Moving Flagg, DAL & SAS

[One_and_Done]

Somebody liked a post of mine in this thread and brought this back to my attention. Interesting going through all the takes here, lots of humble pie to eat, starting with myself. I was always high on Harper and Castle, yet I was still willing to move them both for Flagg. After watching Harper in the league, I think he's a future all NBA caliber guard and the gap with Flagg isn't anywhere near what I once thought. Still think Flagg is the best prospect in the class, but he's not a Castle away from Harper (or VJ Edgecombe).

I think my take had aged very well (as usual).

[Texas Chuck]

5 games onto their careers and guys in here taking victory laps....

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[wemby]

5 games onto their careers and guys in here taking victory laps....

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What then is left for those who were slamming doors shut with ZERO games of evidence, right?

Bottom line, 5 games is enough to get a glimpse of Harper and VJ's talent, and for Flagg to be that far ahead as some thought here, he'd have to be Wemby like, and that's a tall order for anyone.

[jbk1234]

5 games onto their careers and guys in here taking victory laps....

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What then is left for those who were slamming doors shut with ZERO games of evidence, right?

Bottom line, 5 games is enough to get a glimpse of Harper and VJ's talent, and for Flagg to be that far ahead as some thought here, he'd have to be Wemby like, and that's a tall order for anyone.

He'd have to be Wemby like after 5 games? This really isn't how it works.

[wemby]

5 games onto their careers and guys in here taking victory laps....

Sent from my SM-A156U using RealGM mobile app

What then is left for those who were slamming doors shut with ZERO games of evidence, right?

Bottom line, 5 games is enough to get a glimpse of Harper and VJ's talent, and for Flagg to be that far ahead as some thought here, he'd have to be Wemby like, and that's a tall order for anyone.

He'd have to be Wemby like after 5 games? This really isn't how it works.

I didn't say that, I said that after what I've seen from Harper and VJ I'm pretty confident they'll be good enough to the point the gap between Flagg and either of them won't be a Castle away. But if you're really set on finding bold takes with little evidence to support them, you're bound to find at least a dozen bolder than mine in this thread, easily. Just go read the previous pages.

[One_and_Done]

It's early, but clearly the scales have started to shift, to the point that demanding even Castle to get Harper now seems absurd.

As I said earlier in the thread, these things can change fast. 5 games in and it looks crazy to insist there was an 'insurmountable gap' between Flagg & Harper.

[Mavrelous]

Yawn, still an emphatic no on the OP.

[One_and_Done]

Yawn, still an emphatic no on the OP.

Would the Spurs even be willing to move Harper & Castle for Flagg at this point? Both of them have looked better than him. I don't necessarily expect that to continue, but I'm not at all convinced Flagg has more trade value than those 2 guys combined.

Harper looks like he'll be a star guard in due course, and Castle has looked as good as you could have realistically have hoped for year 2.

Let's grant the premise that Flagg improves and becomes a Tatum like player. Is that necessarily a better archetype to build around than the Cade/Harden type that Harper is looking like? I'm not at all sure of that.

I also think Flagg has a long way to go to look like Tatum. One of the things analysts like Nate Duncan dinged Flagg for heading into the draft was whether he had star offensive power. Against the best defenses could he create the separation, etc, to score efficiently? That remains to be seen. Tatum has a combination of moves and athleticism that he does it with. Not clear that Flagg has that, and if he doesn't he's more like an all-star role player and connector piece. That's still hugely valuable, but it's not the 'generational talent' people talked about.

[jayjaysee]

I don’t really have much of an opinion based off 5 games….but I’ll make some hot takes - Flagg isn’t a point guard and playing with this version of Wemby must be really nice.

[Texas Chuck]

5 games onto their careers and guys in here taking victory laps....

Sent from my SM-A156U using RealGM mobile app

What then is left for those who were slamming doors shut with ZERO games of evidence, right?

Bottom line, 5 games is enough to get a glimpse of Harper and VJ's talent, and for Flagg to be that far ahead as some thought here, he'd have to be Wemby like, and that's a tall order for anyone.

You will find my comments measured. And those who felt strongly the other way didn't bump the thread to gloat minutes into their careers so no need to say something to them

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[wemby]

You will find my comments measured. And those who felt strongly the other way didn't bump the thread to gloat minutes into their careers so no need to say something to them

True, but your comments get lost amidst the sea of horrendous Castle/Harper slander. People talked about Harper as if he were trash and anyone who cares to watch his first few games can easily tell how talented he is, and the same goes for VJ. These 2 are extremely talented rookies worthy of #1 in a lot of other classes, regardless of Flagg. I thought it was interesting to revisit, not so much because of Flagg's play (he's 18 and Mavs aren't built to showcase his strengths, and I never went into that territory with him like most do with Spurs players) but how good the other two have been, which was basically the point made here.

[tmorgan]

Harper played one great game against Brooklyn and four decent ones otherwise.

These five game sample victory laps are ridiculous. And absolutely no one said Harper was “trash”, that’s also ridiculous.

I’m not going to come back to this if he has a tough week or two, because I know how this actually works. Enjoy Wemby’s ascension to best player in the league and chill out a bit, wemby.

[Daddy 801]

I wouldn't read too much into Dallas using Flagg incorrectly so far and any player who gets to play next to the potential GOAT and most freakish basketball player we have ever seen. Especially after 5 games.

Harper always looked amazing. And I didn’t see anyone who said otherwise so I am a bit surprised some are saying people weren’t high on him. Weird?

I can’t imagine what Flagg would look like next to Wemby and not having to play the weird style Dallas is so far playing. Only watched 1 complete game of Dallas and some highlights…but they seem to be using him incorrectly to say it lightly.

[One_and_Done]

I wouldn't read too much into Dallas using Flagg incorrectly so far and any player who gets to play next to the potential GOAT and most freakish basketball player we have ever seen. Especially after 5 games.

Harper always looked amazing. And I didn’t see anyone who said otherwise so I am a bit surprised some are saying people weren’t high on him. Weird?

I can’t imagine what Flagg would look like next to Wemby and not having to play the weird style Dallas is so far playing. Only watched 1 complete game of Dallas and some highlights…but they seem to be using him incorrectly to say it lightly.

People were saying there was an 'insurmountable gap" between Flagg and Harper, and that Castle was 'nowhere near enough' for the Spurs to trade up to #1. It's early, but 6 games in that looks pretty preposterous.

[Daddy 801]

I wouldn't read too much into Dallas using Flagg incorrectly so far and any player who gets to play next to the potential GOAT and most freakish basketball player we have ever seen. Especially after 5 games.

Harper always looked amazing. And I didn’t see anyone who said otherwise so I am a bit surprised some are saying people weren’t high on him. Weird?

I can’t imagine what Flagg would look like next to Wemby and not having to play the weird style Dallas is so far playing. Only watched 1 complete game of Dallas and some highlights…but they seem to be using him incorrectly to say it lightly.

People were saying there was an 'insurmountable gap" between Flagg and Harper, and that Castle was 'nowhere near enough' for the Spurs to trade up to #1. It's early, but 6 games in that looks pretty preposterous.

I wouldn’t have made that trade. I would have seriously thought about it as it’s enticing. Probably would have been more enticed with Harper and the 2026 pick for Flagg.

I do think there is a lot to who a player plays next to and how a team/coach uses him. I am 100% confident Flagg would have better numbers if he was playing on the Spurs. So it’s still really hard to say Harper is better. Way too early for me to think that. Honestly I don’t think we will really know until the end of year three. The trajectory/timeline of guards versus wings/forwards is so different. Edgecomb looks like the second coming of Rose and Wade right now. And he easily could win ROTY and in three years time both Harper and Flagg could be ahead of him in value. Ace looks like a bum for that matter but he’s been sick so I’m not putting too much stock into his play as of yet.

It’s really early. But one thing is certain. The Spurs don’t need to gamble on a 2 for 1 situation. They have the greatest cushion in the world with Wemby. They should win 4 of the next 10 championships at a minimum without much effort IMO. It will be a let down if they don’t IMO. And Wemby could have Flagg or Harper next to him and I don’t think that changes the equation very much.

[One_and_Done]

If anything, guards are supposed to take longer to develop. Harper is lucky to be next to Wemby of course, but he's also coming off the bench, on a slow pace team. If Harper was on a bad team, who just fed him minutes and shots (like Flagg), then he'd be posting much bigger numbers and would be the runaway ROY favourite.

[BK_2020]

I don't know how you look at Flagg's first games and think his floor is Jayson Tatum.

[One_and_Done]

I don't know how you look at Flagg's first games and think his floor is Jayson Tatum.

He'd be incredibly fortunate to end up as good as Tatum.

[jayjaysee]

I don’t know how we look at a power forward being forced to play point guard for four games, but make an excuse for your teams guard who has played 73 minutes (+38.7) with the early MVP/DPOY/unreal Wemby..

(And I never thought Flagg was generational, and still don’t)

[tcheco]

Spurs fans doing their best to be the most hated fan base in here, 5 games into the season in wembys rookie season people were talking about him being nowhere as good as the hype, Spurs fans were mad, now they are here making ourselves look like gloating trolls. Pop would be disappointed.