Alex Sarr

[nate33]

But you gotta admit he has improved tremendously on that front this season. He has already gone toe-to-toe with Anthony Davis and Embiid this season and held his own.

I have given Sarr plenty of flowers for his play this year. In fact i was mentioning positive signs way back in summer league when he clearly made it a point of emphasis to score more going towards the rim.

However the center spot is more important on defense than on offense. With Sarr at the 4, a rim protecting center and Kyshawn at the 3 we would have a very strong interior D. Sarr shoots 3s well enough to play the 4, something Mobley has been reluctant to do.

I don't care at all that he would have more offensive mismatches at the 5. Not in the slighest. I don't think offense will be our problem going forward. Kyshawn has broken out in a major way on offense. We just drafted Tre who i see as Klay with more juice off the dribble. We may well get a high level scorer in the draft and we have Riley off the bench.

I simply dont see Sarr as the type of defensive anchor at C needed to be a contender.

I think you are discounting the extent to which having a non floor spreader at the 5 will impact the offensive effectiveness. There is a ripple effect if you move Sarr to the 4. Then Kyshawn, who is a more dynamic and creative offensive player than a typical 4, has to move down to 3 where he suddenly doesn't look head-and-shoulders his counterpart. And our 3 (Middleton? Bilal?) moves down to 2 where we suddenly have less ball handling and perimeter shooting. And or 2 (Tre?) moves to 1, or to the bench if we draft Peterson. Which means our most dynamic 3-point shooter is no longer starting.

[tontoz]

But you gotta admit he has improved tremendously on that front this season. He has already gone toe-to-toe with Anthony Davis and Embiid this season and held his own.

I have given Sarr plenty of flowers for his play this year. In fact i was mentioning positive signs way back in summer league when he clearly made it a point of emphasis to score more going towards the rim.

However the center spot is more important on defense than on offense. With Sarr at the 4, a rim protecting center and Kyshawn at the 3 we would have a very strong interior D. Sarr shoots 3s well enough to play the 4, something Mobley has been reluctant to do.

I don't care at all that he would have more offensive mismatches at the 5. Not in the slighest. I don't think offense will be our problem going forward. Kyshawn has broken out in a major way on offense. We just drafted Tre who i see as Klay with more juice off the dribble. We may well get a high level scorer in the draft and we have Riley off the bench.

I simply dont see Sarr as the type of defensive anchor at C needed to be a contender.

I think you are discounting the extent to which having a non floor spreader at the 5 will impact the offensive effectiveness. There is a ripple effect if you move Sarr to the 4. Then Kyshawn, who is a more dynamic and creative offensive player than a typical 4, has to move down to 3 where he suddenly doesn't look head-and-shoulders his counterpart. And our 3 (Middleton? Bilal?) moves down to 2 where we suddenly have less ball handling and perimeter shooting. And or 2 (Tre?) moves to 1, or to the bench if we draft Peterson. Which means our most dynamic 3-point shooter is no longer starting.

First of all i am talking about next year and going forward. This year is just a tank year. Middleton will be gone next year.

Tre would always be a 2. No positional versatility with him. Kyshawn can play the 3 or 4 on both ends with no problem. Riley or whoever would be the 1.

Then you have Sarr at the 4 who can shoot 3s and also score inside. That is a lot of offense with very good spacing. I haven't seen anything from Bilal that would lead me to pencil him in as a long term starter. A non floor spreader hurts a lot more when it's a wing as opposed to a 5.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Hartenstein is 7'1, 270lbs, physical, and moves well... Hes a problem for most guys

Sarr is always going to get bullied by guys like Hartenstein which is why i don't see him as a full time C. I am sure OKC felt the same about Chet which is why they brought in Hartenstein.

Sure Sarr can get stronger and put on some weight but i don't think he is really capable of having a Giannis like transformation.

Honest question: Is there an example of someone with Sarr's frame and length who actually bulked up significantly? I can't think of one...

Moses Malone?
Kevin Garnett?
Giannis Antetokounmpo?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Sarr is always going to get bullied by guys like Hartenstein which is why i don't see him as a full time C. I am sure OKC felt the same about Chet which is why they brought in Hartenstein.

Sure Sarr can get stronger and put on some weight but i don't think he is really capable of having a Giannis like transformation.

Honest question: Is there an example of someone with Sarr's frame and length who actually bulked up significantly? I can't think of one...

Many. Most centers start out strong beans and thicken late. Just remember players used to stay 3-4 years in school. Sarr would be a sophomore this year. Check pics of Olajuwon as an underclassman same thin arms and slim shoulders except that Hakeem had thicker thighs.

Him, too. He filled out as did Patrick Ewing.

I could easily see Alex putting on another 15 pounds.

[nate33]

First of all i am talking about next year and going forward. This year is just a tank year. Middleton will be gone next year.

Tre would always be a 2. No positional versatility with him. Kyshawn can play the 3 or 4 on both ends with no problem. Riley or whoever would be the 1.

Then you have Sarr at the 4 who can shoot 3s and also score inside. That is a lot of offense with very good spacing. I haven't seen anything from Bilal that would lead me to pencil him in as a long term starter. A non floor spreader hurts a lot more when it's a wing as opposed to a 5.

We've talked about this enough, I guess.

I respectfully disagree. I think we are better with Sarr at the 5 for the most part, and to have the option of playing him some minutes at the 4 against the handful of opponents who play really big frontcourts. I think right now, Sarr is showing that he is a game changing defender. When he is on the floor, the team already measures out pretty well in all interior defense metrics. And that's with Sarr being just 20 years old. With 2 more years of experience and another 15 pounds of strength, that will only get better.

[tontoz]

First of all i am talking about next year and going forward. This year is just a tank year. Middleton will be gone next year.

Tre would always be a 2. No positional versatility with him. Kyshawn can play the 3 or 4 on both ends with no problem. Riley or whoever would be the 1.

Then you have Sarr at the 4 who can shoot 3s and also score inside. That is a lot of offense with very good spacing. I haven't seen anything from Bilal that would lead me to pencil him in as a long term starter. A non floor spreader hurts a lot more when it's a wing as opposed to a 5.

We've talked about this enough, I guess.

I respectfully disagree. I think we are better with Sarr at the 5 for the most part, and to have the option of playing him some minutes at the 4 against the handful of opponents who play really big frontcourts. I think right now, Sarr is showing that he is a game changing defender. When he is on the floor, the team already measures out pretty well in all interior defense metrics. And that's with Sarr being just 20 years old. With 2 more years of experience and another 15 pounds of strength, that will only get better.

I love how we just put all this extra weight on guys. Not eveyone gains weight and strength to the same degree. Some guys put on a lot some dont.

Sarr is not a tough, physical player. He can certainly become less soft over time but playing center full time is rough.

I've said many times i love what I've seen from Sarr lately but i dont want to see him spend the majority of his time at c now or at any time in the future. I think that will be a weakness that a good team will expoit in the playoffs.

[nate33]

I've said many times i love what I've seen from Sarr lately but i dont want to see him spend the majority of his time at c now or at any time in the future. I think that will be a weakness that a good team will expoit in the playoffs.

I think you have it backwards. The guys that get exploited in the playoffs are the unskilled goon centers. To advance in the playoffs, you need to be a truly elite defensive big like Gobert, or you need a dynamic skillset including perimeter touch or passing. Guys like Jokic, AD, Gobert, Draymond, KAT, Turner, Horford and Porzingis advance in the playoffs. Guys like Edey, Jaxson Hayes, Duren and Wendell Carter Jr lose. Heck even really good but relatively unskilled centers like Jarrett Allen and Zubac disappoint in the playoffs. Even OKC had to bench Hartenstein in the final 2 rounds to get the Finals and win the title. And don't get me started about guys like Mark Williams, Poeltl, Clingan and Capella, who rarely even win enough regular season games to make the playoffs.

If you can go find me another Jokic, AD or KAT to start at center, then sure, maybe I'd consider playing Sarr at PF. But chances are, the center you add to play alongside Sarr is going to be somebody like Mitchell Robinson or Goga Bitadze. And in that scenario, we are better off starting Sarr at center for the most part and playing the big goon only in certain favorable matchups.

[AFM]

Does it really matter what position you list him at? Sarr to me is a C since he causes a mismatch at the position. And he can guard most Cs. You could also play him at PF--it depends on the personnel. There's nobody currently on the roster that would push him to PF but if we ever signed a more traditional C you could easily slide him to PF in a lot of lineups.

[tontoz]

OKC brought in Hartenstein because they knew Chet as a full time C wasn't going to work. He started 20 of their 23 games in the playoffs. Without him they don't win a ring. Obviously Chet at C can work in certain matchups but full time was too much for him.

I seriously doubt Zubac or Allen are the reason their teams have disappointed in the playoffs. Those teams have other issues. It takes more than just a good C to advance in the playoffs. I would happily take either one.

Jackson Hayes? He just sucks.

Just because a center has enough size to defend the position doesn't mean they have to be unskilled. A center can be big and skilled, or big and mobile. They don't have to be "goons".

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I've said many times i love what I've seen from Sarr lately but i dont want to see him spend the majority of his time at c now or at any time in the future. I think that will be a weakness that a good team will expoit in the playoffs.

I think you have it backwards. The guys that get exploited in the playoffs are the unskilled goon centers. To advance in the playoffs, you need to be a truly elite defensive big like Gobert, or you need a dynamic skillset including perimeter touch or passing. Guys like Jokic, AD, Gobert, Draymond, KAT, Turner, Horford and Porzingis advance in the playoffs. Guys like Edey, Jaxson Hayes, Duren and Wendell Carter Jr lose. Heck even really good but relatively unskilled centers like Jarrett Allen and Zubac disappoint in the playoffs. Even OKC had to bench Hartenstein in the final 2 rounds to get the Finals and win the title. And don't get me started about guys like Mark Williams, Poeltl, Clingan and Capella, who rarely even win enough regular season games to make the playoffs.

If you can go find me another Jokic, AD or KAT to start at center, then sure, maybe I'd consider playing Sarr at PF. But chances are, the center you add to play alongside Sarr is going to be somebody like Mitchell Robinson or Goga Bitadze. And in that scenario, we are better off starting Sarr at center for the most part and playing the big goon only in certain favorable matchups.

Jarrett Allen's Cavaliers lost to the Celtics in the 2023-2024 playoffs 4-1 as Allen missed the whole series injured.

Boston won it all.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

OKC brought in Hartenstein because they knew Chet as a full time C wasn't going to work. He started 20 of their 23 games in the playoffs. Without him they don't win a ring. Obviously Chet at C can work in certain matchups but full time was too much for him.

I seriously doubt Zubac or Allen are the reason their teams have disappointed in the playoffs. Those teams have other issues. It takes more than just a good C to advance in the playoffs. I would happily take either one.

Jackson Hayes? He just sucks.

Just because a center has enough size to defend the position doesn't mean they have to be unskilled. A center can be big and skilled, or big and mobile. They don't have to be "goons".

Zubac and Allen are not. I totally disagree with nate's assessment on that.

[tontoz]

Zubac and Allen are not. I totally disagree with nate's assessment on that.

Having Sarr and a guy like Zubac/Allen would allow us to match up with any team. We can play big or small but I think our default position should be to go big.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Zubac and Allen are not. I totally disagree with nate's assessment on that.

Having Sarr and a guy like Zubac/Allen would allow us to match up with any team. We can play big or small but I think our default position should be to go big.

Jarrett Allen would be a fine fit next to Sarr. He moves well and does have to stay in the post. He's not a plodder. He and Mobley dominate. So would he and Alex.

I have a harder time envisioning Zubac with Sarr. Ivica is a roller who rebounds. He doesn't have the defensive chops that Allen has.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If I were Wizards GM, I would go after proven PF/C players who would fit next to Alex.

Here's one idea:

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8878839

[DCZards]

I love how we just put all this extra weight on guys. Not eveyone gains weight and strength to the same degree. Some guys put on a lot some dont.

Yes, it’s almost impossible to tell how much weight a person will put on. But it’s a safe bet that a 20 yr old pro athlete will put on a decent amount of weight and muscle, especially given that he’ll be equipped with a training and nutrition regiment designed to do just that.

Sarr is the type of big that should excel in the modern NBA. I like the idea of starting him at C with a big C available to occasionally share the court with him.

[tontoz]

Zubac and Allen are not. I totally disagree with nate's assessment on that.

Having Sarr and a guy like Zubac/Allen would allow us to match up with any team. We can play big or small but I think our default position should be to go big.

Jarrett Allen would be a fine fit next to Sarr. He moves well and does have to stay in the post. He's not a plodder. He and Mobley dominate. So would he and Alex.

I have a harder time envisioning Zubac with Sarr. Ivica is a roller who rebounds. He doesn't have the defensive chops that Allen has.

Not sure about that. Zubac has defended Jokic better than anyone I've ever seen. He's a big reason the clippers were able to take the nuggets to 7 games in the playoffs. Jokic couldn't get all the easy baskets inside he usually gets.

[nate33]

Just because a center has enough size to defend the position doesn't mean they have to be unskilled. A center can be big and skilled, or big and mobile. They don't have to be "goons".

Well, yes. The problem is, really big centers who are also skilled enough and/or mobile enough to stay on the floor in the playoffs are extremely rare, and costly. If you can find one of those guys, and there's maybe 8-10 in the entire league, then sure, add him to the roster and play Sarr more at PF. But even then, there will be difficulties. A team only has so many resources (picks and cap room) to spend at every position. And as long as we already have Sarr, I'd rather spend those resources to fill other needs with Sarr playing at center (plus a low-cost part-time goon center to complement him in certain matchups).

If you pay your star perimeter player max money, and also pay Sarr max or near-max money, and you go find an elite center who costs max or near-max money, you won't have enough money to fill out the perimeter positions. I'm saying, once we have your superstar scorer and Sarr as a (hopefully) star-caliber PF/C, our money is better spent on good wings before we spend it on another high-cost center.

[tontoz]

Just because a center has enough size to defend the position doesn't mean they have to be unskilled. A center can be big and skilled, or big and mobile. They don't have to be "goons".

Well, yes. The problem is, really big centers who are also skilled enough and/or mobile enough to stay on the floor in the playoffs are extremely rare, and costly. If you can find one of those guys, and there's maybe 8-10 in the entire league, then sure, add him to the roster and play Sarr more at PF. But even then, there will be difficulties. A team only has so many resources (picks and cap room) to spend at every position. And as long as we already have Sarr, I'd rather spend those resources to fill other needs with Sarr playing at center (plus a low-cost part-time goon center to complement him in certain matchups).

If you pay your star perimeter player max money, and also pay Sarr max or near-max money, and you go find an elite center who costs max or near-max money, you won't have enough money to fill out the perimeter positions. I'm saying, once we have your superstar scorer and Sarr as a (hopefully) star-caliber PF/C, our money is better spent on good wings before we spend it on another high-cost center.

I've said many times that it isn't hard to find a center with the size to defend the position. Utah drafted Kessler at 22. Hornets drafted Kalkbrenner at 34 (obviously not sure how good he is). OKC got Hartenstein on a reasonable deal. Ditto the Raps with Poetle.

How many quality centers have been drafted outside the top 10? We could have drafted Ware instead of Bub. We don't need to spend big money on a C.

I think your entire premise about a center getting played off the floor is moot because if the other team does that it plays into our hands. If they want to play small which allows us to play Sarr at C comfortably that is a win for us.

Do they really want to let us play Sarr at the 5 and Kyshawn at the 4? If so bring it on.

[doclinkin]

Does it really matter what position you list him at? Sarr to me is a C since he causes a mismatch at the position. And he can guard most Cs. You could also play him at PF--it depends on the personnel. There's nobody currently on the roster that would push him to PF but if we ever signed a more traditional C you could easily slide him to PF in a lot of lineups.

I don’t really care what designation you give Sarr, so long as he has the right help around him. To my way of thinking that’s a strong 4/5 who plays good positional defense on the interior. Rebounds at a high level. And has a little range to his game as well.

Sarr defends the perimeter so well that I want the option of leaving him out there as necessary. He passes and handles well enough that I envision something interesting if he’s on court with a big inside finisher. I’d like to see him trading back and forth with a big who also is a willing shooter from range.

This is why I’m bullish on Boozer if the draft shakes out that way. Even I don’t think I’d take him at #1. But if we happen to be in a spot to take him as the BPA I’m grinning. I can see the Venn diagram of what each and both do well or not and when I’m scribbling on a napkin the play style designs itself. All that’s required for it to really hum is each of them to get a half notch more reliable at shooting jumpers.

I even agree with scouts who suggest that Boozers chief advantage is that he grew big early so he is precocious in veteran interior play. But will not have the same physical advantage at the next level. Nor upside.

Upside we got elsewhere. What we need is leadership. Boozer as a young dog already does things I’ve only seen the veteran Brook Lopez do. (And Draymond of course. As tired as it is to trot him out as an example). Canny tough play that shows up in the +/- column more than the counting stats. Positional defense that deters entry. Anticipation of the play. The defensive big man equivalent of PG play where you know what’s going to happen before the play transpires. And get there first to snuff it.

Sarr is solid as a switchable big and Mobile shot blocker. But if you’re on the perimeter you’re not behind the play and calling out switches etc. You can’t see misdirection and back door plays with your head turned. Also in temperament, Sarr is not a vocal defensive captain.

I dunno. I see something there. I know I’ve been calling for the rise of the skilled Big and we’re starting to see it. I just think there’s another level to it when you have guys who are not only playable on the perimeter (ok Boozer is not) but can trade off roles at 4/5 as needed. Sarrs versatility magnifies Boozers strengths while shading for his (minor) shortfalls. Doubling up on Passing. IQ. Face up skill. While adding toughness rebounding tough play. Efficient smart and strong.

I’m happy with Peterson Et al. But if this comes to pass I can see this team being a tough defensive puzzle to solve in the post season. And if they both start hitting 3pt shots whoo boy.

[dobrojim]

Hartenstein is 7'1, 270lbs, physical, and moves well... Hes a problem for most guys

Sarr is always going to get bullied by guys like Hartenstein which is why i don't see him as a full time C. I am sure OKC felt the same about Chet which is why they brought in Hartenstein.

Sure Sarr can get stronger and put on some weight but i don't think he is really capable of having a Giannis like transformation.

Honest question: Is there an example of someone with Sarr's frame and length who actually bulked up significantly? I can't think of one...

Off the top of my head, Bam?