most talented offensive player on our team. It’s still too early in the season but so far he’s been the same player he was on the Pelicans.

The guy is playing his first 4 games sine 2024, and on a brand new team. Maybe give the guy a few games lol

But FWIW - Barrett is averaging 22ppg on 70TS% and Barnes 20ppg on 60TS%. Maybe we should be happy Ingram is not highjacking the offence to force shots and instead letting guys who are performing well to continue to do so? Ingram is still averaging 20ppg on 59TS% which is above his career averages to.

There are reasons to complain about Ingram... almost none of them are on the offensive side of the court.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#172 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Oct 29, 2025 3:54 pm

Poeltl has been the worst player in the league

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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#173 » by Raps in 4 » Wed Oct 29, 2025 3:57 pm

This roster construction is so stupid. I thought we might be able to brute force our way to mediocrity, but it seems unlikely.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#174 » by YogurtProducer » Wed Oct 29, 2025 4:13 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:Poeltl has been the worst player in the league

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Yeah the season is pretty cooked if arguably a top 3 player on our team is now one of the leagues worst. No real way to sugar coat it.

It is still early, and small sample size and all, but not very promising.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#175 » by sbsat » Wed Oct 29, 2025 4:29 pm

TheGeneral99 wrote:
C_Money wrote:The team played the perfect game against the Hawks. How the hell do they go from that to the exact opposite in the next 3? Smh


Hawks aren't a very good team, they are bad defensively on the perimeter and don't have the size that the Bucks, Mavs and Spurs had.


the other interesting thing is the raptors have played progressively worse every game. Its still early, but you knew we had a deeply flawed roster and a clueless coach to begin with -- the results will never be anything great.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#176 » by Tor_Raps » Wed Oct 29, 2025 5:38 pm

Who knew that a IQ/RJ/Ingram starting lineup couldnt defend on the perimeter?

Also doesnt help that Poeltl has turned into a complete scrub. We better hope its because of his back or else we're screwed. The fact this team was so reliant on a role player was always a faulty roster construct.

Don't get me started on IQ getting that contract for proving NOTHING. Oh and I have never taken Darko serious as a head coach in this league.

Anyways, I still think we're a .500ish team and will get better than this.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#177 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Oct 29, 2025 5:47 pm

Someone make this for Poeltl LOL

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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#178 » by tsherkin » Wed Oct 29, 2025 6:02 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:Anyways, I still think we're a .500ish team and will get better than this.


Something adjacent to that seemed to be largely what most people were thinking. 36-43 wins, IIRC, is about the main range people were expecting. Certainly is for me.

We aren't a strong offense, we aren't an elite defense. We should be better than average on D if we're healthy and all together, and our O shouldn't be a disaster, but stretches like this would be pretty normal for that type of team, for sure.
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#179 » by theonlyeastcoastrapsfan » Thu Oct 30, 2025 12:23 pm

Why bother making a new pg thread when the issues and failures are the same anyway.

It should not be so controversial to alter the lineup or play the players that give them the best chance to win. Keeping in guys in bad roles because you paid them only prolongs the mistakes.

This team is playing gimmick ball and, it was poorly constructed and conceived from the jump. It’s not rocket science to see the difference in personnel and competition between summer league and the main roster. They based their training camp and ethos on the guys who don’t play - and try and alter the games of their starters.

Darko is just a yes man, and with no other leadership but Bobby, we need a stronger voice who’s not just floundering longing to glom onto any excuse or reason for optimism.

The defensive gains from the last half of the season was because teams were more committed to tanking than we were, and we played the easy part of our sched last. Plus, that lineup didn’t have much of IQ or BI in it. Hard to be a defensive focused team when you’re relying on poor defensive players.

When’s the pizza party?
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Re: PG: Defensive woes 

Post#180 » by Nature » Thu Oct 30, 2025 12:56 pm

theonlyeastcoastrapsfan wrote:Why bother making a new pg thread when the issues and failures are the same anyway.

It should not be so controversial to alter the lineup or play the players that give them the best chance to win. Keeping in guys in bad roles because you paid them only prolongs the mistakes.

This team is playing gimmick ball and, it was poorly constructed and conceived from the jump. It’s not rocket science to see the difference in personnel and competition between summer league and the main roster. They based their training camp and ethos on the guys who don’t play - and try and alter the games of their starters.

Darko is just a yes man, and with no other leadership but Bobby, we need a stronger voice who’s not just floundering longing to glom onto any excuse or reason for optimism.

The defensive gains from the last half of the season was because teams were more committed to tanking than we were, and we played the easy part of our sched last. Plus, that lineup didn’t have much of IQ or BI in it. Hard to be a defensive focused team when you’re relying on poor defensive players.

When’s the pizza party?


What do you think is the next step here? Fire Darko? Trade our bad contracts for pennies on the dollar and bottom out?

I'm thinking all of the above but I'm a bit of an all or nothing kind of guy. Much to my own detriment.
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