Varsho/Moreno/Kirk Discussion Thread

[Randle McMurphy]

Talk about lacking self awareness. Maybe it’s not Varsho, but you.

No please, we need to hear more about shifting goal posts by referencing Kirk when I primarily referenced Kirk in my first post on the trade the day it was made lol

Why don't you talk about you shifting the goal posts on the Moreno + Gurriel for Varsho trade? It was a two for one deal, but just not in your mind.

Arizona received two quality players for Varsho, but you decided that Gurriel could not be counted as an asset in evaluating the trade because he became a free agent at the end of season - even though he re-signed with Arizona.

If we follow your convoluted logic, then we shouldn't count Joe Carter's full tenure as a Blue Jay as a success (and the trade that brought him here) because Joe Carter re-signed as a FREE AGENT with Toronto in 1992. LIke you said with Gurriel Jr- anyone could have signed Joe as a free agent before he "touched 'em all". So Pat Gillick's great trade didn't count in 1993!

Two quality players? They traded one year of Gurriel, which had very little value at all considering he's a bad defensive outfielder with only a career 109 wRC+. After that, he became a free agent and he was open to anybody to sign (including the Jays, who could have easily brought him back had they chose to). Arizona then gave him a really bad contract and would trade him away for a bag of balls at this point if they could.

If you're really hanging your hat on Lourdes to redeem this one (who barely had any value when the Jays dumped him and has negative value now), you know you've already lost.

[Randle McMurphy]

False analogy. There are 3 outfielder spots and 1 catcher spot. DBacks did not have to trade any of their outfielders and did not "choose" Carroll over Varsho. In contrast, the Jays had to trade one of their catchers to settle on a long-term option for the position going into 2023 and chose Kirk over Moreno in doing so.

But you know this already.

It is a false analogy because it destroys your narrative. Look back at the interview the Diamondbacks GM did in March, 2023. I remember watching a clip of that. Forgot who the writer was. He said they had a surplus of Outfielders which was a strength. Teams were calling about their Outfielders. They wanted to deal one of them to acquire a high potential Catcher. The Diamondbacks main priority according to him was to "upgrade their Catching position by dealing one of their Outfielders".

They loved Moreno and Toronto needed an Outfielder. It came down to analyzing which Outfielders they wanted to keep, and made the determination that Corbin Carroll was who they wanted to keep long-term in the fold over your Man Crush Varsho. Not my words. They gave Carroll an 8 year extension for 111 million in March, 2023. The words directly from the mouth of Arizona GM. But I guess you know better living in your delusions and fantasy world.

You nailed it. We are supposed to count Kirk as a win in this trade for the Blue Jays, but we can't count Corbin Carroll and Gurriel Jr. as wins for the Diamondbacks because Randle said so.

The Jays got the best player in the trade. The Jays chose the better catcher of the two. The Jays won the American League and had their best season in three decades due to their enormous contributions (they were #2 and #3 in WAR rate for the 2025 Jays).

In what world is any of that not an enormous win for the Jays?

[Randle McMurphy]

To be fair though, he also gave back a run on defense due to his arm. The run that Bassitt gave up on that shallow sac fly.

I hope his arm is decent next season.

His catch saved the entire game in the moment; it was bases loaded with one out and Scherzer was getting absolutely destroyed in that inning with no sign of anybody even warming in the bullpen. A Teoscar double there clears the bases and the Dodgers likely take a 4-3 lead in that inning if not for the catch.

That sac fly run was also scoring on any of our outfielders except maybe Barger (who has probably the strongest arm of any outfielder in baseball). And Varsho did have rotator cuff surgery a year ago and his velocity did improve significantly over the course of the season. Maybe it'll never be back to the way it was, but we'll see next year.

We wouldn’t have needed to go 7 games had the bug-eyed biyatch made decent contact with the **** ball in game 6. But yeah you conveniently leave that out cuz it doesn’t suit your narrative. Keep digging the hole deeper bud.

100 mph off the bat doesn't pass for decent contact now in this delusional hater's world lol

[GameChannel]

His catch saved the entire game in the moment; it was bases loaded with one out and Scherzer was getting absolutely destroyed in that inning with no sign of anybody even warming in the bullpen. A Teoscar double there clears the bases and the Dodgers likely take a 4-3 lead in that inning if not for the catch.

That sac fly run was also scoring on any of our outfielders except maybe Barger (who has probably the strongest arm of any outfielder in baseball). And Varsho did have rotator cuff surgery a year ago and his velocity did improve significantly over the course of the season. Maybe it'll never be back to the way it was, but we'll see next year.

We wouldn’t have needed to go 7 games had the bug-eyed biyatch made decent contact with the **** ball in game 6. But yeah you conveniently leave that out cuz it doesn’t suit your narrative. Keep digging the hole deeper bud.

100 mph off the bat doesn't pass for decent contact now in this delusional hater's world lol

Ppl! We counting hard hit infield outs straight to the fielder as wins now! The delusion is **** ridiculous.

[C Court]

No please, we need to hear more about shifting goal posts by referencing Kirk when I primarily referenced Kirk in my first post on the trade the day it was made lol

Why don't you talk about you shifting the goal posts on the Moreno + Gurriel for Varsho trade? It was a two for one deal, but just not in your mind.

Arizona received two quality players for Varsho, but you decided that Gurriel could not be counted as an asset in evaluating the trade because he became a free agent at the end of season - even though he re-signed with Arizona.

If we follow your convoluted logic, then we shouldn't count Joe Carter's full tenure as a Blue Jay as a success (and the trade that brought him here) because Joe Carter re-signed as a FREE AGENT with Toronto in 1992. LIke you said with Gurriel Jr- anyone could have signed Joe as a free agent before he "touched 'em all". So Pat Gillick's great trade didn't count in 1993!

Two quality players? They traded one year of Gurriel, which had very little value at all considering he's a bad defensive outfielder with only a career 109 wRC+. After that, he became a free agent and he was open to anybody to sign (including the Jays, who could have easily brought him back had they chose to). Arizona then gave him a really bad contract and would trade him away for a bag of balls at this point if they could.

If you're really hanging your hat on Lourdes to redeem this one (who barely had any value when the Jays dumped him and has negative value now), you know you've already lost.

Once again, twisting my words and moving the goal posts. But that's what always you do. Its one of your many unsavoury posting traits which led to you being banned from RealGM in the first place before reappearing as Randle - like you were fooling us.

I am not hanging my hat on Lourdes. I am only pointing out that he rightfuilly should be considered when we're evaluating the trade with Arizona. For some reason you want to exclude Gurriel Jr from the conversation which makes no sense to everyone not named Randle.

Gurriel Jr was a valuable piece in the Diamondbacks 2023 playoff run. In the 2023 post season, Gurriel Jr hit .273 with 3 HR, 11 RBI and a .744 OPS. While in the 2025 post season, Varsho hit .227 with 3 HR, 10 RBI and a .711 OPS. So your 'trade winner' Varsho performed marginally worse in the post season than Gurriel Jr. who you deem as having barely any value.

[C Court]

It is a false analogy because it destroys your narrative. Look back at the interview the Diamondbacks GM did in March, 2023. I remember watching a clip of that. Forgot who the writer was. He said they had a surplus of Outfielders which was a strength. Teams were calling about their Outfielders. They wanted to deal one of them to acquire a high potential Catcher. The Diamondbacks main priority according to him was to "upgrade their Catching position by dealing one of their Outfielders".

They loved Moreno and Toronto needed an Outfielder. It came down to analyzing which Outfielders they wanted to keep, and made the determination that Corbin Carroll was who they wanted to keep long-term in the fold over your Man Crush Varsho. Not my words. They gave Carroll an 8 year extension for 111 million in March, 2023. The words directly from the mouth of Arizona GM. But I guess you know better living in your delusions and fantasy world.

You nailed it. We are supposed to count Kirk as a win in this trade for the Blue Jays, but we can't count Corbin Carroll and Gurriel Jr. as wins for the Diamondbacks because Randle said so.

The Jays got the best player in the trade. The Jays chose the better catcher of the two. The Jays won the American League and had their best season in three decades due to their enormous contributions (they were #2 and #3 in WAR rate for the 2025 Jays).

In what world is any of that not an enormous win for the Jays?

Oh man, you got me there!

Varsho’s presence in the line-up is pretty much the only reason (or one of the primary reasons) the Jays won the American League and had their best season in decades. I'm sure we can prove your hypothesis by simply looking at how the Jays winning percentage dropped dramatically when Varsho was out of the line-up and how it significantly surged when Varsho was on the field.

Except, the facts are that the Blue Jays win percentage is virtually identical, with or without Varsho in the line-up.

Without Varsho - 52-39 - .571
With Varsho - 51-38 - .573

So Varsho didn't significantly change the Blue Jays win percentage when he was in the line-up. The Jays real win/loss record means more than your favorite fantasy WAR numbers

[brwnman]

The goal posts have been shifting for two years. This started as a simple 'Varsho in, Moreno, Gurriel out' trade thread. Then he made the first goal post shift and turned it into a Varsho/Moreno/Kirk thread, even though Kirk was never part of the trade.

I actually like Varsho at times. But gaslighting us that Varsho is an MVP calibre player is ridiculous. Then gloating every time Varsho does anything good just makes most of us want to avoid this board. When I suggested this trade could be viewed as a win for both teams, he wasn't having it. So the nonsense continues.

The Jays literally chose Kirk over Moreno as their long-term C in making the trade; they had the option to move either one of them and traded Moreno instead. Protest as much as you want to, but Kirk and his enormous success are a part of the trade evaluation as much as any player actually in it. That's been the case from day 1 of the trade (and day 1 of the thread). There was no "goal post shift" in that respect.

And yeah, what a terrible thing to celebrate the success of one of the team's best and most valuable players who just contributed massively to the Jays' best season in 32 years. Better to just denigrate him senselessly and irrationally for years on end like the Varsho haters in this thread.

Oh, the nonsense continues all right...from those who remain unwilling to admit that the Jays' FO actually made the right move here.

Jays didn’t choose Kirk. D’Backs did. Jays wanted to move Kirk over Moreno, but D’Backs wanted Moreno to make the deal. Jays folded instead of looking for a better player than Varsho.

[brwnman]

Dodgers have the lead in the 4th inning of game 7 if Varsho doesn't save the season then and there with a ridiculous catch on one of the hardest hit balls of the series. At least if he missed it we would have been saved from witnessing a historic Hoffman choke.

To be fair though, he also gave back a run on defense due to his arm. The run that Bassitt gave up on that shallow sac fly.

I hope his arm is decent next season.

His catch saved the entire game in the moment; it was bases loaded with one out and Scherzer was getting absolutely destroyed in that inning with no sign of anybody even warming in the bullpen. A Teoscar double there clears the bases and the Dodgers likely take a 4-3 lead in that inning if not for the catch.

That sac fly run was also scoring on any of our outfielders except maybe Barger (who has probably the strongest arm of any outfielder in baseball). And Varsho did have rotator cuff surgery a year ago and his velocity did improve significantly over the course of the season. Maybe it'll never be back to the way it was, but we'll see next year.

If Varsho took it on a bounce, it’d only be one run - not 3.
It’s only 3 cause you’re assuming his dive makes him miss the ball and it goes by him.


Straw, Lukes, Barger all throw out the runner at home from that position. But since we’re playing the hypothetical game, Varsho threw a pop-up on a sac fly to home (really it was somewhere in the infield) and if Teo tags up, he scores on the hit following that out. There was no need for the throw home there, Varsho simply doesn’t have the arm for it. He cost us way more than he helped us.

[Randle McMurphy]

Why don't you talk about you shifting the goal posts on the Moreno + Gurriel for Varsho trade? It was a two for one deal, but just not in your mind.

Arizona received two quality players for Varsho, but you decided that Gurriel could not be counted as an asset in evaluating the trade because he became a free agent at the end of season - even though he re-signed with Arizona.

If we follow your convoluted logic, then we shouldn't count Joe Carter's full tenure as a Blue Jay as a success (and the trade that brought him here) because Joe Carter re-signed as a FREE AGENT with Toronto in 1992. LIke you said with Gurriel Jr- anyone could have signed Joe as a free agent before he "touched 'em all". So Pat Gillick's great trade didn't count in 1993!

Two quality players? They traded one year of Gurriel, which had very little value at all considering he's a bad defensive outfielder with only a career 109 wRC+. After that, he became a free agent and he was open to anybody to sign (including the Jays, who could have easily brought him back had they chose to). Arizona then gave him a really bad contract and would trade him away for a bag of balls at this point if they could.

If you're really hanging your hat on Lourdes to redeem this one (who barely had any value when the Jays dumped him and has negative value now), you know you've already lost.

Once again, twisting my words and moving the goal posts. But that's what always you do. Its one of your many unsavoury posting traits which led to you being banned from RealGM in the first place before reappearing as Randle - like you were fooling us.

I am not hanging my hat on Lourdes. I am only pointing out that he rightfuilly should be considered when we're evaluating the trade with Arizona. For some reason you want to exclude Gurriel Jr from the conversation which makes no sense to everyone not named Randle.

Gurriel Jr was a valuable piece in the Diamondbacks 2023 playoff run. In the 2023 post season, Gurriel Jr hit .273 with 3 HR, 11 RBI and a .744 OPS. While in the 2025 post season, Varsho hit .227 with 3 HR, 10 RBI and a .711 OPS. So your 'trade winner' Varsho performed marginally worse in the post season than Gurriel Jr. who you deem as having barely any value.

Lourdes’ one mediocre season under Arizona’s control was and has been considered back in 2023. Then he became a free agent and the DBacks handed him a terrible contract that nobody in baseball would willingly take on right now.

Even if you’re giving Arizona credit for more than one year of Lourdes control as part of the trade (which makes little sense), this isn’t a point in Arizona’s favour, which is why even the most ardent Varsho haters haven’t brought him up in this thread for over a year now.

Try again.

[Randle McMurphy]

You nailed it. We are supposed to count Kirk as a win in this trade for the Blue Jays, but we can't count Corbin Carroll and Gurriel Jr. as wins for the Diamondbacks because Randle said so.

The Jays got the best player in the trade. The Jays chose the better catcher of the two. The Jays won the American League and had their best season in three decades due to their enormous contributions (they were #2 and #3 in WAR rate for the 2025 Jays).

In what world is any of that not an enormous win for the Jays?

Oh man, you got me there!

Varsho’s presence in the line-up is pretty much the only reason (or one of the primary reasons) the Jays won the American League and had their best season in decades. I'm sure we can prove your hypothesis by simply looking at how the Jays winning percentage dropped dramatically when Varsho was out of the line-up and how it significantly surged when Varsho was on the field.

Except, the facts are that the Blue Jays win percentage is virtually identical, with or without Varsho in the line-up.

Without Varsho - 52-39 - .571
With Varsho - 51-38 - .573

So Varsho didn't significantly change the Blue Jays win percentage when he was in the line-up. The Jays real win/loss record means more than your favorite fantasy WAR numbers

So your argument is that because the team also was good without Varsho that he wasn’t one of their most valuable players? What if Vlad or Springer just happened to hit better in the games he was missing? What if Hoffman had one of his good stretches where he wasn’t blowing games twice a week in that time (and he did, see April)? Does that get attributed to a lack of Varsho?

Feels like you could use a refresher course on basic logic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Take a readthrough and come back with something that actually proves your point (which is apparently that Varsho wasn’t a very good or valuable player for the Jays while hitting 23 HR in 70+ games and playing elite CF defense with the 3rd best WAR rate on the team). Good luck.

[Randle McMurphy]

The goal posts have been shifting for two years. This started as a simple 'Varsho in, Moreno, Gurriel out' trade thread. Then he made the first goal post shift and turned it into a Varsho/Moreno/Kirk thread, even though Kirk was never part of the trade.

I actually like Varsho at times. But gaslighting us that Varsho is an MVP calibre player is ridiculous. Then gloating every time Varsho does anything good just makes most of us want to avoid this board. When I suggested this trade could be viewed as a win for both teams, he wasn't having it. So the nonsense continues.

The Jays literally chose Kirk over Moreno as their long-term C in making the trade; they had the option to move either one of them and traded Moreno instead. Protest as much as you want to, but Kirk and his enormous success are a part of the trade evaluation as much as any player actually in it. That's been the case from day 1 of the trade (and day 1 of the thread). There was no "goal post shift" in that respect.

And yeah, what a terrible thing to celebrate the success of one of the team's best and most valuable players who just contributed massively to the Jays' best season in 32 years. Better to just denigrate him senselessly and irrationally for years on end like the Varsho haters in this thread.

Oh, the nonsense continues all right...from those who remain unwilling to admit that the Jays' FO actually made the right move here.

Jays didn’t choose Kirk. D’Backs did. Jays wanted to move Kirk over Moreno, but D’Backs wanted Moreno to make the deal. Jays folded instead of looking for a better player than Varsho.

Now we are just spewing lies here with no basis in fact I see.

Eh, it’s worth a shot I guess in this post-truth world

[Randle McMurphy]

Love the deal. Not sure the Jays will win out on pure value a decade down the road, but I also don't particularly care about that (nor should they given the situation they're in). They had a surplus of quality major league catchers and going into the 2023 season with all three of them would have been a major waste of resources for a team that needs to contend and win. In making this trade, they've also made the choice to go with Kirk long-term at the position over Moreno (and after the year Kirk had, it's hard not to be a believer in him as one of the best Cs in baseball for the foreseeable future).

Of course, I suspect they would have wanted to trade Jansen the most, but likely found that he wasn't garnering the interest or the impact player needed to move a player of Jansen's quality (he's arguably a top 5 catcher in the game right now himself). Instead, they've moved Moreno (a worse player than either Kirk or Jansen at the moment) for a guy who is one of the best outfield defenders in baseball under control for cheap during our core's window (Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Springer/Manoah/Gausman). Varsho will significantly improve this team over the next few years even if he never takes a further leap with the bat. Outside of shortstop, the Jays will have an elite defensive team at virtually every position next season. A far cry from the absolute clown show they've thrown out there over the past few years.

It's interesting that it feels like the Jays have made it a goal to change this team's identity and culture heading into 2023 with the move outs of Lourdes and Teo. Sure, they won 90 games last year but there have been times (especially during the Montoyo era) where this didn't feel like a serious baseball team. That may be changing now.

This post (made the day of the trade) looks even better with each passing season.

Still no response to how on the mark that original post was (and still is), huh? What a shocker.

[s e n s i]

The goal posts have been shifting for two years. This started as a simple 'Varsho in, Moreno, Gurriel out' trade thread. Then he made the first goal post shift and turned it into a Varsho/Moreno/Kirk thread, even though Kirk was never part of the trade.

I actually like Varsho at times. But gaslighting us that Varsho is an MVP calibre player is ridiculous.

but the following that's been said in this thread about moreno is not ridiculous?

- superstar
- generational catcher
- carrying his team to World Series
- pudge 2.0
- comparable to yadier molina
- dbacks legitimate contender for years to come because of moreno
- moulding himself into a HOF catcher

Then gloating every time Varsho does anything good just makes most of us want to avoid this board.

i'm curious as to why that would bother anyone here, given he plays for the team we all allegedly support. it's a toronto blue jays forum after all. certainly gloating about a player doing good things is better than gloating about when a player isn't playing their best (as is frequently done here any time varsho or kirk slump) because they've emotionally attached themselves to gabriel moreno, a light-hitting catcher on the arizona diamondbacks.

[C Court]

Sure, there are exaggerations on both sides. That’s why I suggested over a year ago that the trade was a win/win for both teams and let’s move on. You know who was the first to respond and wanted to keep on battling? I’ll let you guess.

As far as gloating is concerned, it’s fine to be happy when a Blue Jay has a good game. But that’s not what has happened. Instead we are dealing with over the top assertions as to the immense greatness of a certain player. It’s trolling. Period.

So my point stands. It’s not about Varsho.

[Cyrus]

Can we all agree that Varsho was truly the MVP for Dodgers in this 7 game series. I mean Yamo was important in game 3, 6and 7, but no one came come close to having the impact Varsho had in all 7 games, to give the Trophy to Dodgers, he's probably celebrating with Dodgers in that parade today:

Varsho in game 6: -11.51% cWPA
Varsho in game 7: -24.26% cWPA

Only ironically Kirk was worse in game 7...lol

Varsho overally in Dodgers series had: -34.96^ cWPA - lowest on the team. This includes his game 1 which he had HR.

Either way we need to find away to upgrade our outfield, can't basically have nothing coming from your outfield until Barger was playing there.

[Randle McMurphy]

i'm curious as to why that would bother anyone here, given he plays for the team we all allegedly support. it's a toronto blue jays forum after all. certainly gloating about a player doing good things is better than gloating about when a player isn't playing their best (as is frequently done here any time varsho or kirk slump) because they've emotionally attached themselves to gabriel moreno, a light-hitting catcher on the arizona diamondbacks.

Oh, I understand it. Some don't like to be reminded they were dead wrong about something, especially when they spent years trashing their own players while stubbornly convinced they were right.

[Randle McMurphy]

Can we all agree that Varsho was truly the MVP for Dodgers in this 7 game series. I mean Yamo was important in game 3, 6and 7, but no one came come close to having the impact Varsho had in all 7 games, to give the Trophy to Dodgers, he's probably celebrating with Dodgers in that parade today:

Varsho in game 6: -11.51% cWPA
Varsho in game 7: -24.26% cWPA

Only ironically Kirk was worse in game 7...lol

Varsho overally in Dodgers series had: -34.96^ cWPA - lowest on the team. This includes his game 1 which he had HR.

Either way we need to find away to upgrade our outfield, can't basically have nothing coming from your outfield until Barger was playing there.

As discussed, Dodgers have the lead in the 4th inning on Saturday night if Varsho wasn't in the outfield. Probably would have went on to roll us.

He could have saved everybody a lot of heartbreak if he hadn't made that miraculous catch. We can definitely agree that was a big mistake from him.

[Mehar]

Can we all agree that Varsho was truly the MVP for Dodgers in this 7 game series. I mean Yamo was important in game 3, 6and 7, but no one came come close to having the impact Varsho had in all 7 games, to give the Trophy to Dodgers, he's probably celebrating with Dodgers in that parade today:

Varsho in game 6: -11.51% cWPA
Varsho in game 7: -24.26% cWPA

Only ironically Kirk was worse in game 7...lol

Varsho overally in Dodgers series had: -34.96^ cWPA - lowest on the team. This includes his game 1 which he had HR.

Either way we need to find away to upgrade our outfield, can't basically have nothing coming from your outfield until Barger was playing there.

Some Dodger fans on Twitter actually labelled Varsho the True MVP of the Dodgers, for being so trash hitting wise the last two games, and leaving 13 men on Base. They suggested that Varsho be invited to the Parade also, for not even being able to hit a ball out of the infield or a SAC FLY in the bottom of the 9th to win the World Series. Those fans had it right. Varsho could have celebrated also today in LA (LOL).

The True MVP of the Dodgers was Noodle Arm Varsho. I think even the Front Office can no longer be fooled by Varsho's Exit Velocity of his Outs, and his atrocious Cricket Swings chasing balls way out of the Strike Zone. Look for Varsho to be sent packing this off-season, with one year to go on his deal and no interest by this franchise on presenting him a contract extension like they did other players. I think they will be actively looking for a new everyday Centre Fielder, and there are many options out there for Shapiro and Atkins.

[GameChannel]

Can we all agree that Varsho was truly the MVP for Dodgers in this 7 game series. I mean Yamo was important in game 3, 6and 7, but no one came come close to having the impact Varsho had in all 7 games, to give the Trophy to Dodgers, he's probably celebrating with Dodgers in that parade today:

Varsho in game 6: -11.51% cWPA
Varsho in game 7: -24.26% cWPA

Only ironically Kirk was worse in game 7...lol

Varsho overally in Dodgers series had: -34.96^ cWPA - lowest on the team. This includes his game 1 which he had HR.

Either way we need to find away to upgrade our outfield, can't basically have nothing coming from your outfield until Barger was playing there.

As discussed, Dodgers have the lead in the 4th inning on Saturday night if Varsho wasn't in the outfield. Probably would have went on to roll us.

He could have saved everybody a lot of heartbreak if he hadn't made that miraculous catch. We can definitely agree that was a big mistake from him.

Yet you keep ignoring the point that had numbnuts hit well in the series before game 7, game 7 wouldnt be needed. But you keep dodging that cuz it doesn’t fit your narrative.

I don’t care what Moreno or Gurriel are doing. They’re not our players, Varsho is. So stop using them to justify the crappiness of Varsho. I only care about the fact that Varsho is a terrible hitter with a terrible arm who cost us the World Series. F. U. C. K Varsho.

[GameChannel]

The goal posts have been shifting for two years. This started as a simple 'Varsho in, Moreno, Gurriel out' trade thread. Then he made the first goal post shift and turned it into a Varsho/Moreno/Kirk thread, even though Kirk was never part of the trade.

I actually like Varsho at times. But gaslighting us that Varsho is an MVP calibre player is ridiculous.

but the following that's been said in this thread about moreno is not ridiculous?

- superstar
- generational catcher
- carrying his team to World Series
- pudge 2.0
- comparable to yadier molina
- dbacks legitimate contender for years to come because of moreno
- moulding himself into a HOF catcher

Then gloating every time Varsho does anything good just makes most of us want to avoid this board.

i'm curious as to why that would bother anyone here, given he plays for the team we all allegedly support. it's a toronto blue jays forum after all. certainly gloating about a player doing good things is better than gloating about when a player isn't playing their best (as is frequently done here any time varsho or kirk slump) because they've emotionally attached themselves to gabriel moreno, a light-hitting catcher on the arizona diamondbacks.

I don’t give a flying **** about Moreno or Kirk or Gurriel. I don’t know why we keep discussing them. We should probably create a separate thread for Varsho detached from what or who we traded for him.

I only care about the fact that Varsho is on our team and he is a big reason for us losing the WS. I don’t want to discuss any other player when talking about the crappiness of this mofo.