Varsho/Moreno/Kirk Discussion Thread

[brwnman]

Closure.

What they gonna say now?

Did we watch the same game? I saw Varsho prevent numerous runs with his glove tonight. And I don't think you understand what closure means. It was decided upon two weeks ago that the trade was a win. Incredible season with Kirk and Varsho trending up. Moreno, unfortunately seems to have stagnated and has been unable to address his power issues.

Moreno was really good this year and he hit for a bit more power this season. His HR/PA was right on par with Kirk actually. He was limited by injuries but a 2.7 WAR in 309 PA is really good. Kirk's lack of speed really hurt us at times in this series. I mean you even saw them pitch around Barger for the potential GIDP against Kirk than won them the game.

No one is going to acknowledge that. They pitched around Barger to get to Kirk, cause they knew he folds under pressure and will ground into a double play. And if somehow, he struck out or popped up in the infield, Varsho was next who was going to K.

[Mehar]

No need to talk about Moreno, Gurriel, and even Kirk anymore in this thread. Kirk had a solid bounce back year. His framing behind the plate was exceptional. He was the reason the Jays won the division and had home field advantage. Kirk struggled in the World Series at times, but you could not ask for much more based on how exceptional he was behind the plate framing wise. Stealing Strikes for his pitchers on a regular basis.

Talking about Noodle Arm Varsho- this team throughout the year performed much better without him in the lineup than with him in it. What he provides you with his catches, he negates with his arm and atrocious hitting. Single handedly cost this team a title, leaving 13 men on base in Games 6 and 7. All he needed was a Sac Fly or hit the ball out of the infield for once, and we are champions. Yet his Fan Boys like Randle were arguing with me and JaysRule15 yesterday, why his Man Crush Varsho should remain hitting 5th.

Like I said yesterday before the lineup was announced- Varsho should have been hitting 8th instead behind Clement. If that happened, we win Game 7. Heck even Game 6 and possibly Game 3. The focus now from Shatkins would be to get another Centre Fielder who is a decent defender but a much better hitter than Varsho could ever dream of. A guy who you can slot in the middle of the order. Those guys do not grow on trees, so Rogers needs to open its purse strings from all the profits they enjoyed this off-season. Bellinger is a free agent, who will cost a lot less than Tucker. They should make him a priority this off-season. No draft pick cost also. Decline the 10 million or so for Noodle Arm Varsho. Whatever team Varsho plays for next year, I will buy that jersey and send it to his Fan Boy Randle. I know it will hurt losing his Man Crush, but I will buy his next team's jersey for him as long as that piece of garbage hitter is off this team for 2026. Same with his fellow hitting scrub IKF.

[s e n s i]

varsho absolutely killed us this series

there’s no two ways about it

but please give me varsho every day over the light hitting gabbie moreno whose diamondbacks have never made it that far in the playoffs, and never will as long as he is their catcher.

moreno in the 2023 postseason - 101 wRC+
varsho in the 2025 postseason - 110 wRC+
kirk in the 2025 postseason - 129 wRC+

despite the horrid execution of both varsho and kirk last night, still would rather have both of them in October over “gabriel moreno”

‘Never made it that far’ - literally made it to the WS his first year. Just full of lies and bad takes.

‘Postseason wRC+’ LOL - what was his wRC+ in the last 16 games of this postseason?

the 2023 world series went to how many games?

[brwnman]

varsho absolutely killed us this series

there’s no two ways about it

but please give me varsho every day over the light hitting gabbie moreno whose diamondbacks have never made it that far in the playoffs, and never will as long as he is their catcher.

moreno in the 2023 postseason - 101 wRC+
varsho in the 2025 postseason - 110 wRC+
kirk in the 2025 postseason - 129 wRC+

despite the horrid execution of both varsho and kirk last night, still would rather have both of them in October over “gabriel moreno”

‘Never made it that far’ - literally made it to the WS his first year. Just full of lies and bad takes.

‘Postseason wRC+’ LOL - what was his wRC+ in the last 16 games of this postseason?

the 2023 world series went to how many games?

5.

And what series comes after the World Series?

[s e n s i]

‘Never made it that far’ - literally made it to the WS his first year. Just full of lies and bad takes.

‘Postseason wRC+’ LOL - what was his wRC+ in the last 16 games of this postseason?

the 2023 world series went to how many games?

5.

And what series comes after the World Series?

and what is further in the playoffs: game 5 of a world series or game 7 of a world series?

[s e n s i]

yeah no, i’m actually really good with varsho and kirk on this team, thanks. we’re nowhere near a title without either of them. and assuredly my first thought at the conclusion of last nights game was certainly not about wishing we had a bloop hitting catcher instead.

[brwnman]

the 2023 world series went to how many games?

5.

And what series comes after the World Series?

and what is further in the playoffs: game 5 of a world series or game 7 of a world series?

You didn't answer my question when I answered yours. No other series after the World Series? That's what I thought. So they got just as far. A loss in the WS. 5 games versus 7 games makes no difference when you lose. I also don't know how you reconcile D'Backs sweeping the ALDS and Jays taking more games - does that mean Jays got further in that series? Nonsensical argument.

Btw, Moreno was more productive in 5 games than Varsho was in 7 games in the WS... and more productive in the playoffs overall. Moreno had a 10-7 record, Varsho had 10-8 record. Try again.

[brwnman]

yeah no, i’m actually really good with varsho and kirk on this team, thanks. we’re nowhere near a title without either of them. and assuredly my first thought at the conclusion of last nights game was certainly not about wishing we had a bloop hitting catcher instead.

I think the rest of us were fine with a bloop hit in either game 6 or 7 to win the WS. Regardless of who it came from.

[DelAbbot]

Who dragged Kirk into this discussion of Varsho for Moreno deal? I think it's clear that Kirk has proven himself as the better long term catcher than Moreno and the FO was correct to keep Kirk and trade Moreno, despite Kirk's shortcomings like slow foot speed.

The question is why did we trade Moreno for Varsho instead better position players or a starting pitcher. Varsho is a good player in aggregate over a season but his 3 shortcomings: strikeouts, streakiness with the bat and limp noodle arm, hurt us and cost us a World Series

[Randle McMurphy]

People can vent all they want (and they should after a game like that), but they don’t come even close to a WS without the trade and without Kirk and Varsho playing at the extremely high level they did all season.

It remains an enormous win of a trade and the fact that those two are at least on the roster next season will really help their chances to get back there again.

[brwnman]

Who dragged Kirk into this discussion of Varsho for Moreno deal? I think it's clear that Kirk has proven himself as the better long term catcher than Moreno and the FO was correct to keep Kirk and trade Moreno, despite Kirk's shortcomings like slow foot speed.

The question is why did we trade Moreno for Varsho instead better position players or a starting pitcher. Varsho is a good player in aggregate over a season but his 3 shortcomings: strikeouts, streakiness with the bat and limp noodle arm, hurt us and cost us a World Series

Second part is correct, but Kirk is not proven and nothing to suggest he's a better long term catcher. Nothing over the last 3 years will tell you that. And with strike zone challenges, his impact has been dampened ever further.

What we know for sure is Varsho was the single biggest reason why the Jays lost the WS. and if you're not willing to concede that, you don't know ball or are intentionally being a contrarian.

[brwnman]

People can vent all they want (and they should after a game like that), but they don’t come even close to a WS without the trade and without Kirk and Varsho playing at the extremely high level they did all season.

It remains an enormous win of a trade and the fact that those two are at least on the roster next season will really help their chances to get back there again.

Without Kirk and Varsho, this exact team gets to the WS sooner. Without Varsho, they win the WS sooner. Those are ... sadly, the facts.

[DelAbbot]

Who dragged Kirk into this discussion of Varsho for Moreno deal? I think it's clear that Kirk has proven himself as the better long term catcher than Moreno and the FO was correct to keep Kirk and trade Moreno, despite Kirk's shortcomings like slow foot speed.

The question is why did we trade Moreno for Varsho instead better position players or a starting pitcher. Varsho is a good player in aggregate over a season but his 3 shortcomings: strikeouts, streakiness with the bat and limp noodle arm, hurt us and cost us a World Series

Second part is correct, but Kirk is not proven and nothing to suggest he's a better long term catcher. Nothing over the last 3 years will tell you that. And with strike zone challenges, his impact has been dampened ever further.

What we know for sure is Varsho was the single biggest reason why the Jays lost the WS. and if you're not willing to concede that, you don't know ball or are intentionally being a contrarian.

Watch this video about catcher defense. It will change your perspective on Kirk

Watch on YouTube

[brwnman]

Who dragged Kirk into this discussion of Varsho for Moreno deal? I think it's clear that Kirk has proven himself as the better long term catcher than Moreno and the FO was correct to keep Kirk and trade Moreno, despite Kirk's shortcomings like slow foot speed.

The question is why did we trade Moreno for Varsho instead better position players or a starting pitcher. Varsho is a good player in aggregate over a season but his 3 shortcomings: strikeouts, streakiness with the bat and limp noodle arm, hurt us and cost us a World Series

Second part is correct, but Kirk is not proven and nothing to suggest he's a better long term catcher. Nothing over the last 3 years will tell you that. And with strike zone challenges, his impact has been dampened ever further.

What we know for sure is Varsho was the single biggest reason why the Jays lost the WS. and if you're not willing to concede that, you don't know ball or are intentionally being a contrarian.

Watch this video about catcher defense. It will change your perspective on Kirk

Watch on YouTube

I have no issues with Kirk's defense. But he hadn't hit the last 2 years. He has potential and I like him, but I'd like to see some consistency on the batting end.

[Randle McMurphy]

People can vent all they want (and they should after a game like that), but they don’t come even close to a WS without the trade and without Kirk and Varsho playing at the extremely high level they did all season.

It remains an enormous win of a trade and the fact that those two are at least on the roster next season will really help their chances to get back there again.

Without Kirk and Varsho, this exact team gets to the WS sooner. Without Varsho, they win the WS sooner. Those are ... sadly, the facts.

They are lies, which I believe are the opposite of facts.

[brwnman]

varsho absolutely killed us this series

there’s no two ways about it

but please give me varsho every day over the light hitting gabbie moreno whose diamondbacks have never made it that far in the playoffs, and never will as long as he is their catcher.

moreno in the 2023 postseason - 101 wRC+
varsho in the 2025 postseason - 110 wRC+
kirk in the 2025 postseason - 129 wRC+

despite the horrid execution of both varsho and kirk last night, still would rather have both of them in October over “gabriel moreno”

and ofcourse this was a lie.

Varsho's wRC+ was 97 this postseason. and ready for this? -100wRC+ in 2023.

[Mehar]

Read on Twitter

Definitely MVP hitting numbers by Noodle Arm Varsho since Game 2 of the ALDS. Hope I never see him, Little, and IKF ever again in a Jays uniform. The Three Stooges belong together in another city with another pathetic franchise. Colorado, Pittsburgh, Chicago White Sox, or the Nationals would be great for The Three Stooges. Decline the arbitration numbers on all three of these, and wish them well in their next venture.

Never witnessed a more disgraceful hitting performance by one player in the World Series in all of my years of watching Baseball than Noodle Arm Varsho. Definitely the MVP of Choking with Men on Base. A man who singlehandedly cost this team a title with a record 13 Men left on Base with his Cricket Swings in the final two games. Good Riddance Choker. But according to Fan Boy Randle, his Man Crush just suffers from bad luck. I wonder what the exit velocity was on the Ground Ball he hit in the 9th?

[JaysRule25]

Guys, enough baiting Randle. You can post valid criticisms of Varsho here without making it personal.

We all have favourite players on teams.

[C Court]

Read on Twitter

You need more from your MVP in World Series games 6 and 7.

[Randle McMurphy]

Guys, enough baiting Randle. You can post valid criticisms of Varsho here without making it personal.

We all have favourite players on teams.

I don’t mind, let them vent. They all know the truth and that’s that we don’t have that kind of improbable run without either of them playing at the elite level they did all year. They led to the greatest Jays season in a generation.