Free Noa.

[DuckIII]

I definitely see high potential on defense, though maybe not to the same extent as you, but I'm just worried he'll basically end up a taller Javonte Green on offense.

All fair points and agree. The one thing I'd say is I consider this bar to essentially be laying on the floor. Javonte Green is probably the least skilled non-big man in the NBA. He can't dribble it in traffic at all. He's a bad shooter. He has one hand. I love him precisely because he carved a path in the NBA on athleticism and boundless energy despite having, by NBA standards, absolutely atrocious skills for a wing.

Point being, I do not share your concern that he could be a Javonte level offensive player. Javonte is about as 4 v. 5 as you can get.

[DuckIII]

Its a provable fact, but does it have any significance to you after 4 games? Or even more particularly, those precise 4 games?

I wasn't expecting him to play. As I can be guilty of, this appears to be one of those times I hastily assumed most everyone saw it the way I did.

To me this seems to be a conversation at maybe game 20? 30? I don't mean him not playing at all. Zero minutes. If we are 20 games in and he's literally never played, that's a conversation. But I mean being concerned with his playing time in general. To me we need to be 20-30 games in and see how this team is performing and how the guys in front of him are faring. There's a larger context here, at least so far.

We've sort of tossed out the expectations already. If we keep it up - I don't think we will, but if we do - then I can see plenty of justifications for Noa having not played much or regularly even 30 games in.

I'm not sure how to express what it means, but it means something to me. It's a bit of frustration with the Bulls approach being too conservative combined with some thought that it reflects something about what Noa is showing in practice. I don't think it definitively means anything, and I'm not panicked about it, but it's like a little nagging thing that just feels bad to me without any real specific reason.

Sort of like my gut take is "this isn't good" even though I rationally feel "this is irrelevant", but a lot of times I also feel like my gut has some trustworthiness in it even when I an logically work through something.

Not sure if that makes any sense.

Is it possible that you believe so strongly that the Bulls should have made a deal with the Pelicans that it impacts your ability to rely more on objectivity than gut?

It would to me. Certainly one of the reasons I'm ho-hum about the Pelicans trade is because I wanted Noa, specifically, added to what this team is trying to do. If we had done what Dumars did, and opted for Queen, I'd be more than a little pissed right now. I'd probably be pretty much insufferable given how much baggage I still carry over AK's past debacles.

[GoBlue72391]

I definitely see high potential on defense, though maybe not to the same extent as you, but I'm just worried he'll basically end up a taller Javonte Green on offense.

All fair points and agree. The one thing I'd say is I consider this bar to essentially be laying on the floor. Javonte Green is probably the least skilled non-big man in the NBA. He can't dribble it in traffic at all. He's a bad shooter. He has one hand. I love him precisely because he carved a path in the NBA on athleticism and boundless energy despite having, by NBA standards, absolutely atrocious skills for a wing.

Point being, I do not share your concern that he could be a Javonte level offensive player. Javonte is about as 4 v. 5 as you can get.

I forgot to mention, I also assume Essengue will develop a decent 3 and I'm picturing him spotting up in the corners on offense and occasionally working from the dunker spot with a lot of cutting.

I'm not envisioning much on ball creation, but I can see him attacking closeouts with straight line drives and I can see him being one of those bigger guys who can go coast to coast off a defensive rebound.

[jnrjr79]

Just saw on Twitter - Noa is now headed for a stint with Windy City.

[GoBlue72391]

Just saw on Twitter - Noa is now headed for a stint with Windy City.

Their first game isn't until November 8th, so I assume this is one of those short stints where he practices with the G League team then immediately gets sent back to the main roster.

[dougthonus]

Is it possible that you believe so strongly that the Bulls should have made a deal with the Pelicans that it impacts your ability to rely more on objectivity than gut?

I mean I definitely think they should have made that deal, but I don't really think it's relevant to my feelings about Noa because he was my favorite pick on the board too. I'm not quite as high on him as you, but I do like him as a prospect.

I think my feeling about this is more annoyance at the coaching staff for not playing him than concerns over Noa not being good because of it. Again, I also generally believe my feeling is irrational and know it's irrational which is also why I'm not trying to be up in arms about it.

There's just this feeling like "dude, literally every other rookie 1st rounder has played" and it annoys me. I rationally know it doesn't matter, like if he played 10 minutes it would make no practical difference, but still .... dude, come on man, give him the 10 minutes

[DuckIII]

Just saw on Twitter - Noa is now headed for a stint with Windy City.

Good. This came up this summer during SL. I think most people wanted to see him get run there during homestands when he can. At least in the first half of the season depending on his role with the big boys. Good call.

[DuckIII]

Just saw on Twitter - Noa is now headed for a stint with Windy City.

Their first game isn't until November 8th, so I assume this is one of those short stints where he practices with the G League team then immediately gets sent back to the main roster.

Oh. So this probably is him going to their practices where he gets to be The Man and they all push and challenge him since he doesn't get that at regular practices. Also makes sense. All the different types of looks and experiences he can get against live competition are a plus.

[dougthonus]

Just saw on Twitter - Noa is now headed for a stint with Windy City.

Good. This came up this summer during SL. I think most people wanted to see him get run there during homestands when he can. At least in the first half of the season depending on his role with the big boys. Good call.

This is kind of weird to me, unless I'm missing something the Windy City Bulls don't play until Nov 8, why not have him on the main roster?

[DuckIII]

Just saw on Twitter - Noa is now headed for a stint with Windy City.

Good. This came up this summer during SL. I think most people wanted to see him get run there during homestands when he can. At least in the first half of the season depending on his role with the big boys. Good call.

This is kind of weird to me, unless I'm missing something the Windy City Bulls don't play until Nov 8, why not have him on the main roster?

I don't know. I assumed it was to play games. I've speculated its to give him some bigger responsibility at some practice sessions. I don't interpret it to mean he's being sent down to practice with them and not with the Bulls. I guess we'll see.

[dougthonus]

Good. This came up this summer during SL. I think most people wanted to see him get run there during homestands when he can. At least in the first half of the season depending on his role with the big boys. Good call.

This is kind of weird to me, unless I'm missing something the Windy City Bulls don't play until Nov 8, why not have him on the main roster?

I don't know. I assumed it was to play games. I've speculated its to give him some bigger responsibility at some practice sessions. I don't interpret it to mean he's being sent down to practice with them and not with the Bulls. I guess we'll see.

Yeah, I have no idea, you also can't read into any of these because a guy often gets sent down and called up inside 48 hours anyway. Like they might send him down to do a single practice session with a coach on one topic or might have one specific drill they're doing at WCB in practice they want him to do.

I think it totally makes sense to get him some game action with WCB if he's not going to be playing anyway, but sending him down to practice is a little odd on the surface, but I'm sure there's some reason for it that makes sense.

[Chi town]

I don’t think Noa will see the floor outside mop up mins until at least game 20.

We are that deep and I think JP’s athleticism will play. He looks more aggressive and stronger. If his 3 ball goes in he could be in the rotation even after Collins comes back.

Phillips almost never utilizes his athleticism and he's barely in the rotation as it is. He's a very low impact player.

I'd much rather give Essengue any minutes that are going to Phillips or Terry. I don't understand Billy's logic in that regard.

Me too. I trust Billy though. He made the right calls last year with Buz who he didn’t think was ready.

[Chi town]

We need to decide if we are actually invested in Dalen Terry and Julian Phillips' future here. If not, we might as well give those 6-10 mins to Essengue. If Okoro keeps **** the bed, then that's another 20-25 mins up for grabs --- although we have to factor in Coby as well.

I don't think Essengue is anything special as a prospect; solid athleticism, decent size/length, he's clearly lacking in skills right now and he'll need to gain a lot of weight and strength. He's more of a lateral athlete than a vertical athlete.

I don't see star/superstar ceiling there, unless he improves his skills considerably, which is possible but probably not likely. But even so, he should be getting all of Terry's/Phillips' minutes because they have no future here while Essengue could become a good role player/solid starter/key bench player.

Terry and Phillips seem destined for fringe roster status, so I don't see the point in giving them minutes over Essengue.

I do think Essengue is a special prospect, but I don't really disagree much with your analysis. That's because I consider him more of a "special specialist" project if that makes sense. I can explain it.

I look at Matas, I see a franchise player. You could see pretty quickly that he had all the ingredients to be a complete player and two-way stud. Height. Speed and quickness going north/south and laterally. Abnormally high vertical for his height. Quick twitch second jump ability. Tools for an advanced handle. Strong shot mechanics. Strong left and right hand. Obsessive mentality. He's damn near made in a laboratory (just not a French laboratory).

That's not Noa. He's not a franchise player. He's not going to be a two way stud who can get it done offensively whether he's on a running team or a half court team. He's not going to spend a lot of time operating with the ball in the half court, making choices for the team. I see a guy with an offensive ceiling as complimentary off ball cutter/shooter with a reliable, uncomplicated handle who can rim run.

But I also see a guy with the potential to be a maniac on defense. Half court, full court, actually capable of guarding every position (which is one of basketball's biggest horse crap cliches because its virtually never true) like a taller Scottie Pippen. Bear in mind I'm talking ceilings here. This isn't my prediction, don't go to Vegas, just why I'm incredibly excited about him as a player if it works out.

EDIT: Wait, I have a different fictional analogy to blunt the impact of invoking Pippen. Taller, much more athletic Luol Deng with a 3 (because everyone can learn to shoot open 3s now and Noa will be one of them).

You add a guy like that to Matas and Giddey, and Noa doesn't have to individually be a superstar player to have an incredibly large impact on winning basketball games. I don't think his potential is individual superstar. I think his potential is perfect ingredient.

Perfect ingredient. Well said.

I see him as a defensive cheat code that makes the offense better because of easy buckets from stocks. Also think his length with Buz will be crazy to score against and help our 3pt D even more.

I think where Noa will have the most impact is as a stretch 5 much like Chet when he’s fully developed but in a backup role. See him as a starting 4 much like Shawn Marion filling the stat sheet.

Believe in his IQ and his mentality just like I do with Buz.

[cocktailswith_2short]

His freedom is granted to the g league for reps.

[Indomitable]

Just saw on Twitter - Noa is now headed for a stint with Windy City.

Good. This came up this summer during SL. I think most people wanted to see him get run there during homestands when he can. At least in the first half of the season depending on his role with the big boys. Good call.

This is kind of weird to me, unless I'm missing something the Windy City Bulls don't play until Nov 8, why not have him on the main roster?

For the practice time. They have done this for guys returning from injury. During the season the team does not practice like the G leaguers. This about him getting active reps.

[Chi town]

Calling Noa’s first mins against Utah in a blowout in a couple weeks.

Then some burn against NOLA and Wiz.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Now I know what we were getting into when we first drafted Noa. He is 18. I knew there was no clear path for him to even get minutes on the roster. IT was just a long shot for him to be over Pat or even Julian for minutes. Billy likes stability.

Unfortunately, I think Noa is like 2 years away. Unless he has a growth spurt and ends up as a 7 footer next year or gets exponentially stronger like Giannis in year 2, I still see him in the G League.

We just have not done well on absolute projects. I look at Dalen Terry and Dalen is in year 4 and still can't crack the rotation. That is a failure no matter how you look at it.

I hope the same isn't for Noa. If I see some things from Noa in the G League then maybe I change my view. But for now, I think this will be a long process.

[GoBlue72391]

I get he's only 18, but I think it's being slightly overstated. He has some high level overseas professional experience under his belt.

18 is only a year younger than the one-and-dones who come out and contribute in the NBA right away.

Essengue probably will spend the majority of this and next season in the G League, but redshirting him for two years really takes away any value from having a young player on a cheap rookie contract. And he might only be a 9th or 10th man in years 3 and 4.

For an extremely raw guy who doesn't likely project to have star upside, is he really worth all these years and patience? For a guy who will most likely end up as a back end starter or solid bench player? Would it have been smarter to take a guy with similar, if slightly lesser, upside who is more NBA ready? Or explored trades that were established to have been discussed?

These years long projects only really make sense when they have star upside IMO. I feel like this would be a worthy wait for a late 1st or 2nd round pick, but not as much for a lottery pick.

I'm not giving up on him or anything, but I'm not seeing the long-term commitment vs the reward when it's all said and done.

[GoBlue72391]

To expand on my previous post, up until 20 years ago, 18 year olds were drafted out of high school quite frequently, and the majority of them got some time at the NBA level as rookies. Many of them got heavy minutes. Sure, some of them were basically redshirted, but from my recollection those were mostly late 1sts and 2nd round picks like Dorell Wright and Lou Williams.

Over the last two drafts where HS players were eligible, the bust rate was actually surprisingly low:

Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Monta Ellis, Lou Williams, Dorell Wright, Sebastian Telfair, eventually Gerald Green after a stint overseas, Martell Webster, CJ Miles, Andrew Bynum, Andray Blatche, Amir Johnson, Shaun Livingston, Al Jefferson, JR Smith, etc.

Those guys didn't have pro experience to fall back on like Essengue, they went from facing high schoolers to NBA players with no buffer. The G League wasn't as prominent back then, either.

All those guys became decent role players at minimum, and all but a few of them got rotation minutes as 18 year old rookies out of HS. So there is such a thing as being overly conservative with young players.

I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing a young guy like Essengue out there in place of Phillips or Terry, or on nights when Jalen isn't playing well.

[Ice Man]

I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing a young guy like Essengue out there in place of Phillips or Terry, or on nights when Jalen isn't playing well.

Yep. Even though I'm firmly in the camp of "let the rooks earn their minutes," I am willing to be reasonable. If Noa isn't killing it in practice, which presumably he is not (otherwise he would be getting game time), then sure, sit him behind the actual NBA players until he figures it out. But Jalen and Phillips? Come on now. Those are "empty the bench" guys without a future. Why sit Noa behind them, even if he does play a different position?