Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22
bigfoot wrote:Good assessment on when to start playing the rookies heavy minutes. Key points, if Suns are not winning, teams need to see Allen, O'Neale, and Richards play in order to make a trade happen. Rookies time will bump up after 15 games and by trade deadline we should see plenty of them if the team is losing.
https://arizonasports.com/nba/phoenix-suns/khaman-maluach-playing/3600648/
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I don't know that he'd be any better than J Green next to Booker. And we don't really have the assets to get him obviously. I also wouldn't give up any of our young core with the exception of maybe Ighodaro as an inclusive trade piece.
I also wouldn't want to give up Mark Williams, but perhaps a 3 team trade with J Green, Richards and some combination of O'neale, Allen or Ighodaro included. And one team gets those players and we get a #2 threat back to play alongside of Booker as a number 2 offensive option.
lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I don't know that he'd be any better than J Green next to Booker. And we don't really have the assets to get him obviously. I also wouldn't give up any of our young core with the exception of maybe Ighodaro as an inclusive trade piece.
I also wouldn't want to give up Mark Williams, but perhaps a 3 team trade with J Green, Richards and some combination of O'neale, Allen or Ighodaro included. And one team gets those players and we get a #2 threat back to play alongside of Booker as a number 2 offensive option.
Extremely talented player but dudes got some mental red flags. I have no interest in him. I feel like we've already been stung by big name gambles in KD and Beal, I don't really want to get on that ride again for a while
Mr Puddles wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I don't know that he'd be any better than J Green next to Booker. And we don't really have the assets to get him obviously. I also wouldn't give up any of our young core with the exception of maybe Ighodaro as an inclusive trade piece.
I also wouldn't want to give up Mark Williams, but perhaps a 3 team trade with J Green, Richards and some combination of O'neale, Allen or Ighodaro included. And one team gets those players and we get a #2 threat back to play alongside of Booker as a number 2 offensive option.
Extremely talented player but dudes got some mental red flags. I have no interest in him. I feel like we've already been stung by big name gambles in KD and Beal, I don't really want to get on that ride again for a while
The General Board seems to think that Green + Richards is a realistic offer for him, although for me it seems unrealisticly low.
I'm kind of torn, on the one hand I agree with Weefishi's concern, on the other hand our front office's strategy seems to be to try to buy low on potentially high upside guys - Mark Williams, Kuminga, Jalen Green... Ja would fit that description.
sunsbum wrote:Brad Beal is lights out this season!!!
lilfishi22 wrote:Mr Puddles wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Extremely talented player but dudes got some mental red flags. I have no interest in him. I feel like we've already been stung by big name gambles in KD and Beal, I don't really want to get on that ride again for a while
The General Board seems to think that Green + Richards is a realistic offer for him, although for me it seems unrealisticly low.
I'm kind of torn, on the one hand I agree with Weefishi's concern, on the other hand our front office's strategy seems to be to try to buy low on potentially high upside guys - Mark Williams, Kuminga, Jalen Green... Ja would fit that description.
But I think our front office has also focused in on guys who don't really have character red flags. Maybe basketball red flags like William's injury history or Green's shot profile but from a character perspective, everyone on this team can be described as hardworking, plays hard, focused and generally good team guys, and that's by design. I don't know about Ja's work ethic but mentally, he just has some red flags that I'm not sure our front office is willing to accept...unless the price was just so low you almost have to give it a go.
He would add quite a bit of talent this team though, especially in a position where we're particularly light and don't really have anyone in there locked in long term. He's a fantastic clutch player where Book hasn't always been, he's a pretty good playmaker, he can get anywhere he wants on the court and he's a strong rebounder for his size/position. You can be confident with the ball in his hands. The other plus is that for a player of his calibre, he's locked into his contract (no play options) for another 2 seasons after this and by today's standard, on a relatively good rate. If I was to make a value comparison to someone who I see as being at least one tier below but similar types of players, I'd look at Fox who is about a year older, has similar weaknesses (can't shoot, poor defense) but Fox is owed $220m over 4 after this season whereas Morant only has $87m over 2 after this season. I personally wouldn't touch Fox because of his contract and I don't think he'd elevate this team enough to make up for it. Morant though....I could be talked into because he is a serious floor raiser.
Just a matter of whether we're willing to deal with all the BS that comes with him and I just don't think we are. I mean, the fact that we decided against signing CP3 who would've been a fantastic low risk addition to this team, and would be a huge asset to the young guys and even the rookie coach, goes to show just how much they don't want to bring in guys that could jeopardise Ott's approach and coaching of this team.
SunsRback4Good wrote:sunsbum wrote:Brad Beal is lights out this season!!!
6 ppg, 1 Reb, 1 assist on the season on 41% fg. You couldn’t ask for a better season from Bradley Beal!
lilfishi22 wrote:Mr Puddles wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Extremely talented player but dudes got some mental red flags. I have no interest in him. I feel like we've already been stung by big name gambles in KD and Beal, I don't really want to get on that ride again for a while
The General Board seems to think that Green + Richards is a realistic offer for him, although for me it seems unrealisticly low.
I'm kind of torn, on the one hand I agree with Weefishi's concern, on the other hand our front office's strategy seems to be to try to buy low on potentially high upside guys - Mark Williams, Kuminga, Jalen Green... Ja would fit that description.
But I think our front office has also focused in on guys who don't really have character red flags. Maybe basketball red flags like William's injury history or Green's shot profile but from a character perspective, everyone on this team can be described as hardworking, plays hard, focused and generally good team guys, and that's by design. I don't know about Ja's work ethic but mentally, he just has some red flags that I'm not sure our front office is willing to accept...unless the price was just so low you almost have to give it a go.
He would add quite a bit of talent this team though, especially in a position where we're particularly light and don't really have anyone in there locked in long term. He's a fantastic clutch player where Book hasn't always been, he's a pretty good playmaker, he can get anywhere he wants on the court and he's a strong rebounder for his size/position. You can be confident with the ball in his hands. The other plus is that for a player of his calibre, he's locked into his contract (no play options) for another 2 seasons after this and by today's standard, on a relatively good rate. If I was to make a value comparison to someone who I see as being at least one tier below but similar types of players, I'd look at Fox who is about a year older, has similar weaknesses (can't shoot, poor defense) but Fox is owed $220m over 4 after this season whereas Morant only has $87m over 2 after this season. I personally wouldn't touch Fox because of his contract and I don't think he'd elevate this team enough to make up for it. Morant though....I could be talked into because he is a serious floor raiser.
Just a matter of whether we're willing to deal with all the BS that comes with him and I just don't think we are. I mean, the fact that we decided against signing CP3 who would've been a fantastic low risk addition to this team, and would be a huge asset to the young guys and even the rookie coach, goes to show just how much they don't want to bring in guys that could jeopardise Ott's approach and coaching of this team.
Mr Puddles wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I don't know that he'd be any better than J Green next to Booker. And we don't really have the assets to get him obviously. I also wouldn't give up any of our young core with the exception of maybe Ighodaro as an inclusive trade piece.
I also wouldn't want to give up Mark Williams, but perhaps a 3 team trade with J Green, Richards and some combination of O'neale, Allen or Ighodaro included. And one team gets those players and we get a #2 threat back to play alongside of Booker as a number 2 offensive option.
Extremely talented player but dudes got some mental red flags. I have no interest in him. I feel like we've already been stung by big name gambles in KD and Beal, I don't really want to get on that ride again for a while
The General Board seems to think that Green + Richards is a realistic offer for him, although for me it seems unrealisticly low.
I'm kind of torn, on the one hand I agree with Weefishi's concern, on the other hand our front office's strategy seems to be to try to buy low on potentially high upside guys - Mark Williams, Kuminga, Jalen Green... Ja would fit that description.
Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Mr Puddles wrote:
The General Board seems to think that Green + Richards is a realistic offer for him, although for me it seems unrealisticly low.
I'm kind of torn, on the one hand I agree with Weefishi's concern, on the other hand our front office's strategy seems to be to try to buy low on potentially high upside guys - Mark Williams, Kuminga, Jalen Green... Ja would fit that description.
But I think our front office has also focused in on guys who don't really have character red flags. Maybe basketball red flags like William's injury history or Green's shot profile but from a character perspective, everyone on this team can be described as hardworking, plays hard, focused and generally good team guys, and that's by design. I don't know about Ja's work ethic but mentally, he just has some red flags that I'm not sure our front office is willing to accept...unless the price was just so low you almost have to give it a go.
He would add quite a bit of talent this team though, especially in a position where we're particularly light and don't really have anyone in there locked in long term. He's a fantastic clutch player where Book hasn't always been, he's a pretty good playmaker, he can get anywhere he wants on the court and he's a strong rebounder for his size/position. You can be confident with the ball in his hands. The other plus is that for a player of his calibre, he's locked into his contract (no play options) for another 2 seasons after this and by today's standard, on a relatively good rate. If I was to make a value comparison to someone who I see as being at least one tier below but similar types of players, I'd look at Fox who is about a year older, has similar weaknesses (can't shoot, poor defense) but Fox is owed $220m over 4 after this season whereas Morant only has $87m over 2 after this season. I personally wouldn't touch Fox because of his contract and I don't think he'd elevate this team enough to make up for it. Morant though....I could be talked into because he is a serious floor raiser.
Just a matter of whether we're willing to deal with all the BS that comes with him and I just don't think we are. I mean, the fact that we decided against signing CP3 who would've been a fantastic low risk addition to this team, and would be a huge asset to the young guys and even the rookie coach, goes to show just how much they don't want to bring in guys that could jeopardise Ott's approach and coaching of this team.
You make good points, and although I'd be more intrigued by getting involved in a 3 team trade where he goes elsewhere and we get other impact players and assets if at all possible. He does offer value in the ways that you've described.
I agree that I don't really see the suns having interest themselves in him. But if they could somehow parlay him ( to another team) into other intruiging assets or even a #2 option. I'd have to find that very intruiging.
Mr Puddles wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Mr Puddles wrote:
The General Board seems to think that Green + Richards is a realistic offer for him, although for me it seems unrealisticly low.
I'm kind of torn, on the one hand I agree with Weefishi's concern, on the other hand our front office's strategy seems to be to try to buy low on potentially high upside guys - Mark Williams, Kuminga, Jalen Green... Ja would fit that description.
But I think our front office has also focused in on guys who don't really have character red flags. Maybe basketball red flags like William's injury history or Green's shot profile but from a character perspective, everyone on this team can be described as hardworking, plays hard, focused and generally good team guys, and that's by design. I don't know about Ja's work ethic but mentally, he just has some red flags that I'm not sure our front office is willing to accept...unless the price was just so low you almost have to give it a go.
He would add quite a bit of talent this team though, especially in a position where we're particularly light and don't really have anyone in there locked in long term. He's a fantastic clutch player where Book hasn't always been, he's a pretty good playmaker, he can get anywhere he wants on the court and he's a strong rebounder for his size/position. You can be confident with the ball in his hands. The other plus is that for a player of his calibre, he's locked into his contract (no play options) for another 2 seasons after this and by today's standard, on a relatively good rate. If I was to make a value comparison to someone who I see as being at least one tier below but similar types of players, I'd look at Fox who is about a year older, has similar weaknesses (can't shoot, poor defense) but Fox is owed $220m over 4 after this season whereas Morant only has $87m over 2 after this season. I personally wouldn't touch Fox because of his contract and I don't think he'd elevate this team enough to make up for it. Morant though....I could be talked into because he is a serious floor raiser.
Just a matter of whether we're willing to deal with all the BS that comes with him and I just don't think we are. I mean, the fact that we decided against signing CP3 who would've been a fantastic low risk addition to this team, and would be a huge asset to the young guys and even the rookie coach, goes to show just how much they don't want to bring in guys that could jeopardise Ott's approach and coaching of this team.
Kuminga doesn't really fit that description though. I do think that if Ja can be acquired for pennies on the dollar, the Suns will talk to the Grizzlies.
Many here had hindsight biased complaints that we paid top dollar to get Durant instead of pursuing Kyrie for a bargain. Their situations are comparable IMO.
If our medical staff can procure the same surgeon who gave Kyrie his brain transplant, then Morant could be worth the risk.
SunsRback4Good wrote:sunsbum wrote:Brad Beal is lights out this season!!!
6 ppg, 1 Reb, 1 assist on the season on 41% fg. You couldn’t ask for a better season from Bradley Beal!
AtheJ415 wrote:Thank god we are done with the Beal and KD era so I can look forward to watching games again. I will forever hate both of them
lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:But I think our front office has also focused in on guys who don't really have character red flags. Maybe basketball red flags like William's injury history or Green's shot profile but from a character perspective, everyone on this team can be described as hardworking, plays hard, focused and generally good team guys, and that's by design. I don't know about Ja's work ethic but mentally, he just has some red flags that I'm not sure our front office is willing to accept...unless the price was just so low you almost have to give it a go.
He would add quite a bit of talent this team though, especially in a position where we're particularly light and don't really have anyone in there locked in long term. He's a fantastic clutch player where Book hasn't always been, he's a pretty good playmaker, he can get anywhere he wants on the court and he's a strong rebounder for his size/position. You can be confident with the ball in his hands. The other plus is that for a player of his calibre, he's locked into his contract (no play options) for another 2 seasons after this and by today's standard, on a relatively good rate. If I was to make a value comparison to someone who I see as being at least one tier below but similar types of players, I'd look at Fox who is about a year older, has similar weaknesses (can't shoot, poor defense) but Fox is owed $220m over 4 after this season whereas Morant only has $87m over 2 after this season. I personally wouldn't touch Fox because of his contract and I don't think he'd elevate this team enough to make up for it. Morant though....I could be talked into because he is a serious floor raiser.
Just a matter of whether we're willing to deal with all the BS that comes with him and I just don't think we are. I mean, the fact that we decided against signing CP3 who would've been a fantastic low risk addition to this team, and would be a huge asset to the young guys and even the rookie coach, goes to show just how much they don't want to bring in guys that could jeopardise Ott's approach and coaching of this team.
You make good points, and although I'd be more intrigued by getting involved in a 3 team trade where he goes elsewhere and we get other impact players and assets if at all possible. He does offer value in the ways that you've described.
I agree that I don't really see the suns having interest themselves in him. But if they could somehow parlay him ( to another team) into other intruiging assets or even a #2 option. I'd have to find that very intruiging.
The team that is the go-between for a 3 team trade is almost never the one who initiates it. 3 team trades only ever happens if two teams are already sort of interested in trading something with each other but don't have quite enough, that's when a 3rd team gets roped in.