PG: Defensive woes

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

The step to take is to look hard at trades to make a more balanced roster. If they can’t find it, and no reason to wait I mean they can look while they adjust, but adjust the lineup to add more defenders to the SL, rather than loading the SL with offense first players because of their contracts and feelings.

However, the minute you’ve seen enough know the coach is not the right person, start finding the right person. I don’t think Darko is that, but I also don’t think he’s the only problem and even with a better coach, we’d still need a better roster, although they may have the stroke and confidence to make lineup decisions, whereas Darko seems to be trying to just not rock the boat and play nice with the tools he’s given.

We need less 2’s less offensively focused players and more two way guys. We can’t do anything about the Poeltl or IQ signings now, but Raps aren’t that invested in Bobby, if he’s not careful and if he’s too cautious, Pelly may just bring in someone else to his job. It wouldn’t surprise me. We did noting this summer to get a true C depth which we’d shown we badly needed over multiple seasons. And it sounds like we extended a 30 yo c with back problems, for four years, two years earlier than we had too. How much difference with the feeling of the back injury if we don’t extend Jakob early? Maybe he doesn’t play in euro and saves his back for the season.

Honestly we better hope our guys are all top characters because other than RJ, they’ve all been paid and no matter what they’re set for the next four or five years - no matter what we do. We need the players to do more to save Darko and Bobby’s jobs, but the players themselves - the main guys are set. They don’t have to worry about anything there all set for the next 3-5 years. FO shot themselves in both feet and doomed their rebuild before it ever got off the ground. It’s a shame, but go jays. There’s a team. There’s some adults working together for a real goal, not insta vibes and reel engagements.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The step to take is to look hard at trades to make a more balanced roster. If they can’t find it, and no reason to wait I mean they can look while they adjust, but adjust the lineup to add more defenders to the SL, rather than loading the SL with offense first players because of their contracts and feelings.

However, the minute you’ve seen enough know the coach is not the right person, start finding the right person. I don’t think Darko is that, but I also don’t think he’s the only problem and even with a better coach, we’d still need a better roster, although they may have the stroke and confidence to make lineup decisions, whereas Darko seems to be trying to just not rock the boat and play nice with the tools he’s given.

We need less 2’s less offensively focused players and more two way guys. We can’t do anything about the Poeltl or IQ signings now, but Raps aren’t that invested in Bobby, if he’s not careful and if he’s too cautious, Pelly may just bring in someone else to his job. It wouldn’t surprise me. We did noting this summer to get a true C depth which we’d shown we badly needed over multiple seasons. And it sounds like we extended a 30 yo c with back problems, for four years, two years earlier than we had too. How much difference with the feeling of the back injury if we don’t extend Jakob early? Maybe he doesn’t play in euro and saves his back for the season.

Honestly we better hope our guys are all top characters because other than RJ, they’ve all been paid and no matter what they’re set for the next four or five years - no matter what we do.

You don't think Mamu has worked out? He's been great. Poeltl having a bad back and getting a big extension is a significant worry, but not too many teams have 3 good Cs.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

I think for a value signing Mamus been ok, however if we’re talking about having a back up C that can do legit back up C things, well he’s not that. He’s more a pf than a C and he’s not doing much defensively or on the glass.

Case in point, we didn’t start him to play C tonight, we started CMB. Thats why I said True C depth. Mamu is another 4 playing the 5, imo.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

The step to take is to look hard at trades to make a more balanced roster. If they can’t find it, and no reason to wait I mean they can look while they adjust, but adjust the lineup to add more defenders to the SL, rather than loading the SL with offense first players because of their contracts and feelings.

However, the minute you’ve seen enough know the coach is not the right person, start finding the right person. I don’t think Darko is that, but I also don’t think he’s the only problem and even with a better coach, we’d still need a better roster, although they may have the stroke and confidence to make lineup decisions, whereas Darko seems to be trying to just not rock the boat and play nice with the tools he’s given.

We need less 2’s less offensively focused players and more two way guys. We can’t do anything about the Poeltl or IQ signings now, but Raps aren’t that invested in Bobby, if he’s not careful and if he’s too cautious, Pelly may just bring in someone else to his job. It wouldn’t surprise me. We did noting this summer to get a true C depth which we’d shown we badly needed over multiple seasons. And it sounds like we extended a 30 yo c with back problems, for four years, two years earlier than we had too. How much difference with the feeling of the back injury if we don’t extend Jakob early? Maybe he doesn’t play in euro and saves his back for the season.

Honestly we better hope our guys are all top characters because other than RJ, they’ve all been paid and no matter what they’re set for the next four or five years - no matter what we do.

You don't think Mamu has worked out? He's been great. Poeltl having a bad back and getting a big extension is a significant worry, but not too many teams have 3 good Cs.

Honestly should be playing Mamu at the 4 and CMB at bench 3. We need an actual backup big. Getting out rounded -20 every night will make us a lottery team.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think for a value signing Mamus been ok, however if we’re talking about having a back up C that can do legit back up C things, well he’s not that. He’s more a pf than a C and he’s not doing much defensively or on the glass.

Case in point, we didn’t start him to play C tonight, we started CMB. Thats why I said True C depth. Mamu is another 4 playing the 5, imo.

The Pacers almost won a title with Obi Toppin playing back-up C. He's one of the lowest IQ defenders in the league. Mamu could have easily started last night, though. The team has been just fine defensively when he's been on the floor. The team's defensive rebounding has been 70% when he's on.

Could they use another big now that Poeltl seems like he needs a longer road to get healthy? Sure. They lost one option to a life threatening situation just before the season started. Health has accounted for two Cs at a time when we're playing all the league's biggest teams.

[Raps in 4]

What does our record have to be to restart the tWo thread?

[LoveMyRaps]

CMB is definitely an NBA starter.


Ideally this is what I want the team to look like...


(LEGIT POINT GUARD)/Shead
Ingram/Ochai
Scottie/Dick
CMB/Mamu
Poeltl/(LEGIT BACKUP C)


Use RJ + IQ to get a legit point guard if you must.

[LoveMyRaps]

What does our record have to be to restart the tWo thread?

It's already up and running, but I'll hold off until end of Nov before hopping on tWO bandwagon.

November schedule is pretty easy IMO, so if we continue to underperform, I'm all in on #LOSEFORBOOZE

[DelAbbot]

CMB is definitely an NBA starter.


Ideally this is what I want the team to look like...


(LEGIT POINT GUARD)/Shead
Ingram/Ochai
Scottie/Dick
CMB/Mamu
Poeltl/(LEGIT BACKUP C)


Use RJ + IQ to get a legit point guard if you must.

Ouch! Your banner is IQ yet you are trash talking him

BTW why does IQ look like he's wearing a black-laced bra in the rightmost pic of your banner?

[LoveMyRaps]

CMB is definitely an NBA starter.


Ideally this is what I want the team to look like...


(LEGIT POINT GUARD)/Shead
Ingram/Ochai
Scottie/Dick
CMB/Mamu
Poeltl/(LEGIT BACKUP C)


Use RJ + IQ to get a legit point guard if you must.

Ouch! Your banner is IQ yet you are trash talking him

BTW why does IQ look like he's wearing a black-laced bra in the rightmost pic of your banner?

Where am I trash talking IQ? LOL

I'm just saying if you can use RJ and IQ to get a significant upgrade at the PG position, you do it 10/10 times.

I love RJ too, but it won't stop me from including him in trade proposals which could benefit this team.

[LoveMyRaps]

Read on Twitter

Preseason had me thinking this team's defense would be really really good.

It's been the complete opposite. Horrendous defense. Again, Poeltl is supposed to be our anchor but he's been a liability. IQ and RJ have been trying, but they just don't have it. Ingram doesn't have it either but at least he's making up for it on the offensive end. Scottie and CMB are gifted defenders (although Scottie can be better).

[LoveMyRaps]

Bench Mob 2.0 my ass.

They've been terrible.

Mamu is the only guy helping us off the bench.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Bench Mob 2.0 my ass.

They've been terrible.

Mamu is the only guy helping us off the bench.

No, the bench has actually been better than the starters.

The worst bench player is a -4.9 (Shead).

The best starter is Scottie at -7.

[tsherkin]

Bench Mob 2.0 my ass.

They've been terrible.

Mamu is the only guy helping us off the bench.

No, the bench has actually been better than the starters.

The worst bench player is a -4.9 (Shead).

The best starter is Scottie at -7.

TBF, though, that's not really reflective of Scottie's actual level of play, and the sample size is tiny anyway. So it's hard to use that as a meaningful data point. Like, he's +0.1 O-EPM, +1.0 D-EPM, he's scoring very efficiently in volume, etc, etc. So his look on the team while it's floundering around him isn't super reflective of his individual efficacy.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Bench Mob 2.0 my ass.

They've been terrible.

Mamu is the only guy helping us off the bench.

No, the bench has actually been better than the starters.

The worst bench player is a -4.9 (Shead).

The best starter is Scottie at -7.

TBF, though, that's not really reflective of Scottie's actual level of play, and the sample size is tiny anyway. So it's hard to use that as a meaningful data point. Like, he's +0.1 O-EPM, +1.0 D-EPM, he's scoring very efficiently in volume, etc, etc. So his look on the team while it's floundering around him isn't super reflective of his individual efficacy.

Among the starters he's the least worst, which would align with what you said. The net rating is just a general gauge of which line-ups are losing. There's starting 5 data with Poeltl that's -20.5, and then with CMB that's -63. Scottie, Ingram, RJ are really efficient within that at volume, but when they're on the court together it's not efficient (102 O Rating). So the end result is most likely that the bench combos are providing better offense for our main players. I'd bet if you combed through line-up data in two man combos you'd find a lot of Scottie/BI/RJ are winning more with bench players than with each other.

Of course, this data is early and noisy. The bench mob is not the reason we're losing.

[tsherkin]

Among the starters he's the least worst, which would align with what you said. The net rating is just a general gauge of which line-ups are losing. There's starting 5 data with Poeltl that's -20.5, and then with CMB that's -63. Scottie, Ingram, RJ are really efficient within that at volume, but when they're on the court together it's not efficient (102 O Rating). So the end result is most likely that the bench combos are providing better offense for our main players. I'd bet if you combed through line-up data in two man combos you'd find a lot of Scottie/BI/RJ are winning more with bench players than with each other.

Of course, this data is early and noisy. The bench mob is not the reason we're losing.

I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to discern that the bench isn't the sole reason we're losing games. That makes sense. We have a LOT of different issues right now. We're getting our asses kicked in general. We're the 3rd-worst defense in the league early on in the season, we blow on the defensive boards, we're fouling like crazy, we are total dog-ass at limiting opposition shot-making... and we're an awful offensive rebounding team so far.

On such a team, there are problems all over. What I was saying is that looking at an individual player like Scottie and pointing out that he's at a -7 doesn't really indicate anything of value at the moment, given what he's actually contributing. We'd be even worse without what he's providing.

As you say, the bench has its contributions and that wasn't where I was pushing back

[ATLTimekeeper]

Among the starters he's the least worst, which would align with what you said. The net rating is just a general gauge of which line-ups are losing. There's starting 5 data with Poeltl that's -20.5, and then with CMB that's -63. Scottie, Ingram, RJ are really efficient within that at volume, but when they're on the court together it's not efficient (102 O Rating). So the end result is most likely that the bench combos are providing better offense for our main players. I'd bet if you combed through line-up data in two man combos you'd find a lot of Scottie/BI/RJ are winning more with bench players than with each other.

Of course, this data is early and noisy. The bench mob is not the reason we're losing.

I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to discern that the bench isn't the sole reason we're losing games. That makes sense. We have a LOT of different issues right now. We're getting our asses kicked in general. We're the 3rd-worst defense in the league early on in the season, we blow on the defensive boards, we're fouling like crazy, we are total dog-ass at limiting opposition shot-making... and we're an awful offensive rebounding team so far.

On such a team, there are problems all over. What I was saying is that looking at an individual player like Scottie and pointing out that he's at a -7 doesn't really indicate anything of value at the moment, given what he's actually contributing. We'd be even worse without what he's providing.

As you say, the bench has its contributions and that wasn't where I was pushing back

But you jumped into a conversation about the bench. Scottie was just used as an example, not to highlight Scottie but to highlight the starters. You just didn't see the context and saw the reference as something else.

[tsherkin]

But you jumped into a conversation about the bench. Scottie was just used as an example, not to highlight Scottie but to highlight the starters. You just didn't see the context and saw the reference as something else.

Sure, but it's not a useful example because the data isn't meaningful at this point. The starters are getting smacked, and over such a small sample, OF COURSE those types of numbers are going to look a given way. The point wasn't to contend that the bench was bad, but that pointing to a specific number like that was mildly misleading when you land it on a particular player. You looked at one of our best players and pointing out a dramatically negative number, which has a series of implications.

[ATLTimekeeper]

But you jumped into a conversation about the bench. Scottie was just used as an example, not to highlight Scottie but to highlight the starters. You just didn't see the context and saw the reference as something else.

Sure, but it's not a useful example because the data isn't meaningful at this point. The starters are getting smacked, and over such a small sample, OF COURSE those types of numbers are going to look a given way. The point wasn't to contend that the bench was bad, but that pointing to a specific number like that was mildly misleading when you land it on a particular player. You looked at one of our best players and pointing out a dramatically negative number, which has a series of implications.

If I removed the names entirely, the point still works. I looked at the best number for the starters and the worst for the bench, and those are the two names that came up.

There's also a small sample of games, so may as well not talk about any of this, if that's the line you want to travel.

[TakeYourHeart]

Bench Mob 2.0 my ass.

They've been terrible.

Mamu is the only guy helping us off the bench.

Bench Sob 1.0