Giannis with the worst travel of all time

[CBS7]

I appreciate your post because it made me look closely and consider carefully whether this was a travel by the rules. It was a travel if we accept that Giannis has completed the gather when the ball stops spinning in his hand.

At :08 in the video the ball is in Giannis' right hand and has stopped spinning. Then he begins to bring the ball in his right hand to meet his left hand in a two hand grasp. At the point that the ball stopped spinning in Giannis' right hand, his right foot is on the floor and his left foot is off the floor.

At :09 he now has the ball in both hands and his left foot is on the floor with the right foot in the air. This is one step.

At :10 he rocks the ball back into his right hand. His right foot again hits the floor with left foot now in the air. This is two steps.

At :13 his left foot hits the floor for the final time, swinging his right foot off the floor. This is three steps. Then he jumps off his left foot to shoot.

"A player who gathers the ball while progressing may take (1) two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball" This is the gather step rule the left foot at :9 is not a step by the rules in any league that plays nba or fiba in 2025.

When does the gather end? Does it end as theforumblue suggested, when the ball stops spinning? Or does it end later?

The ball stops spinning at :08 so if that is when the gather ends, his right foot is in the air when he has possession. Then after he has possession, his right foot hits the ground. Why is that not a step? Does he have to have possession before a foot is lifted off the ground for that foot hitting the ground to count as a step?

This is where the nuance lies
I think its a travel because the ball stops spinning and he palms it before he takes that third to last step. But its hard to pinpoint that in real time.

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, its not a 5 or 6 step travel.

[eminence]

Gather stroll

That's a great way of putting it. I'm not sure if I'm impressed or disgusted but it was only 3 steps by my count. He really did manage a good 2 "strides" during his never ending "gather".

I'm in camp disgusted.

Once the hand is under the ball and a legal dribble can no longer be made the gathering should be done with imo.

[lambchop]

"A player who gathers the ball while progressing may take (1) two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball" This is the gather step rule the left foot at :9 is not a step by the rules in any league that plays nba or fiba in 2025.

When does the gather end? Does it end as theforumblue suggested, when the ball stops spinning? Or does it end later?

The ball stops spinning at :08 so if that is when the gather ends, his right foot is in the air when he has possession. Then after he has possession, his right foot hits the ground. Why is that not a step? Does he have to have possession before a foot is lifted off the ground for that foot hitting the ground to count as a step?

This is where the nuance lies
I think its a travel because the ball stops spinning and he palms it before he takes that third to last step. But its hard to pinpoint that in real time.

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, its not a 5 or 6 step travel.

Excellent points here. Regarding the ball at :08 if you look again, you'll see that his left foot is already in the air. This means that if we consider :08 the end of his dribble, we will also consider him planting his left foot afterwards as his gather step.

Thus, it's left foot (gather), right foot (step 1), left foot (step 2). Therefore, by the rules there is no scenario where this can be called a travel in NBA or FIBA basketball.

[Wolfgang630]

I’m so tired of people saying it’s not a travel. Give me a damn break. It’s bs garbage rules from the nba to let players take 50 steps to the rim without calling them for travels. Anytime in the past it would be a travel.

I don’t give a crap what rules the NBA came up with to make sure it’s not a travel.

[MMyhre]

I've seen both him, Shai and Wemby have some obvious travels go uncalled recently. If the best players can't be held accountable it takes away the credibility of the game.

Does he feel no shame doing that? He has to know he is travelling there. The gather step rule needs to be officiated much stricter.

You wrote that like NBA Players know the rules. What we should criticize is officials who are supposed to know the rules and not dumber than plank of wood players. It's a disgrace the league office forces referees to referee the games in this manner. There is no other reasoning to this than mandate from the topdown.

What we should criticize is fans who refuse to learn the rules.The current gather step rule was fully implemented in 2018. I'm bewildered by fans who still live in the past. To make matter worse there are so many youtube and instagram resources that explain how the gather step works. But, no, instead you guys adamantly refuse to learn about the game.

There are multiple posters in this thread explaining why the play is clean, however, again, blatant refusal.

Here's yet another informative video on how this concept of the gather step and delaying the end of your dribble works. Though I upload it in good faith, I'm sure the uninformed ones still won't even take the 75 seconds needed to watch this video and end these senseless complaints.

Watch on YouTube

This is pure trash. It's trying to take advantage of pretending to dribble to get more steps. If the ball is not bouncing once, you should not be able to palm and do all kinds of **** to get 5 extra steps since you picked up the ball and stopped dribbling. That's not basketball. It's trying to take advantage of rule interpretation and the NBA should delete this. There was no skill to that Giannis play, if the game wants to be serious this can't be allowed and it makes some players unguardable.

[bonita_the_frog]

This is the most inaccurate thread-title of all-time.

[pipfan]

For me, carrying is worse now in the league. SO MANY guys, especially guards, carry every trip down the floor.

[Lockdown504090]

You wrote that like NBA Players know the rules. What we should criticize is officials who are supposed to know the rules and not dumber than plank of wood players. It's a disgrace the league office forces referees to referee the games in this manner. There is no other reasoning to this than mandate from the topdown.

What we should criticize is fans who refuse to learn the rules.The current gather step rule was fully implemented in 2018. I'm bewildered by fans who still live in the past. To make matter worse there are so many youtube and instagram resources that explain how the gather step works. But, no, instead you guys adamantly refuse to learn about the game.

There are multiple posters in this thread explaining why the play is clean, however, again, blatant refusal.

Here's yet another informative video on how this concept of the gather step and delaying the end of your dribble works. Though I upload it in good faith, I'm sure the uninformed ones still won't even take the 75 seconds needed to watch this video and end these senseless complaints.

Watch on YouTube

This is pure trash. It's trying to take advantage of pretending to dribble to get more steps. If the ball is not bouncing once, you should not be able to palm and do all kinds of **** to get 5 extra steps since you picked up the ball and stopped dribbling. That's not basketball. It's trying to take advantage of rule interpretation and the NBA should delete this. There was no skill to that Giannis play, if the game wants to be serious this can't be allowed and it makes some players unguardable.

how is timing the end of your dribble and stepping around a dfender less skilled than a drop step?

[MMyhre]

What we should criticize is fans who refuse to learn the rules.The current gather step rule was fully implemented in 2018. I'm bewildered by fans who still live in the past. To make matter worse there are so many youtube and instagram resources that explain how the gather step works. But, no, instead you guys adamantly refuse to learn about the game.

There are multiple posters in this thread explaining why the play is clean, however, again, blatant refusal.

Here's yet another informative video on how this concept of the gather step and delaying the end of your dribble works. Though I upload it in good faith, I'm sure the uninformed ones still won't even take the 75 seconds needed to watch this video and end these senseless complaints.

Watch on YouTube

This is pure trash. It's trying to take advantage of pretending to dribble to get more steps. If the ball is not bouncing once, you should not be able to palm and do all kinds of **** to get 5 extra steps since you picked up the ball and stopped dribbling. That's not basketball. It's trying to take advantage of rule interpretation and the NBA should delete this. There was no skill to that Giannis play, if the game wants to be serious this can't be allowed and it makes some players unguardable.

how is timing the end of your dribble and stepping around a dfender less skilled than a drop step?

One of the moves gives you 5 steps after picking up the dribble. Do you know how impossible it is to guard Giannis if he can take 5 powerful steps? It should not be allowed. And to me that is more important than if one believes it is "skilled" or not, big athletic players can't be allowed to take 5 steps after picking up their dribble, period.

[Lockdown504090]

This is pure trash. It's trying to take advantage of pretending to dribble to get more steps. If the ball is not bouncing once, you should not be able to palm and do all kinds of **** to get 5 extra steps since you picked up the ball and stopped dribbling. That's not basketball. It's trying to take advantage of rule interpretation and the NBA should delete this. There was no skill to that Giannis play, if the game wants to be serious this can't be allowed and it makes some players unguardable.

how is timing the end of your dribble and stepping around a dfender less skilled than a drop step?

One of the moves gives you 5 steps after picking up the dribble. Do you know how impossible it is to guard Giannis if he can take 5 powerful steps? It should not be allowed. And to me that is more important than if one believes it is "skilled" or not, big athletic players can't be allowed to take 5 steps after picking up their dribble, period.

I really dont think it is. The problem and anyone who is a history nerd will tell you, the fact that he can initate so much contact without being called for an offensive foul. because loook a the result of the move, if he doesnt use his left hand on the defender, it would take consideribly more skill to finish that lay(not to say he cant, but id like to see him try). if this was allowed in the 80's, kareem probably never comes up with the skyhook and michael never masters the fadeaway, and athletic wings probably dont post up and Dr J has 0 reason to go behind the backboard and palm the basketball to finish because he could just clear mfs out. They can compete in mma when they have the ball, then as soon as someone touches them, they just fall over and throw it up.

[Cavsfansince84]

What's sad isn't just that he did it but that the refs didn't call it either. It's been this way for a while where guys just pick up their dribble as soon as they get near the paint and then are allowed to run to the rim. There are almost no travels called in the paint anymore.

[madmaxmedia]

Ball's still spinning in his hand when he takes the first couple of steps and hand's not under the ball. Allowed. Then it's just a regular gather plus one two. No travel.

If anything the very first "dribble" where he lifts the pivot before putting the ball down is technically the travel.

As much as this is correct, this rule is stupid. The initial point of the 2 steps was to allow players to stop, and that was before this dumb 0 step was even a thing. Now, it is spammed for the sake of trying to get additional movements after the dribble, and looser and looser rules interpretations have made it so there is 5 steps after the last dribble that players are taking advantage of to gain as much non-dribbling advantage as they can.

Yep, this is an excellent take. It's a legal play, however, it's becoming more and more obvious that this rule grants players unprecedented levels of freedom. As someone said earlier, tall guys like Wemby or Giannis can technically get to the rim using just one dribble, provided the ball is still spinning in their hands. Giannis seems fully aware of the rule, while Wemby isn't quite there yet. But when he fully understands it, the league will be in trouble.

Today’s players are so much more skilled than past generations. Plumbers from the 90s wouldn’t be able to do this move without a travel being called.

This is 100% true. Guys today have unfair advantages compared to former players. A lot of the moves guys pull off now simply would have been illegal back then. They would have looked nice on video, however, on one wants to average 8 TOs a game due to carrying and travel violations.

Right. There are actually 2 questions here:
1. Is this a travel by the current NBA rules?
2. If it isn't, should it be?

Everyone's eye test screams "That's a travel!" But I can see how by the rules, it is legal.
I don't think anyone in this thread would argue that this is good basketball and should be legal to do.
The gather rule needs to be revised, I think the current gather rule encourages players to take advantage by keeping the ball just loose enough so you can take those extra steps.

[Invictus88]

I TLDR'ed the thread but Giannis is just trying to make the Tom Chambers unstoppable 3pt dunk a reality.

Watch on YouTube

[sikma42]

"A player who gathers the ball while progressing may take (1) two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball" This is the gather step rule the left foot at :9 is not a step by the rules in any league that plays nba or fiba in 2025.

When does the gather end? Does it end as theforumblue suggested, when the ball stops spinning? Or does it end later?

The ball stops spinning at :08 so if that is when the gather ends, his right foot is in the air when he has possession. Then after he has possession, his right foot hits the ground. Why is that not a step? Does he have to have possession before a foot is lifted off the ground for that foot hitting the ground to count as a step?

This is where the nuance lies
I think its a travel because the ball stops spinning and he palms it before he takes that third to last step. But its hard to pinpoint that in real time.

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, its not a 5 or 6 step travel.

don't think the ball spinning has matters with the travel call. Imo its when the hand is in a position on the ball where if he turned it over into a dribble then it would be a carry?

but we may be talking about similar things tho, just not sure you mean spinning or that the ball is fully at rest (the latter i think would make more sense - the ball can be bouncing straight up and not spinning necessarily but still be okay)

that really wasnt that egregious of a play for me.

[G35]

This is the root of the problem. The rule is very clear, and the dudes stuck in the 90s refuse to accept it. They continuously complain about phantom travels. They don't want to understand, they just want something to be upset about

First, this new gather rule was implemented in 2018. Fine. But it is a shotty rule that is giving players more advantages over defenders to do things that were not ever done before.

As people have been saying for a LONG time that young posters refuse to listen to that the modern NBA is creating rules to help the offense. But the rhetoric will be is that players are "more skilled" and "more talented". You cannot claim more talent when in the past you got 1.5 to 2 steps but now players can get six steps. That is not more talented.

Just wait until 2028 when the NBA comes up with a new rule called, "Travel as much as you want. Pick the ball up and run with it. We call it...RUBGY!".......

Literally everyone has agreed that the NBA has been implementing rules to make offense easier. You're arguing with a wall right now.

Clearly, based on the NBA rules, that was not a travel. You can be mad about the rule if you want I don't really care.

Well then you agree that players are not more talented and skilled. Good no argument from me.

The issue is that the NBA rule is terrible, it is not a good rule and that is what the argument is about. If you do not want to discuss that step out of the conversation.....

[kingr]

The issue is the 'gather step' , 'step through', and all of the steps that manipulate the rules to make things arguable. It's disgusting lol.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Coming late to say that that's obviously not a travel.
Tho hands on the ball - gather - 1 - 2.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

how come?

Clearly not a travel. You can take as many steps as you want between dribbles, steps don’t count until the gather.

He took 2 steps after the gather.

Case closed.

Boomers can complain about the gather itself (they always do) but it’s still in the rules

alright I guess

I would more review the carrying rules, as I don't like what I see.
But that's not a travel, clearly.

[GeorgeSears]

Not a travel because he hadn't gathered with the right hand.

If you dribble the ball and you take 10 steps before you dribble again, and your palm is above the ball (so you're not carrying), it's legal.

[lambchop]

What's sad isn't just that he did it but that the refs didn't call it either. It's been this way for a while where guys just pick up their dribble as soon as they get near the paint and then are allowed to run to the rim. There are almost no travels called in the paint anymore.

Ample evidence and explanations in this thread as to why it's not a travel. As I said, it's puzzling how guys know about VORP, RAPTOR, ORTG, VPN and BBC yet they have no idea how the game is even officiated.