Roster is a mess - missed draft picks are part of reason

[nikster]

Just look at what the Spurs did....Post Kawhi they kept DeRozan/Aldridge around (2 Players who are all stars in their own right but you are not winning with these 2 as your lead players) They were a hovering 32-35 win team since 2019-2022 In that time span they have drafted players like Vassell, Joshua Primo, Sochan...Sochan and Vassell are ok players but they are not going to change your franchise right...

The year they blew that mid team up and traded everyone for draft picks and actually tried to be bad their franchise changed around for the better....(If you don't try you will always lose) They got lucky and got #1 pick and drafted Victor, Castle, Harper 3 years in a row with actually tanking and being a 22 win type of team for the last 3 years...

Now they are prolly going to win a championship in the future because of it and have an exciting core to cheer for and fun to watch.

Thats what you have to do in the NBA to get good results not half ass it and try to compete with a bad team. Never works.

Spurs had 2 years of first round exits followed by 3 years of 30 win teams and had nothing going to really show for it. That was an incrediblely easy decision for them to tank that season, then they get lucky to get the first overall pick, and are even luckier its in a draft with a prospect like Wemby who hasn't come around since LeBron

[Clutch0z24]

Just look at what the Spurs did....Post Kawhi they kept DeRozan/Aldridge around (2 Players who are all stars in their own right but you are not winning with these 2 as your lead players) They were a hovering 32-35 win team since 2019-2022 In that time span they have drafted players like Vassell, Joshua Primo, Sochan...Sochan and Vassell are ok players but they are not going to change your franchise right...

The year they blew that mid team up and traded everyone for draft picks and actually tried to be bad their franchise changed around for the better....(If you don't try you will always lose) They got lucky and got #1 pick and drafted Victor, Castle, Harper 3 years in a row with actually tanking and being a 22 win type of team for the last 3 years...

Now they are prolly going to win a championship in the future because of it and have an exciting core to cheer for and fun to watch.

Thats what you have to do in the NBA to get good results not half ass it and try to compete with a bad team. Never works.

I rather not use Spurs as an example of successful tanking because they got once-in-a-generation lucky in getting Wemby.

It wasn't all just luck....They wanted Wemby bad....They knew Wemby was once in a generational talent and they went for it....They actually tried their best to tank that year.....Its like saying "This guy just got lucky that the stock he invested in made him millions" But that guy who got "Lucky" Was invested in 100 + other stocks that failed before that....You get what you put effort in and the Raptors have been doing what the Spurs were doing with that DeRozan/Aldridge teams were doing for 5 years now.....It has not worked and won't continue to work and the faster you realize that and try something new you will continue to keep getting the same horrible results.

[YogurtProducer]

Just look at what the Spurs did....Post Kawhi they kept DeRozan/Aldridge around (2 Players who are all stars in their own right but you are not winning with these 2 as your lead players) They were a hovering 32-35 win team since 2019-2022 In that time span they have drafted players like Vassell, Joshua Primo, Sochan...Sochan and Vassell are ok players but they are not going to change your franchise right...

The year they blew that mid team up and traded everyone for draft picks and actually tried to be bad their franchise changed around for the better....(If you don't try you will always lose) They got lucky and got #1 pick and drafted Victor, Castle, Harper 3 years in a row with actually tanking and being a 22 win type of team for the last 3 years...

Now they are prolly going to win a championship in the future because of it and have an exciting core to cheer for and fun to watch.

Thats what you have to do in the NBA to get good results not half ass it and try to compete with a bad team. Never works.

I rather not use Spurs as an example of successful tanking because they got once-in-a-generation lucky in getting Wemby.

It wasn't all just luck....They wanted Wemby bad....They knew Wemby was once in a generational talent and they went for it....They actually tried their best to tank that year.....Its like saying "This guy just got lucky that the stock he invested in made him millions" But that guy who got "Lucky" Was invested in 100 + other stocks that failed before that....You get what you put effort in and the Raptors have been doing what the Spurs were doing with that DeRozan/Aldridge teams were doing for 5 years now.....It has not worked and won't continue to work and the faster you realize that and try something new you will continue to keep getting the same horrible results.

No level of tanking makes your odds anymore than 14% my guy. It’s luck. What’s the point of conversations with you if you can’t even acknowledge there was an 86% chance it didn’t work out.

Utah did a SAS as well, how are they lookin? Or Washington? Or Charlotte? Be pro-tank or whatever, but don’t try and lie about the likelihood or the level of stuff outside your teams control.

If it were up to you, Toronto would have blown up this team in 2013 or 2014 as well, and missed out the greatest era of raptors ball. Just keep that in mind when you try to act like there’s only 1 path to being good.

[Clutch0z24]

Just look at what the Spurs did....Post Kawhi they kept DeRozan/Aldridge around (2 Players who are all stars in their own right but you are not winning with these 2 as your lead players) They were a hovering 32-35 win team since 2019-2022 In that time span they have drafted players like Vassell, Joshua Primo, Sochan...Sochan and Vassell are ok players but they are not going to change your franchise right...

The year they blew that mid team up and traded everyone for draft picks and actually tried to be bad their franchise changed around for the better....(If you don't try you will always lose) They got lucky and got #1 pick and drafted Victor, Castle, Harper 3 years in a row with actually tanking and being a 22 win type of team for the last 3 years...

Now they are prolly going to win a championship in the future because of it and have an exciting core to cheer for and fun to watch.

Thats what you have to do in the NBA to get good results not half ass it and try to compete with a bad team. Never works.

Spurs had 2 years of first round exits followed by 3 years of 30 win teams and had nothing going to really show for it. That was an incrediblely easy decision for them to tank that season, then they get lucky to get the first overall pick, and are even luckier its in a draft with a prospect like Wemby who hasn't come around since LeBron

And we have been having 5 years of trying to be a play in team and not tanking the right way and we have nothing to really show for it....It should have been and should be an easy decision for us to have tanked many years ago but we have not really even tried....We Half assed it and we get half ass results....Spurs actually went for it and tried their best to stay in the top 5 odds in the draft lotteries for years now and they have the talent now to show for it...

People forget we were in prime tanking chance to be in the Wemby sweepstakes but we took Jakob (Mid C) in the NBA to try and solve a quick problem to a team that was destined to fail....Thats why we are where we are and the Spurs are where they are....Sure luck plays apart but you will never get lucky if you never try and you keep doing the same things over and over and hope it magically works out for you.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Trading for Jak, to play with Fred and Siakam. Then letting Fred walk....masterclass in GMing.

[Clutch0z24]

I rather not use Spurs as an example of successful tanking because they got once-in-a-generation lucky in getting Wemby.

It wasn't all just luck....They wanted Wemby bad....They knew Wemby was once in a generational talent and they went for it....They actually tried their best to tank that year.....Its like saying "This guy just got lucky that the stock he invested in made him millions" But that guy who got "Lucky" Was invested in 100 + other stocks that failed before that....You get what you put effort in and the Raptors have been doing what the Spurs were doing with that DeRozan/Aldridge teams were doing for 5 years now.....It has not worked and won't continue to work and the faster you realize that and try something new you will continue to keep getting the same horrible results.

No level of tanking makes your odds anymore than 14% my guy. It’s luck. What’s the point of conversations with you if you can’t even acknowledge there was an 86% chance it didn’t work out.

Utah did a SAS as well, how are they lookin? Or Washington? Or Charlotte? Be pro-tank or whatever, but don’t try and lie about the likelihood or the level of stuff outside your teams control.

If it were up to you, Toronto would have blown up this team in 2013 or 2014 as well, and missed out the greatest era of raptors ball. Just keep that in mind when you try to act like there’s only 1 path to being good.

Again i don't take your basketball knowledge seriously because you have so many horrible takes it makes you look like a fool....

You are the type that want to do the same half ass measures for half ass results and your happy to spend your money on the **** product with a smile on your face and cheer for a team that is going no where.....Thats the difference....Luck plays a part yes but also the higher you are in the draft lottery the better the chance + the chances of not falling too far down the draft is also something you have to think about..

Id rather be #1-2-3 odds and only be able to fall to 6th in the worst case scenario than draft in the 13th-19th range and draft the Dicks/JaKobe/Vassell/Sochans of the world...

Facts are and its been proven if you just look at the history of the league that top picks like top 1-5 have the highest percentages you get a player that at least turns your franchise around....There only been a few outliers in NBA history....Top end talent is found in the top parts of the draft....No arguing that....

Thats why the Spurs are 1000x better than the Raptors today because they picked in the top 5 3 years in a row now and got Wemby/Harper/Castle from it ....3 Players who are all prolly better than majority of the Raptors players....And the Spurs actually tried to tank 3 years now while we were half assing it...Thats the difference...

Do not compare this Raptors team for 5 years (Missing the playoffs and can hardly reach 30 + wins) To a Lowry/DeRozan team who kept making the playoffs with high 40 + season wins....ITS NOT THE SAME....


Warned for personal attack.

[Appostis]

Just look at what the Spurs did....Post Kawhi they kept DeRozan/Aldridge around (2 Players who are all stars in their own right but you are not winning with these 2 as your lead players) They were a hovering 32-35 win team since 2019-2022 In that time span they have drafted players like Vassell, Joshua Primo, Sochan...Sochan and Vassell are ok players but they are not going to change your franchise right...

The year they blew that mid team up and traded everyone for draft picks and actually tried to be bad their franchise changed around for the better....(If you don't try you will always lose) They got lucky and got #1 pick and drafted Victor, Castle, Harper 3 years in a row with actually tanking and being a 22 win type of team for the last 3 years...

Now they are prolly going to win a championship in the future because of it and have an exciting core to cheer for and fun to watch.

Thats what you have to do in the NBA to get good results not half ass it and try to compete with a bad team. Never works.

I rather not use Spurs as an example of successful tanking because they got once-in-a-generation lucky in getting Wemby.

Next up is using Dallas as a solid road map..

[nikster]

Just look at what the Spurs did....Post Kawhi they kept DeRozan/Aldridge around (2 Players who are all stars in their own right but you are not winning with these 2 as your lead players) They were a hovering 32-35 win team since 2019-2022 In that time span they have drafted players like Vassell, Joshua Primo, Sochan...Sochan and Vassell are ok players but they are not going to change your franchise right...

The year they blew that mid team up and traded everyone for draft picks and actually tried to be bad their franchise changed around for the better....(If you don't try you will always lose) They got lucky and got #1 pick and drafted Victor, Castle, Harper 3 years in a row with actually tanking and being a 22 win type of team for the last 3 years...

Now they are prolly going to win a championship in the future because of it and have an exciting core to cheer for and fun to watch.

Thats what you have to do in the NBA to get good results not half ass it and try to compete with a bad team. Never works.

Spurs had 2 years of first round exits followed by 3 years of 30 win teams and had nothing going to really show for it. That was an incrediblely easy decision for them to tank that season, then they get lucky to get the first overall pick, and are even luckier its in a draft with a prospect like Wemby who hasn't come around since LeBron

And we have been having 5 years of trying to be a play in team and not tanking the right way and we have nothing to really show for it....It should have been and should be an easy decision for us to have tanked many years ago but we have not really even tried....We Half assed it and we get half ass results....Spurs actually went for it and tried their best to stay in the top 5 odds in the draft lotteries for years now and they have the talent now to show for it...

People forget we were in prime tanking chance to be in the Wemby sweepstakes but we took Jakob (Mid C) in the NBA to try and solve a quick problem to a team that was destined to fail....Thats why we are where we are and the Spurs are where they are....Sure luck plays apart but you will never get lucky if you never try and you keep doing the same things over and over and hope it magically works out for you.

There were 9 teams with the same amount of wins or less than us at the time of the poeltl trade. 3 others that only had one more win then us. At that time Spurs only had 14 wins and we had 26. We were hardly in 'prime' position to go for Wemby unless you think almost half the league was.

And let's not forget that the Spurs had a star demanding out and an againg roster and the perfect oppurtunity to blow it up. Instead they traded for Derozan, a player Raps fans have long known you can not build around, so they can try to compete alongside 32 year old Gay and 33 year old Aldridge. Those were their 3 best players and Gay and Aldridge left for nothing and Derozan for some scraps. There decision to decide to blow it up the Wemby year was hardly a difficult one

[Clutch0z24]

Just look at what the Spurs did....Post Kawhi they kept DeRozan/Aldridge around (2 Players who are all stars in their own right but you are not winning with these 2 as your lead players) They were a hovering 32-35 win team since 2019-2022 In that time span they have drafted players like Vassell, Joshua Primo, Sochan...Sochan and Vassell are ok players but they are not going to change your franchise right...

The year they blew that mid team up and traded everyone for draft picks and actually tried to be bad their franchise changed around for the better....(If you don't try you will always lose) They got lucky and got #1 pick and drafted Victor, Castle, Harper 3 years in a row with actually tanking and being a 22 win type of team for the last 3 years...

Now they are prolly going to win a championship in the future because of it and have an exciting core to cheer for and fun to watch.

Thats what you have to do in the NBA to get good results not half ass it and try to compete with a bad team. Never works.

I rather not use Spurs as an example of successful tanking because they got once-in-a-generation lucky in getting Wemby.

Next up is using Dallas as a solid road map..

You wanna talk about blind luck.....In your example of getting good picks in the draft right....Well that is the ultimate blind luck...Is trying to compete and magically win the lottery.....If you look at NBA history and how teams became good to great fast....It starts with bottoming out and adding blue chippers to your team....Historcially you need 2 on your team to become a really great team....

Spurs are a very very smart organization and they have been forever....Because they play the draft because they know thats their strength....Just like its the Raptors strength because its the best way to get talent in the kind of market we are in...

Spurs actually bottom out and play the draft the right way instead of trying to be a play in team and "win" when you have no chance of doing so...And now Spurs have a fun team to watch for a generation while the Raptors will remain to be kinda unwatchable for many more years.

[Clutch0z24]

Spurs had 2 years of first round exits followed by 3 years of 30 win teams and had nothing going to really show for it. That was an incrediblely easy decision for them to tank that season, then they get lucky to get the first overall pick, and are even luckier its in a draft with a prospect like Wemby who hasn't come around since LeBron

And we have been having 5 years of trying to be a play in team and not tanking the right way and we have nothing to really show for it....It should have been and should be an easy decision for us to have tanked many years ago but we have not really even tried....We Half assed it and we get half ass results....Spurs actually went for it and tried their best to stay in the top 5 odds in the draft lotteries for years now and they have the talent now to show for it...

People forget we were in prime tanking chance to be in the Wemby sweepstakes but we took Jakob (Mid C) in the NBA to try and solve a quick problem to a team that was destined to fail....Thats why we are where we are and the Spurs are where they are....Sure luck plays apart but you will never get lucky if you never try and you keep doing the same things over and over and hope it magically works out for you.

There were 9 teams with the same amount of wins or less than us at the time of the poeltl trade. 3 others that only had one more win then us. At that time Spurs only had 14 wins and we had 26. We were hardly in 'prime' position to go for Wemby unless you think almost half the league was.

And let's not forget that the Spurs had a star demanding out and an againg roster and the perfect oppurtunity to blow it up. Instead they traded for Derozan, a player Raps fans have long known you can not build around, so they can try to compete alongside 32 year old Gay and 33 year old Aldridge. Those were their 3 best players and Gay and Aldridge left for nothing and Derozan for some scraps. There decision to decide to blow it up the Wemby year was hardly a difficult one

You can make as many excuses for the Raptors management post championship as you want....The facts are Spurs went for the tank and blew it up while the Raptors half assed it....And you can look at the 2 products on the court and the success and you can see who has had the better outcome....Its the Spurs and its not even a conversation....All because the Spurs realized they needed to get new talent in the draft and went for it...We did not and now we are stuck with a overpaid team that will struggle to make the play ins....

And lets not act like there is not a 2026 draft with generational talent in it that we will prolly end up being too far down in the draft again to grab one of the players that could help us change the franchise around and we will end up with another starter/Role player type ....Rinse and repeat...

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Trading for Jak, to play with Fred and Siakam. Then letting Fred walk....masterclass in GMing.

To see that the chemistry with Scottie and Fred, Pascal, OG core wasn’t gonna work - but to not pick a direction and let it play it out so all of our assets were devalued while we limited our productivity, doesn’t look especially great in hindsight.

[CPT]

The old idea that teams need solid play at PG and C to win still holds up.

A star at either position doesn’t guarantee anything, but weakness at one or both of those positions means you’ll likely be mediocre at best.

We don’t have a starting level PG on the roster. We might not have a backup level PG on the roster either, though Shead can hopefully get there.

We have one real C on the roster, and he’s either washed or “just” injured.

This is the bigger problem than a couple less than optimal draft picks, when you shouldn’t expect to bat 1.000 anyway.

Like a lot of Masai’s moves, they’re totally defensible from a value standpoint in isolation, but in combination, in context, there have been a bunch of disasters.

[nikster]

And we have been having 5 years of trying to be a play in team and not tanking the right way and we have nothing to really show for it....It should have been and should be an easy decision for us to have tanked many years ago but we have not really even tried....We Half assed it and we get half ass results....Spurs actually went for it and tried their best to stay in the top 5 odds in the draft lotteries for years now and they have the talent now to show for it...

People forget we were in prime tanking chance to be in the Wemby sweepstakes but we took Jakob (Mid C) in the NBA to try and solve a quick problem to a team that was destined to fail....Thats why we are where we are and the Spurs are where they are....Sure luck plays apart but you will never get lucky if you never try and you keep doing the same things over and over and hope it magically works out for you.

There were 9 teams with the same amount of wins or less than us at the time of the poeltl trade. 3 others that only had one more win then us. At that time Spurs only had 14 wins and we had 26. We were hardly in 'prime' position to go for Wemby unless you think almost half the league was.

And let's not forget that the Spurs had a star demanding out and an againg roster and the perfect oppurtunity to blow it up. Instead they traded for Derozan, a player Raps fans have long known you can not build around, so they can try to compete alongside 32 year old Gay and 33 year old Aldridge. Those were their 3 best players and Gay and Aldridge left for nothing and Derozan for some scraps. There decision to decide to blow it up the Wemby year was hardly a difficult one

You can make as many excuses for the Raptors management post championship as you want....The facts are Spurs went for the tank and blew it up while the Raptors half assed it....And you can look at the 2 products on the court and the success and you can see who has had the better outcome....Its the Spurs and its not even a conversation....All because the Spurs realized they needed to get new talent in the draft and went for it...We did not and now we are stuck with a overpaid team that will struggle to make the play ins....

And lets not act like there is not a 2026 draft with generational talent in it that we will prolly end up being too far down in the draft again to grab one of the players that could help us change the franchise around and we will end up with another starter/Role player type ....Rinse and repeat...

Not making excuses, just stating the obvious fact that Raptors and Spurs were in completely different situations. When Spurs had the decision to choose between tanking and competing they initially chose competing. It wasn't until all their best players were gone for nothing that they finally decided to tank. The only "tanking" move of significance they made was trading Dejounte Murray. Their roster was otherwise bad enough to be at 14 wins at the next trade deadline.

[Clutch0z24]

There were 9 teams with the same amount of wins or less than us at the time of the poeltl trade. 3 others that only had one more win then us. At that time Spurs only had 14 wins and we had 26. We were hardly in 'prime' position to go for Wemby unless you think almost half the league was.

And let's not forget that the Spurs had a star demanding out and an againg roster and the perfect oppurtunity to blow it up. Instead they traded for Derozan, a player Raps fans have long known you can not build around, so they can try to compete alongside 32 year old Gay and 33 year old Aldridge. Those were their 3 best players and Gay and Aldridge left for nothing and Derozan for some scraps. There decision to decide to blow it up the Wemby year was hardly a difficult one

You can make as many excuses for the Raptors management post championship as you want....The facts are Spurs went for the tank and blew it up while the Raptors half assed it....And you can look at the 2 products on the court and the success and you can see who has had the better outcome....Its the Spurs and its not even a conversation....All because the Spurs realized they needed to get new talent in the draft and went for it...We did not and now we are stuck with a overpaid team that will struggle to make the play ins....

And lets not act like there is not a 2026 draft with generational talent in it that we will prolly end up being too far down in the draft again to grab one of the players that could help us change the franchise around and we will end up with another starter/Role player type ....Rinse and repeat...

Not making excuses, just stating the obvious fact that Raptors and Spurs were in completely different situations. When Spurs had the decision to choose between tanking and competing they initially chose competing. It wasn't until all their best players were gone for nothing that they finally decided to tank. The only "tanking" move of significance they made was trading Dejounte Murray. Their roster was otherwise bad enough to be at 14 wins at the next trade deadline.

Nope you are wrong that the Spurs decided to tank because they were in a better position too....Want to know the truth....Spurs are really good at evaluaing drafts and talent in the drafts....They knew Victor was a generational talent years before and they always wanted to tank the year he was getting drafted....They knew this in advance it wasn't some magical thing that fell into place....They were active in trying to get Wemby and it worked out in their favor...

It is true some drafts are worth tanking and some are not worth tanking for....The Wemby draft was worth it , The 2025 draft was worth it (Love CMB but if we tanked hard enough it is possible one of Flagg/VJ is a Raptor)....Just like the 2026 draft would be worth it but yet again we are trying to win with a team that won't win shii...The "It will never be me so why try" mentality will never work in your favor in life or in Basketball.

[YogurtProducer]

Again i don't take your basketball knowledge seriously because you have so many horrible takes it makes you look like a fool....

Very easy not to reply to me. Even easier to attack the argument and not the poster. If we are calling one another a fool however, maybe chill on the ellipsis' in every sentence. Just saying.

You are the type that want to do the same half ass measures for half ass results and your happy to spend your money on the **** product with a smile on your face and cheer for a team that is going no where.....Thats the difference....Luck plays a part yes but also the higher you are in the draft lottery the better the chance + the chances of not falling too far down the draft is also something you have to think about..

Am I? I haven't spent a cent on the Raptors in probably a decade my guy.

Id rather be #1-2-3 odds and only be able to fall to 6th in the worst case scenario than draft in the 13th-19th range and draft the Dicks/JaKobe/Vassell/Sochans of the world...

Sure, so would I. But you ignore that you also could draft Scoot/Risacher/Ivey/Green/etc. in those top 6 slots.

Facts are and its been proven if you just look at the history of the league that top picks like top 1-5 have the highest percentages you get a player that at least turns your franchise around....There only been a few outliers in NBA history....Top end talent is found in the top parts of the draft....No arguing that....

Facts have also been proven next to no teams who have drafted top #1 specifically have won a title with that player.

Thats why the Spurs are 1000x better than the Raptors today because they picked in the top 5 3 years in a row now and got Wemby/Harper/Castle from it ....3 Players who are all prolly better than majority of the Raptors players....And the Spurs actually tried to tank 3 years now while we were half assing it...Thats the difference...

Picking top 5 once is luck. 3 times is incredible luck. You can't rely on that.

Do not compare this Raptors team for 5 years (Missing the playoffs and can hardly reach 30 + wins) To a Lowry/DeRozan team who kept making the playoffs with high 40 + season wins....ITS NOT THE SAME....

I didn't. I said 2013 or 2014, which would be 5 straight years of missing the playoffs with 33, 40, 22, 23, and 34 wins, traded for Rudy Gay and gave up a pick for Kyle Lowry (that might have been Giannis).

Again man, I am simply stating that tanking is no guarantee to win in the NBA. Just like whatever we are doing now is no guarantee to become anything. The sooner you admit there is a ton of luck in a tank rebuild, the better. You act as if it is a foolproof strategy. But you ignore the Hornets, Wizards, Bulls, Pistons, Pelicans, Blazers, Kings who have all picked in the lottery 4+ times since 2020 and have nothing to show for it except potential.

[YogurtProducer]

Nope you are wrong that the Spurs decided to tank because they were in a better position too....Want to know the truth....Spurs are really good at evaluaing drafts and talent in the drafts....They knew Victor was a generational talent years before and they always wanted to tank the year he was getting drafted....They knew this in advance it wasn't some magical thing that fell into place....They were active in trying to get Wemby and it worked out in their favor...

How did that work out for Utah with Flagg?

Like man, yes, everyone knows that Wemby was a generational guy. That doesn't mean it is as easy as "tank, get generational guy, be good". The more likely outcome is "tank, pick 5th/6th, get decent player, pick in lottery for 5 more years."

I am not even anti-tank but your arguments are incredibly weak and ignore a LOT of nuance of the situations.

[Spates]

The old idea that teams need solid play at PG and C to win still holds up.

A star at either position doesn’t guarantee anything, but weakness at one or both of those positions means you’ll likely be mediocre at best.

We don’t have a starting level PG on the roster. We might not have a backup level PG on the roster either, though Shead can hopefully get there.

We have one real C on the roster, and he’s either washed or “just” injured.

This is the bigger problem than a couple less than optimal draft picks, when you shouldn’t expect to bat 1.000 anyway.

Like a lot of Masai’s moves, they’re totally defensible from a value standpoint in isolation, but in combination, in context, there have been a bunch of disasters.

I firmly believe that strong PG would solve a lot of problems. Despite it being a little reductive, I look at many of the rosters we've had since 2022 and think "we be a lot better with a prime Lowry at PG.

Even this season. Swap IQ with 2017 Lowry and we have a very competitive team. The problem is much less drafting than it is too end talent.

[YogurtProducer]

The old idea that teams need solid play at PG and C to win still holds up.

A star at either position doesn’t guarantee anything, but weakness at one or both of those positions means you’ll likely be mediocre at best.

We don’t have a starting level PG on the roster. We might not have a backup level PG on the roster either, though Shead can hopefully get there.

We have one real C on the roster, and he’s either washed or “just” injured.

This is the bigger problem than a couple less than optimal draft picks, when you shouldn’t expect to bat 1.000 anyway.

Like a lot of Masai’s moves, they’re totally defensible from a value standpoint in isolation, but in combination, in context, there have been a bunch of disasters.

I firmly believe that strong PG would solve a lot of problems. Despite it being a little reductive, I look at many of the rosters we've had since 2022 and think "we be a lot better with a prime Lowry at PG.

Even this season. Swap IQ with 2017 Lowry and we have a very competitive team. The problem is much less drafting than it is too end talent.

Well yeah.. adding a HOF level player to yoru team is obviously going to make you a lot better...

[Clutch0z24]

Nope you are wrong that the Spurs decided to tank because they were in a better position too....Want to know the truth....Spurs are really good at evaluaing drafts and talent in the drafts....They knew Victor was a generational talent years before and they always wanted to tank the year he was getting drafted....They knew this in advance it wasn't some magical thing that fell into place....They were active in trying to get Wemby and it worked out in their favor...

How did that work out for Utah with Flagg?

Like man, yes, everyone knows that Wemby was a generational guy. That doesn't mean it is as easy as "tank, get generational guy, be good". The more likely outcome is "tank, pick 5th/6th, get decent player, pick in lottery for 5 more years."

I am not even anti-tank but your arguments are incredibly weak and ignore a LOT of nuance of the situations.

So your solution to this is "We will never have a chance so why try" If the Spurs had the same thought process as you they would not be where they are right now....If you are not having any success in low lotto picks, And you are not having luck on the trade market for 5+ years i think its time to switch it up?

You compare the Raptors now to the Lowry/DD Raptors....Difference was that Raptors team was competitive and could actually beat good teams on any given night at that time....This Raptors team will beat up on injured/tanking teams to be a 35 win team on the season and draft another role player in the late teens expecting different results...

We have been TRYING your way of team building for 5 years now to horrible results in over paying meh players and still losing when trying to be good....Time to change things up i think and try to draft more blue chippers with high end draft picks since the other way has been wasting years and years of being a good product on the court and to watch.

You ever heard of the saying "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results," Thats basically you and what this Front office has been doing for years now.

[Duffman100]

lol. None of the teams mentioned are examples of the "tank works" mentality.