Is Wembanyamas impact now similar to Wilt?

[The Master]

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Not really, Sampson was a fantastic prospect and ultimately a very good NBA player, and deservedly he is remembered as an archetype of being a 'unicorn' - but he was ~healthy until he was 25-26, and he was nowhere near level of the all-time greats even in similar moments of their careers, nor he was that skilled or impactful defensively, Sampson was more 'a little bit of everything' type of a guy. Sure, he could've become better with time, and there are opinions his athleticism was already affected by minor injuries while in college, but people exaggerate a little bit who Ralph Sampson was as a player overall. So fun to watch though, especially in comparison to his era, no question about that.

[WillyJakkz]

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Not really, Sampson was a fantastic prospect and ultimately a very good NBA player, and deservedly he is remembered as an archetype of being a 'unicorn' - but he was ~healthy until he was 25-26, and he was nowhere near level of the all-time greats even in similar moments of their careers, nor he was that skilled or impactful defensively, Sampson was more 'a little bit of everything' type of a guy. Sure, he could've become better with time, and there are opinions his athleticism was already affected by minor injuries while in college, but people exaggerate a little bit who Ralph Sampson was as a player overall. So fun to watch though, especially in comparison to his era, no question about that.

Low road take.

He played with Akeem "before the H" Olajuwon after his rookie year who practically averaged identical numbers to Sampson's rookie yr so of course his stats and impact will reflect differently (which is something you absolutely didn't account for).

That's something a true "master" of basketball would know.

[D.Brasco]

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Not really, Sampson was a fantastic prospect and ultimately a very good NBA player, and deservedly he is remembered as an archetype of being a 'unicorn' - but he was ~healthy until he was 25-26, and he was nowhere near level of the all-time greats even in similar moments of their careers, nor he was that skilled or impactful defensively, Sampson was more 'a little bit of everything' type of a guy. Sure, he could've become better with time, and there are opinions his athleticism was already affected by minor injuries while in college, but people exaggerate a little bit who Ralph Sampson was as a player overall. So fun to watch though, especially in comparison to his era, no question about that.

Also, Sampson was really no taller than Kareem in actuality. When factoring that, Kareem was arguably more of a "unicorn" among the two.

[The Master]

Low road take.

He played with Akeem "before the H" Olajuwon after his rookie year who practically averaged identical numbers to Sampson's rookie yr so of course his stats and impact will reflect differently (which is something you absolutely didn't account for).

That's something a true "master" of basketball would know.

I don't think playing with Hakeem contributed to Sampson being a streaky shooter or not being a dominant defensive player. Also, there's a reason why Hakeem (while being 2-3 years younger) was a leader of that Rockets team. Sampson was a fantastic prospect, indeed his career was cut short because of injuries and playing-style wise he was unparalleled for his era - that's why there's a myth of Sampson being an all-time great talent ruined by the injuries. In reality, as a 24/25yo, while he was definitely a great player, he just wasn't on the level of other all-time great big men. So it's hard to put him in this convo besides him being perhaps this archetype of a unicorn (extremely tall big man with all-round skills). But Wemby is already better than he ever was.

[Black Jack]

I know what Wemby is poised to do numbers wise and how he's made the leap this year and probably will keep doing but still, Wilt probably had a larger degree of dominance. Those clips look like he was just devastating teams. Even the likely goat defender Russell said Wilt required a team approach to defend.

Wemby is a taller Durant on offense and a dominator on defense which is historic. But there's guys his size somewhat like Chet that are going to be able to compete.

That said it's a gold comparison at some level.

[MrBigShot]

Victor is a better basketball player than Wilt ever was.

[KayDee35]

I strongly reject the claim that Wilt was a loser simply because he often lost to the guy with the better team.

Swap their rosters, and the results flip. Everyone loves to call basketball a “team sport,” but that truth conveniently disappears when it’s time to give credit—or assign blame.

Wilt wasn't a "loser." His teams twice set the record for most wins in a season and he won a total of 2 rings those same years. Wilt is the greatest talent to step on to a basketball court.

We don't have to hypothesize about Wilt being on a better team than Russell. We can simply examine when Wilt had home court advantage in their playoff matchups:

-'66: Philly has 1 more win and home court, but lost 4-1 to the Celtics.
-'67: Philly sets the record for most wins in a season with 68, which is 8 more wins than Boston. They won over the Celtics 4-1.
-'68: Philly wins 62 games, again 8 more wins than Boston. They go up 3-1 on Boston, but then lost to the Celtics 4-3.
-'69: The Celtics get the #4 seed in the East while the Lakers secure the #1 seed in the West. They face each other in the Finals, the Lakers go up 3-2 but then lost the next two. Russell's team became the lowest seed ever to win a ring. Besides Hakeem's #6 Rockets, every NBA champion has had a higher rank.

4 times when Wilt had the advantage over Russell, he went 1-3. Russell was mostly on good to great teams, agreed. But when he wasn't, his teams still managed to perform well above expectations in the playoffs. Thus, I can't agree with the claim that if they swapped teams we'd have the same results.

Bear with me, but Russell's defensive dominance relative to the entire league is not properly understood. For context, here are the 20 best seasons of Offensive Win Shares:

Spoiler:

Rank Player OWS
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 18.31
2. George Mikan* 17.64
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 17.11
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 17.01
5. Alex Groza 16.50
6. Oscar Robertson* 16.20
7. George Mikan* 16.00
8. Wilt Chamberlain* 15.96
9. Neil Johnston* 15.35
10. George Mikan* 15.33
11. Michael Jordan* 15.16
12. Michael Jordan* 14.86
13. Wilt Chamberlain* 14.83
14. Jerry West* 14.82
15. Kevin Durant 14.79
16. Paul Arizin* 14.78
17. Oscar Robertson* 14.72
18. Alex Groza 14.70
19. Michael Jordan* 14.68
20. LeBron James 14.61

KAJ has #1 and #4 but no other spots. Wilt has 3 spots. MJ has 3, but none in the top 10. Mikan has 3 in the top 10. No single player dominates the list. In fact, the difference between the #1 season and the #20 season is 3.7 Win Shares. This is expected, as the NBA has seen tons of talent over the decades. Why should any one player dominate over his peers when the talent pool is so deep.

Now let's look at Defensive Win Shares:

Spoiler:

Rank Player DWS
1. Bill Russell* 15.96
2. Bill Russell* 14.41
3. Bill Russell* 12.55
4. Bill Russell* 11.64
5. Bill Russell* 11.37
6. Bill Russell* 11.33
7. Wilt Chamberlain* 10.73
8. Wilt Chamberlain* 10.58
9. Bill Russell* 9.87
10. Dave Cowens* 9.85
11. Artis Gilmore* 9.81
12. Bill Russell* 9.22
13. Mel Daniels* 9.11
14. Ben Wallace* 9.08
15. Bill Russell* 8.93
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 8.74
17. Wilt Chamberlain* 8.50
18. Artis Gilmore* 8.27
19. Bill Russell* 8.19
20. Elvin Hayes* 8.16

Russell has the top 6 seasons and 10 of the top 20. If you recall, no one had more than 3 of the top 20 spots for OWS. Wilt was a defensive beast and he has #7, #8, and #17 (3 of the top 20). If Wilt was a defensive beast, then Russell was way more than that. Russell's best season is 5.23 WS better than Wilt's best season! The difference between #1 and #20 is 7.8 Win Shares, more than twice that of the gap we saw with OWS. Take Russell's seasons out and the gap between #7 (Wilt's best season) and the season 20 spots down from there is a more reasonable 2.8 WS. Russell is a crazy outlier on defense, even compared to Wilt.

[Black Jack]

Vitor is a better basketball player than Wilt ever was.

Silly to discuss. 60+ years later and has guys like Dirk Durant, Curry, Harden to emulate.

It's like saying the best car now is better than the best car in 1962. Sure we have a lot more technology now.

Honestly Wilt's tools were elite leave it at that.

[sikma42]

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Not really, Sampson was a fantastic prospect and ultimately a very good NBA player, and deservedly he is remembered as an archetype of being a 'unicorn' - but he was ~healthy until he was 25-26, and he was nowhere near level of the all-time greats even in similar moments of their careers, nor he was that skilled or impactful defensively, Sampson was more 'a little bit of everything' type of a guy. Sure, he could've become better with time, and there are opinions his athleticism was already affected by minor injuries while in college, but people exaggerate a little bit who Ralph Sampson was as a player overall. So fun to watch though, especially in comparison to his era, no question about that.

Ralph Sampson always looked like he had a small wingspan and reach compared to his height. Also not quite as athletic or coordinated as Victor.

Victor has better isolation moves than a lot of nba guards, not just the bench players but starting non guards

[The Master]

Ralph Sampson always looked like he had a small wingspan and reach compared to his height. Also not quite as athletic or coordinated as Victor.

Victor has better isolation moves than a lot of nba guards, not just the bench players but starting non guards

Yeah. Plus, I think Sampson gets more credit than he should receive for having 'a little bit' of handles, and 'a little bit' of shooting - when in reality he was a 66% FT shooter, averaged 3.6 assists/100 possessions, and in an era where Eaton or Bol averaged +4 BPG, his career-best was 2.4 BPG. He was super tall and sometimes was doing things big men weren't doing at that time, but I don't think there was that much happening thanks to that: he wasn't an efficient stretch big, point center or creator, or defensive anchor. In this sense, he's very overrated. Wemby has upside to be at least very good in every single one of these areas.

[Lockdown504090]

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Not really, Sampson was a fantastic prospect and ultimately a very good NBA player, and deservedly he is remembered as an archetype of being a 'unicorn' - but he was ~healthy until he was 25-26, and he was nowhere near level of the all-time greats even in similar moments of their careers, nor he was that skilled or impactful defensively, Sampson was more 'a little bit of everything' type of a guy. Sure, he could've become better with time, and there are opinions his athleticism was already affected by minor injuries while in college, but people exaggerate a little bit who Ralph Sampson was as a player overall. So fun to watch though, especially in comparison to his era, no question about that.

ralph was really good, I just think its way easier to face the basket and attack defenders in todays game than yesterday's. wemby likes the behind the back move and the in and out dribble, both are WAY harder to pull off in the 80s due to palming restrictions, and not being allowed to have the hand on the side of the ball while dribbling. Then theres the gathering step, which wemby uses a lot. Then theres the contact that the offensive player is allowed to make with the defender. like when people say "X player is just as talented as Y" I think we have to look at those factors when we analyze them. like I really do wonder if ralph woulda been wemby if he was born in 2004.

[DCasey91]

Wemby is the modern version of Ralph Sampson.

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

There's real time footage out there in play-offs and live game for all to see stop this. It was always Hakeem that was the one the Celtics said it as did the Bulls ... as did the Lakers, actual fact if anything it was his defense overall that got smarter and better as years progressed dont believe me go check the Finals vs Celtics he had all the moves offensively back then.

Sampson was more of a paper tiger. Wemby is the Real Deal.

[Effigy]

Not that they necessarily play the game the same way, but both have such physical advantages over their competition that you'd almost want to change the games rules just for them. Wilt, being a 7'1" super-athlete in the early 1960s, and Wembanyama, at 7'5" in today's league and having guard like skills, are both massive physical outliers compared to their competition.

I think Wilt is as far back as we have to go for a proper comparison to Wemby.

So I can't not note that Wilt's impact wasn't the best of his own era, Russell's was.

Baesd on what exactly?

To your question, that means it's really not that hard for Wemby to top Wilt's impact - it's not some impossible thing we've never seen before or since - and so long as Wemby stays healthy, it's probably more a question of when Wemby tops Wilt's impact rather if.

Honestly, this paragraph just makes it seem like you dont kow who Wilt was. Weve seen Wilts impact since? So weve seen a 100 point gane? Weve seen someone average 50 points a game? Weve seen a center lead the league in assists? (I know Jokic almost did it but Wikt DID do it)

[Cavsfansince84]

On a per minute basis I think he'd getting close to any year outside of 67 Wilt. Part of Wilt's impact though was he was a guy who played 46+mpg. So on a per game basis that's hard to beat at only 33-34 mpg.

[ChuckChilly]

Plummers and firemen.

[johannking]

Wemby is the modern version of Ralph Sampson.

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Just googled Ralph Sapson's stats... idk man

[og15]

Not that they necessarily play the game the same way, but both have such physical advantages over their competition that you'd almost want to change the games rules just for them. Wilt, being a 7'1" super-athlete in the early 1960s, and Wembanyama, at 7'5" in today's league and having guard like skills, are both massive physical outliers compared to their competition.

I think Wilt is as far back as we have to go for a proper comparison to Wemby.

So I can't not note that Wilt's impact wasn't the best of his own era, Russell's was.

Baesd on what exactly?

To your question, that means it's really not that hard for Wemby to top Wilt's impact - it's not some impossible thing we've never seen before or since - and so long as Wemby stays healthy, it's probably more a question of when Wemby tops Wilt's impact rather if.

Honestly, this paragraph just makes it seem like you dont kow who Wilt was. Weve seen Wilts impact since? So weve seen a 100 point gane? Weve seen someone average 50 points a game? Weve seen a center lead the league in assists? (I know Jokic almost did it but Wikt DID do it)

Jokic and Wilt were both 2nd in apg, Wilt was first in total assists because Oscar played only 65 games that year, so yea, we've had a C do that too, though I get the technicality aspect, but that's not impact.

The question also becomes, are we talking about impact or statistics and statistical feats? A lot of what is being cited are statistics, does that necessarily mean impact was greater? Maybe, maybe not, people who watched both through their careers had differing opinions on that.

[cupcakesnake]

Wemby is the modern version of Ralph Sampson.

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Just googled Ralph Sapson's stats... idk man

Sampson was an incredible prospect and was definitely going to do big things in the NBA, had health not gotten in the way.

I don't think Sampson was on the same level of Wemby, physicall or skill-wise. Wemby looks even bigger that Sampson now and has way longer arms.. He's faster, more fluid, lighter on his feet, quicker. He has better handles and shooting touch. Wemby still isn't as old as Sampson was in his rookie season.

I get why these 2 players are compared, but Wemby is like the pokemon evolution of Ralph Sampson.

[WillyJakkz]

Wemby is the modern version of Ralph Sampson.

Had Sampson stayed healthy he is who we'd be comparing Wemby to not Wilt.

Just googled Ralph Sapson's stats... idk man

Sampson was an incredible prospect and was definitely going to do big things in the NBA, had health not gotten in the way.

I don't think Sampson was on the same level of Wemby, physicall or skill-wise. Wemby looks even bigger that Sampson now and has way longer arms.. He's faster, more fluid, lighter on his feet, quicker. He has better handles and shooting touch. Wemby still isn't as old as Sampson was in his rookie season.

I get why these 2 players are compared, but Wemby is like the pokemon evolution of Ralph Sampson.

You get it. Others are marginalizing him. He literally played with arguably a Mt Rushmore C in Akeem who as a rookie came in and cemented (along with the coaching staff) that he was gonna be the man. Especially considering old school ball was inside out and Akeem was superior to Sampson in that regard.

But Sampson was 7'4" and given the way the game has changed Wemby is allowed to do what Sampson skill-wise for his time could do BUT was discouraged from it simply because of his height.

Wemby has a much much better handle of the ball jumper etc however my statement was Sampson was our version of Wemby which holds true. Wemby is the evolution of Sampson not Wilt.

Sampson was more nimble and agile than Wilt who was robotically athletic in his movements. Wilt however was a specimen and ran with the speed and grace of a gazelle but his handle etc were stiff looking, Sampson was not as stiff but compared to Wemby yes.

Wemby comes more from the Ralph Sampson "tree" than Wilt and had Sampson been able to play the way he could (and most obviously heatlhwise) things would be different because he easily used to face up guys and shoot over them or go around them.

The other guys disputing this just want to come off as correct to justify their bball acumen.

[DaPessimist]

It's a different era of basketball. Nobody is ever going to have the same impact as Wilt.