Pablo Torre: Ty Lue Linked to Chauncey Billups’ Gambling Scandal

[Sofia]

Inb4 Kawhi placed a bet

KL2 GiveMeMyMoney LLC

Balmer trying to get out of the contract extension by calling the MGM and putting on a voice like “Hi this is Kawhi Leonard and this is how I talk. Put $500k on the other team”

[Shock Defeat]

Perhaps all the money won in those rigged poker games was funneled directly to kawhi as a way to circumvent the cap.

[Mr Puddles]

It continues to amaze me how eager these multi millionaires are to mess up their cozy lives for relative chump change.

You're born with genetic gifts during a small sliver of time in human history where these unique attributes allow you to earn tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars - and rather than cashing in the winning lottery ticket and spending the rest of your life spending, you jeopardize everything because apparently generational wealth is not enough.

From Big Baby to Billups, it's incomprehensible how dumb these guys are.

[Lalouie]

Watch on YouTube

Skip to the 9 minute mark.

Clippers front office is just full of scammers and crooks aren’t they?

i'll wait for when the fbi ties up all the loose ends in the investigation cuz right now there's just scattered road kill

who cares who was where and when. windhorst's latest interview is with a lawyer who was with manhattan southern district, and basically she explains all the happenings and what may or may not result.

it sounded like a lot of mulch and heresay for right now. i don't find it interesting when i listen to torre's latest because with what the lawyer said on the hoop collective as a backdrop, torres is sounding a bit like tmz. there are many players who know players who know players

yes lue shook hands ,,,,so what

he prolly woke up this morning with a text from a friend saying "hey guess what, torres mentions you shaking hands with,,,,,,,". and so now some news reporter is going to ask lue about the handshake.

[Bucks4005]

I give Pablo credit for his investigative work. But I do not enjoy his style of podcast. He conceals info and then reveals it only slowly. He has admitted in interviews this is a deliberate choice because he wants his guests to be surprised by the reveal. I wish he would get to the point faster. It often seems that he has made his mind up already but it annoys me to listen to him speaking in a conclusory way and being coy about not showing the supporting evidence. Maybe I am just impatient.

If this is how he makes his money (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), then drip feeding information makes sense.

Yes, agreed. Just not my cup of tea. I could read all the underlying documents faster than listening to Pablo drip feed me. I like him as a journalist. But not a consumer of his podcast. Others may enjoy the slow delivery and that is totally fine. It's entertainment.

At the same time, this slow reveal of info has made some people look really stupid. Like, the Clippers make a statement, only for him to have something that directly contradicts that info. I don’t mind it because it really emphasizes the validity of his stuff when he lets the one being reported on throw themselves under the bus with their statements.

[Larry Ellison]

If this is how he makes his money (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), then drip feeding information makes sense.

Yes, agreed. Just not my cup of tea. I could read all the underlying documents faster than listening to Pablo drip feed me. I like him as a journalist. But not a consumer of his podcast. Others may enjoy the slow delivery and that is totally fine. It's entertainment.

At the same time, this slow reveal of info has made some people look really stupid. Like, the Clippers make a statement, only for him to have something that directly contradicts that info. I don’t mind it because it really emphasizes the validity of his stuff when he lets the one being reported on throw themselves under the bus with their statements.

That's a good point. At the beginning, when I thought Aspiration was just one of many companies that Ballmer invested in, I found his explanations believable. Or, maybe a better way to say it is I found Pablo's allegations unproven. Not false, just based on anonymous sourcing, about which I was skeptical. As additional evidence trickled out, it became clear there was much more to the story. And it made the initial Clips statements look disingenuous. I changed my opinion and admitted as much on this Board. I am not telling Pablo how to do his job. I am just a lawyer, not a podcaster. I have no expertise in how to do a podcast in a way that generates clicks and media coverage. Pablo went viral so he is clearly doing something right. I was speaking only as a listener. I want to hear the key info and quickly. It is just the way I am wired. No judgments of Pablo or his listeners.

[Cavsfansince84]

It continues to amaze me how eager these multi millionaires are to mess up their cozy lives for relative chump change.

You're born with genetic gifts during a small sliver of time in human history where these unique attributes allow you to earn tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars - and rather than cashing in the winning lottery ticket and spending the rest of your life spending, you jeopardize everything because apparently generational wealth is not enough.

From Big Baby to Billups, it's incomprehensible how dumb these guys are.

I don't think all of these guys are doing this as just some sort of side hustle. The fact that the mob seems to be connected tells me some of these guys likely owed millions to them before they were told what to do to make it right. Whether its rigged poker games or doing something to help throw a game. Guys do this sort of stuff because the only other option is letting the mob settle it the other way.

[jbk1234]

Did Lue win, or was he one of the marks who didn't realize the game was rigged?

[druggas]

This is sounding like Watergate.

[Airmiess]

Did Lue win, or was he one of the marks who didn't realize the game was rigged?

Sometimes there are guys whose job is to lose "gracefully", to make it look legit.

[Mavrelous]

The most interesting part about this saga and the Ballmer/Aspiration saga, is that an independent reporter with a small budget was able to get much better and damning info than the FBI with all their resources, and Wachtall Lipton and their multi million $ fees for each "investigation".

[Larry Ellison]

The most interesting part about this saga and the Ballmer/Aspiration saga, is that an independent reporter was able to get much better and damning info than the FBI with all their resources, and Wachtall Lipton and their multi million $ fees for each "investigation".

Respectfully, we don't know what evidence Wachtell Lipton has in its possession. That investigation is confidential and findings have not yet been released. Most/all of the documents that started Pablo down this road were publicly available as part of the Aspiration BK proceeding. Of course Wachtell has reviewed all of those documents. When Pablo blew the Aspiration story, he drew attention to an issue that was largely unknown to the general public. That notoriety made him a magnet for people to approach him anonymously with tips. It seems likely he now has some nonpublic info and sources. You should assume Wachtell has a list of every Aspiration employee, every Clips employee, everybody connected to Aspiration's funding rounds and discussions with potential investors, and other witnesses, and has reached out to them. The difference between Wachtell and Pablo is if they interview someone, the substance of that discussion may be memorialized in an internal memo, but it would never be publicly disclosed.

Pablo deserves credit. But it would be more accurate to compare him to other journalists and media outlets, not to FBI and Wachtell, which both are going to safeguard the confidentiality of their evidence, sources, and methods.

[Mavrelous]

The most interesting part about this saga and the Ballmer/Aspiration saga, is that an independent reporter was able to get much better and damning info than the FBI with all their resources, and Wachtall Lipton and their multi million $ fees for each "investigation".

Respectfully, we don't know what evidence Wachtell Lipton has in its possession. That investigation is confidential and findings have not yet been released. Most/all of the documents that started Pablo down this road were publicly available as part of the Aspiration BK proceeding. Of course Wachtell has reviewed all of those documents. When Pablo blew the Aspiration story, he drew attention to an issue that was largely unknown to the general public. That notoriety made him a magnet for people to approach him anonymously with tips. It seems likely he now has some nonpublic info and sources. You should assume Wachtell has a list of every Aspiration employee, every Clips employee, everybody connected to Aspiration's funding rounds and discussions with potential investors, and other witnesses, and has reached out to them. The difference between Wachtell and Pablo is if they interview someone, the substance of that discussion may be memorialized in an internal memo, but it would never be publicly disclosed.

Pablo deserves credit. But it would be more accurate to compare him to other journalists and media outlets, not to FBI and Wachtell, which both are going to safeguard the confidentiality of their evidence, sources, and methods.

I was referencing the Rozier investigation that found no wrong doing, WL haven't yet presented the results of their Aspiration investigation so we can't judge it.
Rozier was investigated and league decided not pursue further actions (now insisting they didn't "clear" him), watching this episode of PTFO and the Beasley one, one can wonder, how exactly did the league NOT find anything in their 1st investigation.

[TheAlchemist]

I dunno what the clippers did to piss this man off but holllly. My vindictive psycho ex girlfriend didn’t hold a grudge this bad

[Larry Ellison]

Did Lue win, or was he one of the marks who didn't realize the game was rigged?

A very good question that illuminates the limits of what Pablo has so far asserted, which is that Lue was good friends with Damon and Chauncey. Ok, nothing illegal about that. Pablo is implying wrongdoing without even being specific about whether Lue was perp or victim. Where there is smoke, there is fire, is what Pablo wants us to believe. He is drip feeding us again. I really hate how he does this because he wants listeners to buy in to his conclusions before he proves them. Guilt by insinuation. Stay tuned! I will skip the podcasts and wait for real evidence to be disclosed.

I do think we could be looking at a tip of the iceberg situation with this NBA gambling scandal. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds. But Pablo is messing with people's reputations for clicks. He better not be wrong. In the old days of print journalism, newspaper editors would vet sources before investigative articles were ever printed.

[Larry Ellison]

The most interesting part about this saga and the Ballmer/Aspiration saga, is that an independent reporter was able to get much better and damning info than the FBI with all their resources, and Wachtall Lipton and their multi million $ fees for each "investigation".

Respectfully, we don't know what evidence Wachtell Lipton has in its possession. That investigation is confidential and findings have not yet been released. Most/all of the documents that started Pablo down this road were publicly available as part of the Aspiration BK proceeding. Of course Wachtell has reviewed all of those documents. When Pablo blew the Aspiration story, he drew attention to an issue that was largely unknown to the general public. That notoriety made him a magnet for people to approach him anonymously with tips. It seems likely he now has some nonpublic info and sources. You should assume Wachtell has a list of every Aspiration employee, every Clips employee, everybody connected to Aspiration's funding rounds and discussions with potential investors, and other witnesses, and has reached out to them. The difference between Wachtell and Pablo is if they interview someone, the substance of that discussion may be memorialized in an internal memo, but it would never be publicly disclosed.

Pablo deserves credit. But it would be more accurate to compare him to other journalists and media outlets, not to FBI and Wachtell, which both are going to safeguard the confidentiality of their evidence, sources, and methods.

I was referencing the Rozier investigation that found no wrong doing, WL haven't yet presented the results of their Aspiration investigation so we can't judge it.
Rozier was investigated and league decided not pursue further actions (now insisting they didn't "clear" him), watching this episode of PTFO and the Beasley one, one can wonder, how exactly did the league NOT find anything in their 1st investigation.

Got it. I appreciate that clarification. NBA dropped the ball on Rozier. We can agree on that.

[-Luke-]

Coach of the Year goes to the guy who isn't in jail by April.

[The4thHorseman]

Did Lue win, or was he one of the marks who didn't realize the game was rigged?

Sometimes there are guys whose job is to lose "gracefully", to make it look legit.

That's probably a reason why to get fresh fish due to them not knowing how often Billups or others win in these regular sessions.

[Larry Ellison]

Did Lue win, or was he one of the marks who didn't realize the game was rigged?

Sometimes there are guys whose job is to lose "gracefully", to make it look legit.

That's probably a reason why to get fresh fish due to them not knowing how often Billups or others win in these regular sessions.

It seems unlikely that Lue was a mark if he was friends with Chauncey, who was arrested for being in on the scheme. I think the marks were actually poker pros who came to the game thinking they had an edge, but didn't. Or high net worth amateurs who were reasonably skilled at poker themselves. I've played quite a lot of poker over the years. Of course, not the high stakes these guys were playing, and never in private games like this. Private games are risky because there is elevated risk of cheating and most players are in the game on credit. They are not bringing bags of cash to the game. It is up to the sponsor of the game to collect from losers and pay winners.

Poker pro Matt Berkey did a podcast in 2023, before this scandal broke, where he talked about being invited to a game in Vegas that included Chauncey, but he said no because he knew some people involved and suspected cheating. He talked about how pros can spot cheating even if they don't know the exact mechanism for how it is being accomplished. When people who don't have any apparent knowledge of poker strategy and odds risk huge amounts of money on long shot bets, and win at a rate that far outstrips the math, that is a red flag.

Edit: Fresh article out in NYT talking about this. NYT has paywall. Here is a brief quote: "Earnest was released from federal custody in February 2019, according to the Bureau of Prisons. At the time, Billups was out of the NBA. Two months later, in April, according to the indictment, there was a rigged poker game in Las Vegas where Billups and Earnest were present, with Billups acting as described as a “Face Card,” used to attract high-net-worth individuals. “Spook and Chauncey hit 2 gutshot on the river against the same guy … both calls were over 30k,” texted one participant in the scheme, according to a detention order submitted by the government. “So I was thinking maybe instead of u playing we let let one of the middle eastern guy play…and whenever he got the winning hand Chauncey and/ spook lose to him…”"

They were aware of the outlier outcomes and trying to camouflage it. For those who don't play poker, "hitting a gutshot" means making a straight in a situation where the missing card is somewhere in the middle of the sequence. There would be, at most, 4 cards in the deck that could make a winning hand for you in that situation. Odds of success to do that on the river (the last card dealt to the board) is 8.7%. That's assuming none of your "outs" have already been dealt to another player as part of their hand. It's not a situation where a smart player would risk a lot of money. The goal in poker is to get your money in when odds favor you. Chauncey was dumb thinking the other players wouldn't notice.

[sisibilio]

I give Pablo credit for his investigative work. But I do not enjoy his style of podcast. He conceals info and then reveals it only slowly. He has admitted in interviews this is a deliberate choice because he wants his guests to be surprised by the reveal. I wish he would get to the point faster. It often seems that he has made his mind up already but it annoys me to listen to him speaking in a conclusory way and being coy about not showing the supporting evidence. Maybe I am just impatient.

If this is what It takes to have honest, independent journalism i have no problem. It's a small price to pay

If this is how he makes his money (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), then drip feeding information makes sense.

Yes, agreed. Just not my cup of tea. I could read all the underlying documents faster than listening to Pablo drip feed me. I like him as a journalist. But not a consumer of his podcast. Others may enjoy the slow delivery and that is totally fine. It's entertainment.

If this is what It takes to have honest and independent journalism i have no problem. It's a small price to pay.