Are the Lakers low key better without Lebron?

The4thHorseman · Post #81 » by **The4thHorseman** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 4:09 am

Vintage Smart taking the charge

NyKnicks1714 · Post #82 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 4:40 am

SkyHook wrote:
NyKnicks1714 wrote:
SkyHook wrote:It's true that the raw on/off numbers are far from perfect and the lineups one plays with has impact, but when you're one of two rotation players over a full season who have a negative impact on team performance then, yes, I'd assign some significance to that.

You didn't answer the question though. If you're giving that stat value for LeBron you have to do the same for Brunson and Jdub. Do you think the Knicks and Thunder were better without those two players?

Also where are these advanced stats that suggest LeBron's defense is terrible?

While I haven't dived into the details of their on/off numbers (and don't intend to), the logical assumption would be that the Knicks and Thunder reserves who subbed for them beat up on the opponents reserves to a greater extent than the starters outpaced the opposing starters.

Yes exactly, you can see how there are reasons why this stat could be misleading. LeBron having more time with the Laker's poor bench for example.

His league rankings in defensive advanced metrics are:

EPM, 204th
DPM, 210th
LEBRON, 233rd

These say slightly below average at worst, not terrible and/or a liability. There are other defensive metrics that point to him being much better than that, but maybe you find them to be too flawed (although the things that make them flawed are similar to what make On/off numbers flawed). If you're going to use D-Darko and D-LeBron though I assume you put stock into DARKO and LEBRON, which point to LeBron not being anywhere remotely close to a net negative as was your original claim.

Ito · Post #83 » by **Ito** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 4:51 am

I haven’t even watched a game yet I couldn’t tell ya

CobraCommander · Post #84 » by **CobraCommander** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 4:53 am

no...lebron was their best player in the playoffs just last year.... so hell no.

Post #85 » by **HMFFL** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 5:03 am

Jake LaRavia has been another talent to keep an eye on. Luka is working his magic throughout the roster. The Lakers have some exciting things going on.

ballzboyee · Post #86 » by **ballzboyee** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 5:23 am

HMFFL wrote:Jake LaRavia has been another talent to keep an eye on. Luka is working his magic throughout the roster. The Lakers have some exciting things going on.

That kid is seriously legit. He has great touch and body control for his size. Bro is is beefy 6'8" and 240 pounds and has guard skills. He's been torching defenders around the basket off the back-foot fade away like Dirk out there. That's a high value shot creator tool in a player's bag and he's smooth with it. Really, I am blown away by him. He does not look like a role player.

Mephariel · Post #87 » by **Mephariel** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 5:31 am

So after tonight, is the question:

"Are the Lakers better without Luka, Lebron, and Reeves?"

Memories · Post #88 » by **Memories** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 5:39 am

Mephariel wrote:So after tonight, is the question:

"Are the Lakers better without Luka, Lebron, and Reeves?"

Clearly. Time to trade them all and build around the true franchise player: Nick Smith Jr!

guynumber45 · Post #89 » by **guynumber45** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 5:40 am

If Lebron's final prime could be evolving into Draymond Green, that would bolster the Lakers chances a lot. I don't think they really need his offense with how good Luka and Austin have been. They need to quarterback the defense

Post #90 » by **dockingsched** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 5:59 am

guynumber45 wrote:If Lebron's final prime could be evolving into Draymond Green, that would bolster the Lakers chances a lot. I don't think they really need his offense with how good Luka and Austin have been. They need to quarterback the defense

Yup, lebron’s defensive versatility takes the Lakers to another level. First game of the season against the warriors they really could’ve used him, lot of what the warriors did would be totally ineffective if LeBron was out there.

On offense, a team that plays a gimmick defense like the blazers full court press would get absolutely exposed with LeBron out there

JellosJigglin · Post #91 » by **JellosJigglin** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 6:12 am

Phil Jackson brought Lamar Odom off the bench, which he wasn't happy about, but he went on to win 6MOY and won a title. That's what LeBron needs to do. This Laker team is much deeper. The new additions are doing what I expected. Smart, Ayton, Laravia have been a massive upgrade over DFS. Nick Smith has been a surprise on a 2-way but we'll see if he can keep this up.

LeBron off the bench would put this team in contender status. Unfortunately I think JJ is a yes man and would never do that.

ShootersShoot · Post #92 » by **ShootersShoot** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 6:21 am

Smart and ayton are vets with starting experience and the lakers were lacking guys with their skillsets last season. Reaves and rui keep improving and are in their primes. Laravia has been a surprise.

SlimShady83 · Post #93 » by **SlimShady83** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 6:27 am

Kessler trade away

GiggitySmalls · Post #94 » by **GiggitySmalls** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 7:08 am

Yes

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Lalouie · Post #95 » by **Lalouie** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 7:43 am

Lalouie wrote:
infinite11285 wrote:
Lalouie wrote:He's better than nothing, and since depth is a thing now,,,,,,,,,

that being said you can always use smarts. bbIQ never ages

the Vegas over under was 47.5. in a small sample size but the Lakers are way over that and Luka has carried teams by himself. lal was going to have probs in the West with or without LeBron. by the time LeBron gets back we'll know a lot more

This might be the closest you’ve ever come to complimenting LeBron. I’m proud of you.

uh-oh. lemme go edit my post

i dunno know man. you're going to have to show me what i said that i did such a horrible thing

xinxin · Post #96 » by **xinxin** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 7:47 am

ShootersShoot wrote:Smart and ayton are vets with starting experience and the lakers were lacking guys with their skillsets last season. Reaves and rui keep improving and are in their primes. Laravia has been a surprise.

once the lakers picked up Laravia.. I had to check him out. just from the highlights alone, you could see that the skills and athleticism that would be helpful to the lakers. he did say it took him several days/games to feel his way in the team.. good pick up by the lakers.

lambchop · Post #97 » by **lambchop** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 9:37 am

Mephariel wrote:So after tonight, is the question:

"Are the Lakers better without Luka, Lebron, and Reeves?"

Bronny also coming into his own as a facilitator with those guys out.

bonita_the_frog · Post #98 » by **bonita_the_frog** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 9:46 am

Marcus Smart and Deandre Ayton are MAGNIFICENT ADDITIONS.

Bob8 · Post #99 » by **Bob8** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 9:54 am

bonita_the_frog wrote:Marcus Smart and Deandre Ayton are MAGNIFICENT ADDITIONS.

Sure they are for 13 mio both, add Laravia for 6 and you might understand why Lakers have very solid roster this year. Those 19 mio is averaging almost 40 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists and 3 steals.

bonita_the_frog · Post #100 » by **bonita_the_frog** » Tue Nov 4, 2025 10:02 am

Bob8 wrote:
bonita_the_frog wrote:Marcus Smart and Deandre Ayton are MAGNIFICENT ADDITIONS.

Sure they are for 13 mio both, add Laravia for 6 and you might understand why Lakers have very solid roster this year. Those 19 mio is averaging almost 40 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists and 3 steals.

I agree I love the new look Lakers.
Its the first time I've ever liked the Lakers in my whole life actually (even though I like Houston and Minnesota WAY more).
But when LeBron returns I won't like the Lakers anymore, he slows them down and stops their flow and makes them boring.