The Dallas Mavericks now have the 4th best defense and the 30th best offense, will defense win them the championship?

[Mavrelous]

Luka has never led a team to a championship. He still has a lot of time to do that. The Mavs, who knew him best, traded him because they didn't believe he was capable of doing it.

Some people really have some of the worst takes. There are not many players good enough to lead a team to a finals in a talented West who are also routinely top 3 in MVP voting.

If you were bold enough to trade a player of this calibre (which I would not do unless the player really wanted out) then at least get a way better package like adding Reaves in the trade.

Also, AD has certainly not lead any teams to the finals as the number 1, so this premise also does not make sense.

What I said was just factual. The Mavs did lose confidence in the long-term vision with Luka on a supermax. Whether it was the right move, history will be the judge. I can understand why Mavs fans were upset. Are you suggesting Mavs should have asked for AD + Reaves in return for Luka? Lakers would never have agreed to that. The debate about what Luka could have fetched in an open bidding war around the league is highly speculative. I do not think it would have played out that way. Luka could have attempted to dictate his destination, thus stripping the Mavs of leverage. Just look at how KD did the same to the Suns. Would you have preferred to get a bunch of picks but no elite players in return?

Whether the Mavs lost faith or not, at least 25 franchises would love to have the player they have lost faith in, wait 3 months, sign the supermax then you get all the leverage back.
You can't start from a false premise and then claim what followed is true.

[Larry Ellison]

Some people really have some of the worst takes. There are not many players good enough to lead a team to a finals in a talented West who are also routinely top 3 in MVP voting.

If you were bold enough to trade a player of this calibre (which I would not do unless the player really wanted out) then at least get a way better package like adding Reaves in the trade.

Also, AD has certainly not lead any teams to the finals as the number 1, so this premise also does not make sense.

What I said was just factual. The Mavs did lose confidence in the long-term vision with Luka on a supermax. Whether it was the right move, history will be the judge. I can understand why Mavs fans were upset. Are you suggesting Mavs should have asked for AD + Reaves in return for Luka? Lakers would never have agreed to that. The debate about what Luka could have fetched in an open bidding war around the league is highly speculative. I do not think it would have played out that way. Luka could have attempted to dictate his destination, thus stripping the Mavs of leverage. Just look at how KD did the same to the Suns. Would you have preferred to get a bunch of picks but no elite players in return?

Whether the Mavs lost faith or not, at least 25 franchises would love to have the player they have lost faith in, wait 3 months, sign the supermax then you get all the leverage back.
You can't start from a false premise and then claim what followed is true.

That's a fair point. If they gave him the supermax, it at least would have ensured team control.

Edit: It's a shame we haven't yet had a chance to see what Mavs can do with a fully healthy team. I look forward to Kyrie's return.

[Calvin Klein]

Some people really have some of the worst takes. There are not many players good enough to lead a team to a finals in a talented West who are also routinely top 3 in MVP voting.

If you were bold enough to trade a player of this calibre (which I would not do unless the player really wanted out) then at least get a way better package like adding Reaves in the trade.

Also, AD has certainly not lead any teams to the finals as the number 1, so this premise also does not make sense.

What I said was just factual. The Mavs did lose confidence in the long-term vision with Luka on a supermax. Whether it was the right move, history will be the judge. I can understand why Mavs fans were upset. Are you suggesting Mavs should have asked for AD + Reaves in return for Luka? Lakers would never have agreed to that. The debate about what Luka could have fetched in an open bidding war around the league is highly speculative. I do not think it would have played out that way. Luka could have attempted to dictate his destination, thus stripping the Mavs of leverage. Just look at how KD did the same to the Suns. Would you have preferred to get a bunch of picks but no elite players in return?

They never told Luka, how would he be able to dictate his destination?

Luka could stop playing today and it still is one of the worst trades ever because at the moment of the trade almost every team would have given everything they could to get him. So "history will not be the judge". No matter what happens next or what has already happened after the trade. it won't make it any better.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Sadly you don't win with defense alone and have to actually have an above average offense also, but I guess you have to start somewhere. PJ Washington as your second leading scorer is also not a recipe for being a good offense, and that's not shade towards him, just the reality

Very true. The Kyrie injury, which happened after the Luka trade, was devastating to the Mavs. Their entire team building strategy relied upon Kyrie shouldering a heavy load offensively to balance the defensive focus at other positions. Kyrie would have been an All Star this year. Flagg is a great talent but he is a rookie and not a PG. It appears Kidd has realized he has no choice but to give D-Lo minutes.

Team building around Kyries carrying a heavy load is crazy. dude is often injured and not even interested in basketball half the season.

This isn't NBA2k

[Larry Ellison]

Some people really have some of the worst takes. There are not many players good enough to lead a team to a finals in a talented West who are also routinely top 3 in MVP voting.

If you were bold enough to trade a player of this calibre (which I would not do unless the player really wanted out) then at least get a way better package like adding Reaves in the trade.

Also, AD has certainly not lead any teams to the finals as the number 1, so this premise also does not make sense.

What I said was just factual. The Mavs did lose confidence in the long-term vision with Luka on a supermax. Whether it was the right move, history will be the judge. I can understand why Mavs fans were upset. Are you suggesting Mavs should have asked for AD + Reaves in return for Luka? Lakers would never have agreed to that. The debate about what Luka could have fetched in an open bidding war around the league is highly speculative. I do not think it would have played out that way. Luka could have attempted to dictate his destination, thus stripping the Mavs of leverage. Just look at how KD did the same to the Suns. Would you have preferred to get a bunch of picks but no elite players in return?

They never told Luka, how would he be able to dictate his destination?

Luka could stop playing today and it still is one of the worst trades ever because at the moment of the trade almost every team would have given everything they could to get him. So "history will not be the judge". No matter what happens next or what has already happened after the trade. it won't make it any better.

It would have leaked if DAL shopped him all around the league.

[bonita_the_frog]

Sadly you don't win with defense alone and have to actually have an above average offense also, but I guess you have to start somewhere. PJ Washington as your second leading scorer is also not a recipe for being a good offense, and that's not shade towards him, just the reality

Very true. The Kyrie injury, which happened after the Luka trade, was devastating to the Mavs. Their entire team building strategy relied upon Kyrie shouldering a heavy load offensively to balance the defensive focus at other positions. Kyrie would have been an All Star this year. Flagg is a great talent but he is a rookie and not a PG. It appears Kidd has realized he has no choice but to give D-Lo minutes.

Team building around Kyries carrying a heavy load is crazy. dude is often injured and not even interested in basketball half the season.

This isn't NBA2k

But they only need Kyrie in a playoff series, they don't need to build around him.
Already have great defense and AD, its enough to make the playoffs (especially with Kyrie playing the 2nd half of the season), so just need Kyrie for the OKC series.

[41Dirk41]

Gobert worths 6 FRPs
Bane worths 4 FRPs

So... Doncic? Come on guys.

Lakers could have gotten 4-6 picks easily for AD. That was his value. So if Dallas wanted picks, they could have simply flipped him or got another team involved in the trade.

Show me a trade in NBA history where any team got both an established star player and a handful of picks. If it exists, I bet it was lopsided the other way, like SGA for PG. Though SGA wasn't even a star yet when that trade happened, while AD was already an established all-star and champion.

Show me a trade in NBA history where a generational superstar in his prime was traded 9 months later he leaded his team to the Finals...

[41Dirk41]

Sadly you don't win with defense alone and have to actually have an above average offense also, but I guess you have to start somewhere. PJ Washington as your second leading scorer is also not a recipe for being a good offense, and that's not shade towards him, just the reality

Very true. The Kyrie injury, which happened after the Luka trade, was devastating to the Mavs. Their entire team building strategy relied upon Kyrie shouldering a heavy load offensively to balance the defensive focus at other positions. Kyrie would have been an All Star this year. Flagg is a great talent but he is a rookie and not a PG. It appears Kidd has realized he has no choice but to give D-Lo minutes.

Team building around Kyries carrying a heavy load is crazy. dude is often injured and not even interested in basketball half the season.

This isn't NBA2k

Agree.

Kyrie leaded a team for 5 games and everybody here know how it ended... This Mavs team is the same that was destroyed in the play in finals plus a 18yo kid.

It's a no where team with 10 timelines. Can't work.

[Larry Ellison]

I will defer to Mavs fans about Kyrie. I have always viewed him as an extremely talented player on the court. Obviously, he has been a bit loony off the court. Mavs really miss him right now. The league is more entertaining when stars are healthy.

[Calvin Klein]

What I said was just factual. The Mavs did lose confidence in the long-term vision with Luka on a supermax. Whether it was the right move, history will be the judge. I can understand why Mavs fans were upset. Are you suggesting Mavs should have asked for AD + Reaves in return for Luka? Lakers would never have agreed to that. The debate about what Luka could have fetched in an open bidding war around the league is highly speculative. I do not think it would have played out that way. Luka could have attempted to dictate his destination, thus stripping the Mavs of leverage. Just look at how KD did the same to the Suns. Would you have preferred to get a bunch of picks but no elite players in return?

They never told Luka, how would he be able to dictate his destination?

Luka could stop playing today and it still is one of the worst trades ever because at the moment of the trade almost every team would have given everything they could to get him. So "history will not be the judge". No matter what happens next or what has already happened after the trade. it won't make it any better.

It would have leaked if DAL shopped him all around the league.

And they STILL would have been offered everything.

[Larry Ellison]

They never told Luka, how would he be able to dictate his destination?

Luka could stop playing today and it still is one of the worst trades ever because at the moment of the trade almost every team would have given everything they could to get him. So "history will not be the judge". No matter what happens next or what has already happened after the trade. it won't make it any better.

It would have leaked if DAL shopped him all around the league.

And they STILL would have been offered everything.

Any team making an offer would have required assurances from Luka that he would extend with his new team. Let's just agree to disagree.

[Lalouie]

they are now 2-5,,,,,,,,,,,,,so yes

[Bob8]

Very true. The Kyrie injury, which happened after the Luka trade, was devastating to the Mavs. Their entire team building strategy relied upon Kyrie shouldering a heavy load offensively to balance the defensive focus at other positions. Kyrie would have been an All Star this year. Flagg is a great talent but he is a rookie and not a PG. It appears Kidd has realized he has no choice but to give D-Lo minutes.

Team building around Kyries carrying a heavy load is crazy. dude is often injured and not even interested in basketball half the season.

This isn't NBA2k

But they only need Kyrie in a playoff series, they don't need to build around him.
Already have great defense and AD, its enough to make the playoffs (especially with Kyrie playing the 2nd half of the season), so just need Kyrie for the OKC series.

They need someone to create for others, because nobody can't create anything, that's not Kyrie. You can't transform the worst offense in the league in good one with addition of Iso player alone.

And when talking about Kyrie, he will be out for a year, when he returns. You people honestly believe he will immediately be his best version? And then you have time restrictions, load management...

[mpoo_sin]

This team is trash. Just like Harrison wanted.

[Ice Man]

This team is trash. Just like Harrison wanted.

If the plan is to get another high lottery pick, the Mavs have both the team and coach to get that job done. Jason Kidd has never won a thing without having Luka to roll out the ball to, and he never will, unless he gets another PG at the level of Luka who can do what Kidd should be doing, namely to organize the offense.

I normally don't think that NBA coaches win or lose games, but Kidd is an exception. He is brutal.

[dirkdiggler4177]

It will be interesting to see how this team is playing once the centers are back. Like the last two games have been much better on offense, but lacking size inside. The first games were filled with silly turnovers.

[Mavrelous]

It will be interesting to see how this team is playing once the centers are back. Like the last two games have been much better on offense, but lacking size inside. The first games were filled with silly turnovers.

They are better because the centers are out, Flagg/PJ as forwards with a center is better than AD at the 4 that kills all spacing and offensive creativity.

[mpoo_sin]

It will be interesting to see how this team is playing once the centers are back. Like the last two games have been much better on offense, but lacking size inside. The first games were filled with silly turnovers.

They are better because the centers are out, Flagg/PJ as forwards with a center is better than AD at the 4 that kills all spacing and offensive creativity.

I die a little every time Davis launches one of his famous long 2s. (Just to let the ball hit the rim with a loud "clang").

[bonita_the_frog]

Team building around Kyries carrying a heavy load is crazy. dude is often injured and not even interested in basketball half the season.

This isn't NBA2k

But they only need Kyrie in a playoff series, they don't need to build around him.
Already have great defense and AD, its enough to make the playoffs (especially with Kyrie playing the 2nd half of the season), so just need Kyrie for the OKC series.

They need someone to create for others, because nobody can't create anything, that's not Kyrie. You can't transform the worst offense in the league in good one with addition of Iso player alone.

And when talking about Kyrie, he will be out for a year, when he returns. You people honestly believe he will immediately be his best version? And then you have time restrictions, load management...

No i never believed Kyrie would return to his best, just that he'd give them a player who can score off the the dribble and create his own shot.
I've seen teams winning without a facilitator, so they don't really need Kyrie to play the traditional Point Guard role.
Look at Houston, the 3rd highest scoring team in the NBA despite no facilitator.
Any team with AD and Kyrie and great defense, will go far.

[Bob8]

But they only need Kyrie in a playoff series, they don't need to build around him.
Already have great defense and AD, its enough to make the playoffs (especially with Kyrie playing the 2nd half of the season), so just need Kyrie for the OKC series.

They need someone to create for others, because nobody can't create anything, that's not Kyrie. You can't transform the worst offense in the league in good one with addition of Iso player alone.

And when talking about Kyrie, he will be out for a year, when he returns. You people honestly believe he will immediately be his best version? And then you have time restrictions, load management...

No i never believed Kyrie would return to his best, just that he'd give them a player who can score off the the dribble and create his own shot.
I've seen teams winning without a facilitator, so they don't really need Kyrie to play the traditional Point Guard role.
Look at Houston, the 3rd highest scoring team in the NBA despite no facilitator.
Any team with AD and Kyrie and great defense, will go far.

I don't believe you understand how bad Mavs roster is in creating for themselves or others. They have the worst offensive rtg for the reason. This team was built for Luka, who was the whole system. Now you have just bunch of role players, who can't create anything.

Rockets have Sengun, who can shoot and playmake. Mavs have Lively and Gafford who can't do either.