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GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN

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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#681 » by AkelaLoneWolf » Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:07 pm

Troubadour wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:I think a pretty positive note is both Scottie and Ingram went off against a good defensive team. At least that’s their reputation. Some of it absurd hot shooting but I feel a lot better when our best players play like it even if we lose.


All three of Scottie (64%), Ingram (64%) and RJ (66%) are above 60% TS right now. None of them have ever had a full season above 60% before. I'd be shocked if even one of them finished above 60% TS and it feels like this is what is making the offence work right now.

The more pertinent question is how are they getting their points? If it’s more 3 pointers and tough contested shots then there will be variability but if it’s FT and paint points they may hang in there a bit longer
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#682 » by AkelaLoneWolf » Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:08 pm

Tha Cynic wrote:Sigh I really wish we had kept Davion Mitchell and gotten rid of anyone else. He would be the perfect cheap starting PG on this team

Teams would just be cheating off him then. You have to be able to shoot the 3 consistently in this league if you’re a guard
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#683 » by Troubadour » Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:08 pm

No Jakob Poeltl on Friday against Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen. Do the Cavs hit 150 points?

Grizzlies on Sunday. Low turnover team, elite guard who drives 14.8 times per game, what could go wrong?
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#684 » by JB7 » Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:13 pm

Troubadour wrote:No Jakob Poeltl on Friday against Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen. Do the Cavs hit 150 points?

Grizzlies on Sunday. Low turnover team, elite guard who drives 14.8 times per game, what could go wrong?


Yep, and then the Bucks again on Tuesday. Only hope there is the Bucks are playing in Indy on Monday night, so maybe they don't play Giannis on the back to back in Toronto on Tuesday night.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#685 » by YogurtProducer » Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:19 pm

Troubadour wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:We also couldn't afford a $12M backup who is extremely, extremely limited. Outside of contenders, every NBA team is rolling with Shead and his cheap deal and hoping he provided 90% of Davion for 10% of the price.

Shead also has been FAR from the problem so far this year. He has not been amazing, but he has played his role pretty solid.


Yeah, Shead has been as good as Davion this year. Also dude has legit rim protectors behind him with the Heat.


Davion Mitchell is a much better defender than Jamal Shead. That might change, but it's a much bigger gap than 10%.

Is he? Its not like our offence got much better with Davion vs Shead last year.

Plus , the impact a player can have defensively at the PG position is fairly limited. Shead has been a better offensive player this year than Davion, and I don't think Davion's defense is so much better that it ultimately really matters. Swap out Davion for Shead and we are still 1-4, and still near the bottom of the league defensively.

I liked Davion a lot. But he wasn't changing **** here lol
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#686 » by YogurtProducer » Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:24 pm

AkelaLoneWolf wrote:
Troubadour wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:I think a pretty positive note is both Scottie and Ingram went off against a good defensive team. At least that’s their reputation. Some of it absurd hot shooting but I feel a lot better when our best players play like it even if we lose.


All three of Scottie (64%), Ingram (64%) and RJ (66%) are above 60% TS right now. None of them have ever had a full season above 60% before. I'd be shocked if even one of them finished above 60% TS and it feels like this is what is making the offence work right now.

The more pertinent question is how are they getting their points? If it’s more 3 pointers and tough contested shots then there will be variability but if it’s FT and paint points they may hang in there a bit longer

Scottie is shooting 55% from 3. Ingram 45%. Rj 36%.

On the flip side, IQ is at 27%, Dick 31%, JKW 25%, Ochai 12%. So really our good shooters should progress and our bad ones regress. I expect IQ is gonna see increases in both %'s and 3pt rate. Barnes WILL regress. Ingram will to, but I also think he is a guy who could be a 40% guy over a year to.

The entire issue is defence. And on the flip side, our offence has not been getting easier looks cause we are going against set defences so often after maeks
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#687 » by ATLTimekeeper » Thu Oct 30, 2025 8:28 pm

Troubadour wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:We also couldn't afford a $12M backup who is extremely, extremely limited. Outside of contenders, every NBA team is rolling with Shead and his cheap deal and hoping he provided 90% of Davion for 10% of the price.

Shead also has been FAR from the problem so far this year. He has not been amazing, but he has played his role pretty solid.


Yeah, Shead has been as good as Davion this year. Also dude has legit rim protectors behind him with the Heat.


Davion Mitchell is a much better defender than Jamal Shead. That might change, but it's a much bigger gap than 10%.


Yes, but Shead is more dynamic on offense. Davion has thousands of NBA minutes under his belt. He's incredible defensively. Shead will likely get there sooner than later. I'm not even that big of a fan, but Davion is not the difference on this team.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#688 » by Jerry Lucas » Thu Oct 30, 2025 9:51 pm

Game 5 Win Shares summary:

Yesterday the players combined for exactly 0 Win Shares, and got the 4th L of the season.

Scottie: 0.1 WS
Mogbo: 0.1 WS

RJ: -0.1 WS
IQ: -0.1 WS

Everyone else that played yesterday had between -0.04 to 0.04 Win Shares (either rounds up to 0 instead of down to -0.1, or rounds down to 0 instead of up to 0.1).
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#689 » by MEDIC » Thu Oct 30, 2025 10:40 pm

What was everyone's take on the BI offensive foul? I thought it was BS. It wasn't his fault that the dude hit his arm with his face.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#690 » by MEDIC » Thu Oct 30, 2025 10:45 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
TorontoBarneys wrote:
Tha Cynic wrote:Sigh I really wish we had kept Davion Mitchell and gotten rid of anyone else. He would be the perfect cheap starting PG on this team


This is why I don't value age & potential much for low ceiling roleplayers. Mitchell was already a solid back-up. We got greedy.

We also couldn't afford a $12M backup who is extremely, extremely limited. Outside of contenders, every NBA team is rolling with Shead and his cheap deal and hoping he provided 90% of Davion for 10% of the price.

Shead also has been FAR from the problem so far this year. He has not been amazing, but he has played his role pretty solid.


I think this argument s more Mitchell vs. IQ.

12 million for Mitchell as a stop gap starting PG

Vs

32 million for IQ long term
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#691 » by bape_lovers » Thu Oct 30, 2025 11:53 pm

Pretty sure if it’s a raptor on defence, we would get called against us

MEDIC wrote:What was everyone's take on the BI offensive foul? I thought it was BS. It wasn't his fault that the dude hit his arm with his face.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#692 » by YogurtProducer » Fri Oct 31, 2025 1:06 am

MEDIC wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
TorontoBarneys wrote:
This is why I don't value age & potential much for low ceiling roleplayers. Mitchell was already a solid back-up. We got greedy.

We also couldn't afford a $12M backup who is extremely, extremely limited. Outside of contenders, every NBA team is rolling with Shead and his cheap deal and hoping he provided 90% of Davion for 10% of the price.

Shead also has been FAR from the problem so far this year. He has not been amazing, but he has played his role pretty solid.


I think this argument s more Mitchell vs. IQ.

12 million for Mitchell as a stop gap starting PG

Vs

32 million for IQ long term
Assuming IQ regains his shooting and is the 20/5/7 58-59TS% guy I am sure the team envisioned, you take IQ. His upside is just way higher than Davion, who was given away for nothing twice for a reason (and why IQ was a key return in a trade for OG).

This board has decided he is the whipping boy for some reason, but outside of poor 3pt shooting, he has been good in pretty much every other area. Finishing well (literally 90% at the rim with 1 miss... guess which shot the GT freaked out about), playmaking well and protecting the ball, and overall playing within the offence.

If you had to ask me which player between IQ/RJ/BI/Scottie in the future could be a starter on a championship team in his current role, the only answer is IQ. RJ cannot be a starter. BI is not a good enough scorer to offset his defensive limitations (Demar 2.0), and Scottie in his current role is just not sustainable (unless this 3 ball is real?).

IDK. I just really think the IQ hate is a bit extreme right now.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#693 » by MEDIC » Fri Oct 31, 2025 1:34 am

bape_lovers wrote:Pretty sure if it’s a raptor on defence, we would get called against us

MEDIC wrote:What was everyone's take on the BI offensive foul? I thought it was BS. It wasn't his fault that the dude hit his arm with his face.


Probably.

I was thinking "if that was Durant, it would have been an And1". No doubt about it.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#694 » by MEDIC » Fri Oct 31, 2025 1:50 am

YogurtProducer wrote:
MEDIC wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:We also couldn't afford a $12M backup who is extremely, extremely limited. Outside of contenders, every NBA team is rolling with Shead and his cheap deal and hoping he provided 90% of Davion for 10% of the price.

Shead also has been FAR from the problem so far this year. He has not been amazing, but he has played his role pretty solid.


I think this argument s more Mitchell vs. IQ.

12 million for Mitchell as a stop gap starting PG

Vs

32 million for IQ long term
Assuming IQ regains his shooting and is the 20/5/7 58-59TS% guy I am sure the team envisioned, you take IQ. His upside is just way higher than Davion, who was given away for nothing twice for a reason (and why IQ was a key return in a trade for OG).

This board has decided he is the whipping boy for some reason, but outside of poor 3pt shooting, he has been good in pretty much every other area. Finishing well (literally 90% at the rim with 1 miss... guess which shot the GT freaked out about), playmaking well and protecting the ball, and overall playing within the offence.

If you had to ask me which player between IQ/RJ/BI/Scottie in the future could be a starter on a championship team in his current role, the only answer is IQ. RJ cannot be a starter. BI is not a good enough scorer to offset his defensive limitations (Demar 2.0), and Scottie in his current role is just not sustainable (unless this 3 ball is real?).

IDK. I just really think the IQ hate is a bit extreme right now.


That's great that the team envisioned that an all, but all that matters is actual production. The 3 red flags that I saw when he arrived was 1st step, playmaking and defense.......and that was when he was shooting well. People.wanted another Maxey, but they all learned quickly that he is far from that.

He isn't dynamic enough as a scorer. He seems very 1 dimensional to me..He doesn't have enough elite skills.

Having said all of that, I hope you are right & he can become everything people envisioned + more.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#695 » by YogurtProducer » Fri Oct 31, 2025 2:24 am

MEDIC wrote:That's great that the team envisioned that an all, but all that matters is actual production. The 3 red flags that I saw when he arrived was 1st step, playmaking and defense.......and that was when he was shooting well.

Well if you have a player who has a great shot, 1st step, playmaking, and defense, we are talking about an all-nba player. That is kind of an unfair bar to put on a guy. Hell, even a guy who is only "good" in those 4 areas is an all-star point guard.

Like I said, his playmaking is just weirdly getting focused on when he has actually been fine there. Fanbases complain about their PG's "pounding the ball" or "hijacking the offence" but that is just the reality of being a main ball handler. Like I have said before - this board has complained about every PG we have ever had for doing that, including Lowry.

People.wanted another Maxey, but they all learned quickly that he is far from that.
Just because IQ is not a borderline all-nba player doesn't mean he is bad or anything. Anyone who expected a 25ppg scorer when we traded for IQ had way to high of expectations from day 1

He isn't dynamic enough as a scorer. He seems very 1 dimensional to me..He doesn't have enough elite skills.
I mean I don't really see that. Great shooter. Great protector of the ball. Decent defensively (despite what everyone thinks, it is very hard to keep guys in front of you in this league). And he also has a solid floater and finishes pretty decent for a PG.

He is not a star, but he also isn't paid to be a star either. $32.5M in this day and age is not a lot. He is paid the same as the Jerami Grants, Jordan Pooles, Jalen Johnson, Andrew Wiggins, Hartensteins, etc. of the league. Then there is obviously guys like Brunson (huge underpay), Sengun (rookie max underpay), Herro (expires next year), etc. By the time year 5 comes around the guy is gonna be paid the equivalent of like $20M today.

I just think guys got their expectations way to high from the get go.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#696 » by Potential » Fri Oct 31, 2025 3:04 am

I haven't paid attention since the Hawks game. No way we're 1-4? Those scores look sad how are these bums giving up 135+ every game. Expensive ass 1-4 team
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#697 » by MEDIC » Fri Oct 31, 2025 3:18 am

I like Quickley. Seems like a super nice guy. Good teammate.

He's just not my type of PG. PG's typically have a quick first step. I think it's really important to have as much resistance to dribble penetration as possible, so help defenders have a chance.

I think we were spoiled with Kyle all those years. Other than not having the quickest first step, he could do everything else you want from a PG.

I don't want to keep harping on him because I want the best for the team and for him. If I was to upgrade 2 positions on this team though, it would be PG & C. I think the team would be in pretty good shape moving forward.
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Re: GT #5 - Raptors (1-3) vs Rockets (1-2) - October 29th, 2025 - 6:30PM EST - TSN 

Post#698 » by nikster » Fri Oct 31, 2025 9:47 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
MEDIC wrote:That's great that the team envisioned that an all, but all that matters is actual production. The 3 red flags that I saw when he arrived was 1st step, playmaking and defense.......and that was when he was shooting well.

Well if you have a player who has a great shot, 1st step, playmaking, and defense, we are talking about an all-nba player. That is kind of an unfair bar to put on a guy. Hell, even a guy who is only "good" in those 4 areas is an all-star point guard.

Like I said, his playmaking is just weirdly getting focused on when he has actually been fine there. Fanbases complain about their PG's "pounding the ball" or "hijacking the offence" but that is just the reality of being a main ball handler. Like I have said before - this board has complained about every PG we have ever had for doing that, including Lowry.

People.wanted another Maxey, but they all learned quickly that he is far from that.
Just because IQ is not a borderline all-nba player doesn't mean he is bad or anything. Anyone who expected a 25ppg scorer when we traded for IQ had way to high of expectations from day 1

He isn't dynamic enough as a scorer. He seems very 1 dimensional to me..He doesn't have enough elite skills.
I mean I don't really see that. Great shooter. Great protector of the ball. Decent defensively (despite what everyone thinks, it is very hard to keep guys in front of you in this league). And he also has a solid floater and finishes pretty decent for a PG.

He is not a star, but he also isn't paid to be a star either. $32.5M in this day and age is not a lot. He is paid the same as the Jerami Grants, Jordan Pooles, Jalen Johnson, Andrew Wiggins, Hartensteins, etc. of the league. Then there is obviously guys like Brunson (huge underpay), Sengun (rookie max underpay), Herro (expires next year), etc. By the time year 5 comes around the guy is gonna be paid the equivalent of like $20M today.

I just think guys got their expectations way to high from the get go.

Yeah I think his poor shooting has made him a scape goat were all his other weaknesses are getting amplified. He's actually been great at finishing inside the 3 point line which is an improvement i wanted to see. If he keeps that up when his shooting returns im happy with we are getting out of him

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