Game 4: Denver at Minnesota, 8:30 pm (Peacock)

[winforlose]

A different team than the one we are talking about, but since you want to go there. How many teams hang banners for going to the Conference championship? How many teams go home happy that they got gentleman’s swept in consecutive years in the same series. Either you think we lack talent and you therefore credit Finch for finding a way to drag us to the WCF, or you realize we have incredible talent, who often underachieve. Look no further than Jaden offensively to prove the point. But to be fair TC is also to blame. His poor planning and whiffing on 1st round picks also put us in our current hole. Unless you plan to ride last years accomplishment all season?

Of course I'm not hanging banners, but I'm also not putting Chris Finch in the same category as Ryan Saunders, Sam Mitchell, Bill Musselman, Randy Wittman, Bill Blair, Sidney Lowe, Kurt Rambis and Jimmy Rodgers.

1. None of them had Ant, not to mention Ant and KAT, or Ant, KAT, Jaden, ect…

2. Just because Finch isn’t them, doesn’t mean his flaws aren’t serious.

[Klomp]

Just because Finch isn’t them, doesn’t mean his flaws aren’t serious.

Basically every coach in the league has flaws. That doesn't necessarily mean they should be fired.

This team typically starts slow. This team also has made two trips to the WCF. They are both true. Starting slow or having flaws does not mean that this season is doomed for failure.

[winforlose]

Just because Finch isn’t them, doesn’t mean his flaws aren’t serious.

Basically every coach in the league has flaws. That doesn't necessarily mean they should be fired.

This team typically starts slow. This team also has made two trips to the WCF. They are both true. Starting slow or having flaws does not mean that this season is doomed for failure.

When those flaws are persistent and limiting, then they start to raise the question.

Trips to WCF are not sacrosanct. Taking a bad team to a 3rd playoff series is a good accomplishment. Taking a good team there means you got eliminated in the 3rd round. In 23/24 we should have won it all. Injuries and poor coaching (Ant and KAT banged up in Denver series, and our offense radically underperforming our available talent level,) doomed us. In 24/25 we were always paper contenders. After the disastrous KAT trade we could not defeat OKC. I said before the playoffs we will get to the WCF as long as we don’t face OKC. I truly believe had Denver won game 7 we probably win the next series and maybe a chip. But that is on the strength of our talent, not the guy who doesn’t know how to use it.

[Klomp]

I think the most worrisome to me is that it looks to be another season where we will be forced to rely too much on Rudy Gobert and Mike Conley. These two are still pivotal to the team's identity and to the roster playing to its potential this season. As fans, we all get excited about our collection of guys 25 or younger. But can that group drive winning at the level we have come to expect as a fan base (which has now apparently become Finals or bust)? Are we okay with that? Or is it just a way to force enough losing so that the front office will be tempted to make the coaching change a faction of the fan base is yearning for?

[BlacJacMac]

Just because Finch isn’t them, doesn’t mean his flaws aren’t serious.

Basically every coach in the league has flaws. That doesn't necessarily mean they should be fired.

This team typically starts slow. This team also has made two trips to the WCF. They are both true. Starting slow or having flaws does not mean that this season is doomed for failure.

When those flaws are persistent and limiting, then they start to raise the question.

Trips to WCF are not sacrosanct. Taking a bad team to a 3rd playoff series is a good accomplishment. Taking a good team there means you got eliminated in the 3rd round. In 23/24 we should have won it all. Injuries and poor coaching (Ant and KAT banged up in Denver series, and our offense radically underperforming our available talent level,) doomed us. In 24/25 we were always paper contenders. After the disastrous KAT trade we could not defeat OKC. I said before the playoffs we will get to the WCF as long as we don’t face OKC. I truly believe had Denver won game 7 we probably win the next series and maybe a chip. But that is on the strength of our talent, not the guy who doesn’t know how to use it.

That sounds like more of a roster construction issue than a coaching one.

[winforlose]

Basically every coach in the league has flaws. That doesn't necessarily mean they should be fired.

This team typically starts slow. This team also has made two trips to the WCF. They are both true. Starting slow or having flaws does not mean that this season is doomed for failure.

When those flaws are persistent and limiting, then they start to raise the question.

Trips to WCF are not sacrosanct. Taking a bad team to a 3rd playoff series is a good accomplishment. Taking a good team there means you got eliminated in the 3rd round. In 23/24 we should have won it all. Injuries and poor coaching (Ant and KAT banged up in Denver series, and our offense radically underperforming our available talent level,) doomed us. In 24/25 we were always paper contenders. After the disastrous KAT trade we could not defeat OKC. I said before the playoffs we will get to the WCF as long as we don’t face OKC. I truly believe had Denver won game 7 we probably win the next series and maybe a chip. But that is on the strength of our talent, not the guy who doesn’t know how to use it.

That sounds like more of a roster construction issue than a coaching one.

True. I talked about that a lot last year as well. Where Finch failed was not implementing better defensive schemes to handle double teams of opposing teams best players (notice how teams work together to contain Ant without constantly breaking down their defense. Now notice how we struggle to contain stars like SGA and Luka without totally destroying ours.) Also the offensive scheme (such as it is,) consistently breaks down end of game. Even this season we see continued droughts of ball movement, serious lack of off ball movement, leading to stagnant offense. The solution is our guys making tough shots at unreasonable clips (we shot over 60% against Denver in the 3rd,) until that dries up, and then we go cold, (bad offensive process leading to less easy shots,) and other teams exploit it for big runs. We have a lot of talent that also consistently underachieves (Jaden is the best example but not the only one,) and Finch hates to play young players (even when vets are failing.) I can go on and on, but the point is it’s both TC and Finch not getting it done.

[BlacJacMac]

When those flaws are persistent and limiting, then they start to raise the question.

Trips to WCF are not sacrosanct. Taking a bad team to a 3rd playoff series is a good accomplishment. Taking a good team there means you got eliminated in the 3rd round. In 23/24 we should have won it all. Injuries and poor coaching (Ant and KAT banged up in Denver series, and our offense radically underperforming our available talent level,) doomed us. In 24/25 we were always paper contenders. After the disastrous KAT trade we could not defeat OKC. I said before the playoffs we will get to the WCF as long as we don’t face OKC. I truly believe had Denver won game 7 we probably win the next series and maybe a chip. But that is on the strength of our talent, not the guy who doesn’t know how to use it.

That sounds like more of a roster construction issue than a coaching one.

True. I talked about that a lot last year as well. Where Finch failed was not implementing better defensive schemes to handle double teams of opposing teams best players (notice how teams work together to contain Ant without constantly breaking down their defense. Now notice how we struggle to contain stars like SGA and Luka without totally destroying ours.) Also the offensive scheme (such as it is,) consistently breaks down end of game. Even this season we see continued droughts of ball movement, serious lack of off ball movement, leading to stagnant offense. The solution is our guys making tough shots at unreasonable clips (we shot over 60% against Denver in the 3rd,) until that dries up, and then we go cold, (bad offensive process leading to less easy shots,) and other teams exploit it for big runs. We have a lot of talent that also consistently underachieves (Jaden is the best example but not the only one,) and Finch hates to play young players (even when vets are failing.) I can go on and on, but the point is it’s both TC and Finch not getting it done.

That's also, in large part, a roster construction problem as we have almost no one that is a natural playmaker on the team. Can you name a single player that is able to get easy shots consistently for his teammates?

No one on the roster makes the game easier for their teammates.

Conley is a solid passer, but not really a guy who sees the floor "2 steps ahead".

Ant and Randle are solid passers, but they're reactionary. They find the open guy when their offense gets cut off. But its pretty rudimentary.

[KGdaBom]

A different team than the one we are talking about, but since you want to go there. How many teams hang banners for going to the Conference championship? How many teams go home happy that they got gentleman’s swept in consecutive years in the same series. Either you think we lack talent and you therefore credit Finch for finding a way to drag us to the WCF, or you realize we have incredible talent, who often underachieve. Look no further than Jaden offensively to prove the point. But to be fair TC is also to blame. His poor planning and whiffing on 1st round picks also put us in our current hole. Unless you plan to ride last years accomplishment all season?

Of course I'm not hanging banners, but I'm also not putting Chris Finch in the same category as Ryan Saunders, Sam Mitchell, Bill Musselman, Randy Wittman, Bill Blair, Sidney Lowe, Kurt Rambis and Jimmy Rodgers.

I actually think Bill Musselman was one of the best coaches ever.

[winforlose]

That sounds like more of a roster construction issue than a coaching one.

True. I talked about that a lot last year as well. Where Finch failed was not implementing better defensive schemes to handle double teams of opposing teams best players (notice how teams work together to contain Ant without constantly breaking down their defense. Now notice how we struggle to contain stars like SGA and Luka without totally destroying ours.) Also the offensive scheme (such as it is,) consistently breaks down end of game. Even this season we see continued droughts of ball movement, serious lack of off ball movement, leading to stagnant offense. The solution is our guys making tough shots at unreasonable clips (we shot over 60% against Denver in the 3rd,) until that dries up, and then we go cold, (bad offensive process leading to less easy shots,) and other teams exploit it for big runs. We have a lot of talent that also consistently underachieves (Jaden is the best example but not the only one,) and Finch hates to play young players (even when vets are failing.) I can go on and on, but the point is it’s both TC and Finch not getting it done.

That's also, in large part, a roster construction problem as we have almost no one that is a natural playmaker on the team. Can you name a single player that is able to get easy shots consistently for his teammates?

No one on the roster makes the game easier for their teammates.

Conley is a solid passer, but not really a guy who sees the floor "2 steps ahead".

Ant and Randle are solid passers, but they're reactionary. They find the open guy when their offense gets cut off. But its pretty rudimentary.

Talent plays a role, but so does system. When you lack a great PG you adapt with a series of screens to get them operating downhill. You also encourage off ball movement to set up shooters who can be dished too. You discourage ISO and Hero ball as they often lead to harder and lower percentage shots. We also need to find ways to exploit Rudy more. Any system that is light on lob and PNR is inherently 4 on 5 and that is a bad recipe. Year after year we see controlled chaos yield the same outcomes. I was more patient in the beginning thinking Finch would grow with his players, but he keeps making the same mistakes 5 years in.

[Dewey]

That sounds like more of a roster construction issue than a coaching one.

True. I talked about that a lot last year as well. Where Finch failed was not implementing better defensive schemes to handle double teams of opposing teams best players (notice how teams work together to contain Ant without constantly breaking down their defense. Now notice how we struggle to contain stars like SGA and Luka without totally destroying ours.) Also the offensive scheme (such as it is,) consistently breaks down end of game. Even this season we see continued droughts of ball movement, serious lack of off ball movement, leading to stagnant offense. The solution is our guys making tough shots at unreasonable clips (we shot over 60% against Denver in the 3rd,) until that dries up, and then we go cold, (bad offensive process leading to less easy shots,) and other teams exploit it for big runs. We have a lot of talent that also consistently underachieves (Jaden is the best example but not the only one,) and Finch hates to play young players (even when vets are failing.) I can go on and on, but the point is it’s both TC and Finch not getting it done.

That's also, in large part, a roster construction problem as we have almost no one that is a natural playmaker on the team. Can you name a single player that is able to get easy shots consistently for his teammates?

No one on the roster makes the game easier for their teammates.

Conley is a solid passer, but not really a guy who sees the floor "2 steps ahead".

Ant and Randle are solid passers, but they're reactionary. They find the open guy when their offense gets cut off. But its pretty rudimentary.

Pretty good analogy.

I would add we are a little robotic in nature

[BlacJacMac]

True. I talked about that a lot last year as well. Where Finch failed was not implementing better defensive schemes to handle double teams of opposing teams best players (notice how teams work together to contain Ant without constantly breaking down their defense. Now notice how we struggle to contain stars like SGA and Luka without totally destroying ours.) Also the offensive scheme (such as it is,) consistently breaks down end of game. Even this season we see continued droughts of ball movement, serious lack of off ball movement, leading to stagnant offense. The solution is our guys making tough shots at unreasonable clips (we shot over 60% against Denver in the 3rd,) until that dries up, and then we go cold, (bad offensive process leading to less easy shots,) and other teams exploit it for big runs. We have a lot of talent that also consistently underachieves (Jaden is the best example but not the only one,) and Finch hates to play young players (even when vets are failing.) I can go on and on, but the point is it’s both TC and Finch not getting it done.

That's also, in large part, a roster construction problem as we have almost no one that is a natural playmaker on the team. Can you name a single player that is able to get easy shots consistently for his teammates?

No one on the roster makes the game easier for their teammates.

Conley is a solid passer, but not really a guy who sees the floor "2 steps ahead".

Ant and Randle are solid passers, but they're reactionary. They find the open guy when their offense gets cut off. But its pretty rudimentary.

Pretty good analogy.

I would add we are a little robotic in nature

We're not a particularly high IQ team.

[frankenwolf]

True. I talked about that a lot last year as well. Where Finch failed was not implementing better defensive schemes to handle double teams of opposing teams best players (notice how teams work together to contain Ant without constantly breaking down their defense. Now notice how we struggle to contain stars like SGA and Luka without totally destroying ours.) Also the offensive scheme (such as it is,) consistently breaks down end of game. Even this season we see continued droughts of ball movement, serious lack of off ball movement, leading to stagnant offense. The solution is our guys making tough shots at unreasonable clips (we shot over 60% against Denver in the 3rd,) until that dries up, and then we go cold, (bad offensive process leading to less easy shots,) and other teams exploit it for big runs. We have a lot of talent that also consistently underachieves (Jaden is the best example but not the only one,) and Finch hates to play young players (even when vets are failing.) I can go on and on, but the point is it’s both TC and Finch not getting it done.

That's also, in large part, a roster construction problem as we have almost no one that is a natural playmaker on the team. Can you name a single player that is able to get easy shots consistently for his teammates?

No one on the roster makes the game easier for their teammates.

Conley is a solid passer, but not really a guy who sees the floor "2 steps ahead".

Ant and Randle are solid passers, but they're reactionary. They find the open guy when their offense gets cut off. But its pretty rudimentary.

Talent plays a role, but so does system. When you lack a great PG you adapt with a series of screens to get them operating downhill. You also encourage off ball movement to set up shooters who can be dished too. You discourage ISO and Hero ball as they often lead to harder and lower percentage shots. We also need to find ways to exploit Rudy more. Any system that is light on lob and PNR is inherently 4 on 5 and that is a bad recipe. Year after year we see controlled chaos yield the same outcomes. I was more patient in the beginning thinking Finch would grow with his players, but he keeps making the same mistakes 5 years in.

Here's my question W4L: Can you coach this team to the NBA finals? It feels to me that you think you are a better coach and possibly a better a GM than TC.
Just wondering.

[winforlose]

That's also, in large part, a roster construction problem as we have almost no one that is a natural playmaker on the team. Can you name a single player that is able to get easy shots consistently for his teammates?

No one on the roster makes the game easier for their teammates.

Conley is a solid passer, but not really a guy who sees the floor "2 steps ahead".

Ant and Randle are solid passers, but they're reactionary. They find the open guy when their offense gets cut off. But its pretty rudimentary.

Talent plays a role, but so does system. When you lack a great PG you adapt with a series of screens to get them operating downhill. You also encourage off ball movement to set up shooters who can be dished too. You discourage ISO and Hero ball as they often lead to harder and lower percentage shots. We also need to find ways to exploit Rudy more. Any system that is light on lob and PNR is inherently 4 on 5 and that is a bad recipe. Year after year we see controlled chaos yield the same outcomes. I was more patient in the beginning thinking Finch would grow with his players, but he keeps making the same mistakes 5 years in.

Here's my question W4L: Can you coach this team to the NBA finals? It feels to me that you think you are a better coach and possibly a better a GM than TC.
Just wondering.

Could I do better as a GM, of course not. I have no scouting experience, no connections inside the NBA, no relationship with ownership, ect… Then again I sincerely hope I am not the only alternative.

Coaching, very likely not. If you gave me 3-5 years to get to know the guys, assistant coaches, a support staff, enough money I could focus exclusively on basketball, ect… then in theory it is possible (however unlikely.) My understanding of the game is sufficient, but beyond that is all variables. But once again, I hope I am not the only sufficient alternative.

You see something that looks rotten, then you smell it and it smells rotten, then you touch it and it feels rotten, is it safe to assume it is rotten? Do you really need to bite in and have it taste rotten (I don’t think you can hear a sign of rotten food.) I am knowledgeable enough to see the flaw and point it out. I am far from the only one. The question is when you diagnose the problem how do you solve it. Finch is being paid millions to diagnose and solve the problems, yet the keep recurring year after year. Some of it is on the players for ignoring him, some of it is on Finch for poor scheme work. I do believe this team could have won either or both the 24 and 25 championships. I do believe that Finch had a major impact in our not doing so.

[frankenwolf]

I do believe this team could have won either or both the 24 and 25 championships. I do believe that Finch had a major impact in our not doing so.

I also believe that they could have won in 2024, not so sure about 2025, OKC is a pretty good team. Unfortunately, they did lose in the conference finals to a so-so Dallas team. I will leave some of the blame at Finch's feet, however, there is plenty of blame to go around. I am not sure why they didn't run it back with that team and not do the KAT trade as it seemed to me that they were very close at that time and to base your draft on one team and then have it dramatically change right before training camp starts is not a good idea, in my opinion.

Thanks for the input W4L. Maybe the Wolves will figure this out and become champs this year.