Celts Lack Pizzazz, Can't Steal One From Jazz! Loss vs UTA 11/3

[Celts17Pride]

Have the green teamers accepted that the best thing to do is tank or are they still delusional?

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

Celtics are too good to tank. I don’t even know what tanking means to the pro tank crowd. 13th, 14th pick?

This is silly.

Pick 14 has infinite more value than even pick 22.

They're not too good to tank. This is a 44 win team at best.

That's assuming brown is gonna tough it out and not take a month off in the middle of the season for his inevitable knee problems.

Tank doesn't mean lose on purpose. It means accept that this team is better off moving pieces around for the future than competing for first round playoff exit.

The point is that's where the Celtics are heading 12, 13, 14, 15th pick. There is no Top 3-5 pick coming. I've been around since the late Havlicek years, this is a 35-38 win team period. The Celtics players and coaches are not going to lay down so if people's expectations are a 12-15th pick then fine. It's not going to be better. Celtics have too much talent. Celtics are going to be bouncing around a 2-3 game win streak followed by a 2-3 game losing streak all season long. They are a 36 win team.

[Celts17Pride]

Well, if last night wasn't the lowest point in the season, then it will be a very low season. I blame it on Brown who couldn't hit a three and was back to turning the ball over. Isn't he supposed to be a star? Last night he looked like Antoine Walker at Antoine's worst. Mr. empty trip.

Blaming it on Brown, the one guy who did anything tonight. Celtics were +21 with JB on the court and -23 with JB off the court last night. How is that DWhite for all-star and All-NBA campaign going?

[Celticfan_N_FL]

Well, if last night wasn't the lowest point in the season, then it will be a very low season. I blame it on Brown who couldn't hit a three and was back to turning the ball over. Isn't he supposed to be a star? Last night he looked like Antoine Walker at Antoine's worst. Mr. empty trip.

Ah yes, Jaylen is the one to blame because he couldn't hit a three. Lets ignore the fact he was +21 while everyones "real #2" White sucked again.

All I know is if Tatum turned in that performance in a 2 point loss NOBODY would be blaming him.

[darrendaye]

Wow, never seen a bunch of refs sitting around and watching a guy trip another guy and not call a foul.....It might be time to tank.

League IS in the middle of a gambling ring situation......

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Well, if last night wasn't the lowest point in the season, then it will be a very low season. I blame it on Brown who couldn't hit a three and was back to turning the ball over. Isn't he supposed to be a star? Last night he looked like Antoine Walker at Antoine's worst. Mr. empty trip.

Blaming it on Brown, the one guy who did anything tonight. Celtics were +21 with JB on the court and -23 with JB off the court last night. How is that DWhite for all-star and All-NBA campaign going?

JB struggled shooting threes but so did:

White-3/8
PP-4/11
Hauser 1/8
Simons -2/8

Add in that Boston was out rebounded by 22 because their bigs are awful and no one should be surprised at a loss.

As for low point of the season, TBD lets see if they can beat the Wizards

[The Corey's]

Celtics are too good to tank. I don’t even know what tanking means to the pro tank crowd. 13th, 14th pick?

This is silly.

Pick 14 has infinite more value than even pick 22.

They're not too good to tank. This is a 44 win team at best.

That's assuming brown is gonna tough it out and not take a month off in the middle of the season for his inevitable knee problems.

Tank doesn't mean lose on purpose. It means accept that this team is better off moving pieces around for the future than competing for first round playoff exit.

The point is that's where the Celtics are heading 12, 13, 14, 15th pick. There is no Top 3-5 pick coming. I've been around since the late Havlicek years, this is a 35-38 win team period. The Celtics players and coaches are not going to lay down so if people's expectations are a 12-15th pick then fine. It's not going to be better. Celtics have too much talent. Celtics are going to be bouncing around a 2-3 game win streak followed by a 2-3 game losing streak all season long. They are a 36 win team.

Mavs missed the playoffs by one game last year...

I think frankly they need to blow this **** up. Everyone has to go.

Including Tatum. But only after he recovers and shows to the league he can demand top value in return.

The window is over.

[Larry_Russell]

Does anybody else remember that janky-ass white wooden roller-coaster from Six Flags that was built in like the 1920's and was the slowest yet probably most dangerous ride they actually had there?

That ride is going to be the embodiment of this season.

Hard/rough course corrections from one night to the next, encouraging wins to baffling losses with limited rhyme or reason in between, kinda boring, slightly exciting, painful at points.

I've been impressed by JB this season so far. I thought a big story line this season was getting an answer to whether Brown can be a true #1 without Tatum around and he's faring better than I thought he would despite our record. I know he went 0-9 from 3 tonight but just overall if you gave us a marginally better front court I think he'd have led this team to a 5-3 record and that's pretty good for a team with Brown as your #1.

It'll be really interesting to see how Joe handles wing minutes going forward. I want to see more of Hugo. I know fans always want to see rookies earlier than they're ready but Hugo has that Euro seasoning which I feel like gives him an edge in terms of getting up to speed. Minott's been really interesting and I want to invest minutes and seeing what's there but Hugo's ceiling is just so much higher. Hopefully he feeds that duo and gives them long enough leashes to see if they can develop more.

Baylor I kind of want to send to Maine and say "you need to play like the MVP there and then we'll give you a shot". If he's not shooting 40% plus and/or contributing as a playmaker/facilitator (incredibly difficult for a non-rotation player) he's unplayable at the NBA level. Think he needs to prove it. Hugo/Walsh I think at least have the physical tools where they could theoretically contribute because of their athleticism if they can get out of their own ways. Baylor NEEDs the ball to go in to have value and I'm not even sure he can be effective at that at this level (let along G-League).

I would argue that austim reeves has had a vastly more impressive start to season than brown.

Brown has been exactly what he has aleays been.

A lower IQ player who isnt overly efficient but is works hard.

[Larry_Russell]

Well, if last night wasn't the lowest point in the season, then it will be a very low season. I blame it on Brown who couldn't hit a three and was back to turning the ball over. Isn't he supposed to be a star? Last night he looked like Antoine Walker at Antoine's worst. Mr. empty trip.

Blaming it on Brown, the one guy who did anything tonight. Celtics were +21 with JB on the court and -23 with JB off the court last night. How is that DWhite for all-star and All-NBA campaign going?

Yeah, thats a bad take.

Brown does commit dumb turnovers
Brown does break the offemses flow at times with his "it my turn" playstyle

But last nights loss was in spite of him.

[return2glory]

Hauser and Simons are one trick ponies. They either score or they are useless. Stevens should be open to moving either

The plan has been not to have Simons here past the deadline or at least let his expiring contract expire.

Hauser is more valuable when you have Tatum driving and dishing or when Tatum draws double teams. With Tatum not playing this season, it's going to be hard for guys like Hauser get open looks. Some people seem to forget how Tatum improved his ability to get teammates more involved and get them easier looks over the past 2 seasons.

Joe is tanking Simons' value, by playing him only 26mpg, and never in crunch time.

That's not going to change his value that much. His value has been built the years he has been in the NBA overall. 30-50 games with Boston won't change much of that.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, if last night wasn't the lowest point in the season, then it will be a very low season. I blame it on Brown who couldn't hit a three and was back to turning the ball over. Isn't he supposed to be a star? Last night he looked like Antoine Walker at Antoine's worst. Mr. empty trip.

Blaming it on Brown, the one guy who did anything tonight. Celtics were +21 with JB on the court and -23 with JB off the court last night. How is that DWhite for all-star and All-NBA campaign going?

Yeah, thats a bad take.

Brown does commit dumb turnovers
Brown does break the offemses flow at times with his "it my turn" playstyle

But last nights loss was in spite of him.

I'm happy to throw in White, who has shot poorly so far this year, and the officials, who called the game as if they had big bets on Utah. I mean,the guy trips up Brown with a cross body block and there was no call? They also called two phantom fouls on Minott early in the game. Then there were Mazulla's rotations, which completely baffled me. Why didn't Boucher get more minutes? He played well and then they took him out.

So yeah, there was plenty of blame to go around.

[itrsteve]

Doom and gloom or whatever but I really think this struggle time is going to pay huge dividends for those still on the team next season with Tatum back + whatever changes. There’s growth in all these losses for everybody besides Mazulla, he’ll continue to be whatever he is.

Also, been super impressed with Brown’s mid range game. Sure, he’s still a klutz dribbling or getting to the basket but he has shown incredible growth in that midrange dept when it’s time to get a bucket.

If nothing else, he’s going to be that much more of a weapon when he’s not the primary target and that trickles down the pecking order. It’s great that they got some extended time with this experience.

Losing by 1 point is perfect. We need more of those with some marquee game wins sprinkled here and there for morale.

Who will you keep from the newcomers?
Hugo and Minott. That's it.
All other players can go.
Dollar store players. X is the dollar store version of Al (more like 1 cent), Boucher is the dollar store version of Porzingis, etc.

I want to see improvement. Brown improves a little, but he is a star in this league and finals MVP.
Queta, White, PP, Hauser should be better. Even Baylor should be better.
Joe also needs to develop. He should be better at X and O, especially at the end of the game. Also, ride the hot player. Reward players for good play with extended playing time.
8 games is too short but this team plays ugly right now

These two, 100%

I'm still on the fence with Simons, I lean with keeping and seeing how/if he grows. I like his energy and he could be a weapon next season on the second unit.

[playa-hater]

Have the green teamers accepted that the best thing to do is tank or are they still delusional?

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

Celtics are too good to tank. I don’t even know what tanking means to the pro tank crowd. 13th, 14th pick?

"tanking" in this case is once it becomes more obvious (month or 2) play much less of JB and White. It's that simple. Play young players (mainly Minott and Hugo). As already mentioned, Less of JB, whether by injury or choice this team would be pretty bad.

[Hal14]

Have the green teamers accepted that the best thing to do is tank or are they still delusional?

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

Celtics are too good to tank. I don’t even know what tanking means to the pro tank crowd. 13th, 14th pick?

Hawks were in the play-in a year ago and got the no. 1 pick.

All we gotta do is get in the lottery. That way we at least have a chance to move up in the draft..possibly as high as no. 1 pick..or maybe pick 2, 3 or 4.

But the higher the pick, the better. Even if we're in like the 10-14 range, . Mavs tanked late in the season to avoid the play in tourney, drafted LIvely at 12 to get their C of the future and then went to nba finals the next season. Haliburton was 12th pick, Jdub was 12th pick, Bam was 14th, Donovan Mitchell 13th, Booker 13th..

The worst place to be is a team that's seeded like 6-8th..meaning you're not in the lottery and you also have basically zero chance at winning the title..

Even a 5 seed is bad..because that's a draft pick that's even worse than if we were a 6-8 seed and we still have no shot at the title.

Only teams with a shot at a title this season are basically just OKC, houston, Denver and *maybe* knicks and Cavs.

[cl2117]

Does anybody else remember that janky-ass white wooden roller-coaster from Six Flags that was built in like the 1920's and was the slowest yet probably most dangerous ride they actually had there?

That ride is going to be the embodiment of this season.

Hard/rough course corrections from one night to the next, encouraging wins to baffling losses with limited rhyme or reason in between, kinda boring, slightly exciting, painful at points.

I've been impressed by JB this season so far. I thought a big story line this season was getting an answer to whether Brown can be a true #1 without Tatum around and he's faring better than I thought he would despite our record. I know he went 0-9 from 3 tonight but just overall if you gave us a marginally better front court I think he'd have led this team to a 5-3 record and that's pretty good for a team with Brown as your #1.

It'll be really interesting to see how Joe handles wing minutes going forward. I want to see more of Hugo. I know fans always want to see rookies earlier than they're ready but Hugo has that Euro seasoning which I feel like gives him an edge in terms of getting up to speed. Minott's been really interesting and I want to invest minutes and seeing what's there but Hugo's ceiling is just so much higher. Hopefully he feeds that duo and gives them long enough leashes to see if they can develop more.

Baylor I kind of want to send to Maine and say "you need to play like the MVP there and then we'll give you a shot". If he's not shooting 40% plus and/or contributing as a playmaker/facilitator (incredibly difficult for a non-rotation player) he's unplayable at the NBA level. Think he needs to prove it. Hugo/Walsh I think at least have the physical tools where they could theoretically contribute because of their athleticism if they can get out of their own ways. Baylor NEEDs the ball to go in to have value and I'm not even sure he can be effective at that at this level (let along G-League).

I would argue that austim reeves has had a vastly more impressive start to season than brown.

Brown has been exactly what he has aleays been.

A lower IQ player who isnt overly efficient but is works hard.

Reaves definitely has had a more impressive start than Brown but I don't think that should take away anything from Jaylen.

I think what Brown has done has been impressive albeit not very meaningful. I think there's always been a lingering question about whether he could be "the" guy for a team and this year was going to help answer that. And by "the" guy I don't mean the #1 on a championship contender, but rather the #1 on a playoff team. Kind of like how Mitchell was for Utah and then Cleveland before they turned a corner. I would say this year goes to show that JB could be the #1 on his own team, even if that team's ceiling is a 2nd round exit.

I figure this goes 1 of 3 ways:

1) JB gets it out of his system and re-commits to being the best #2 he can be having seen how frustrating leading a mediocre team on a treadmill is

2) He gets a taste for it, ultimately it becomes one of the first steps on a slippery slope that breaks up the Jay's as their balance is thrown off

3) It has no impact, it's a throwaway year and Brown and Tatum come back and fall right back in lock-step

And don't call him low IQ, it's a really lazy criticism. He's clearly not a low IQ guy despite the mistakes he makes.

[playa-hater]

BTW, Queta has played quite well in all 8 games thus far. Yet somehow only gets 22 min per. Is this a joke? Queta I believe leads the team in +/- for the season. And it isn't a coincidence that Boston plays better with him On vs Off. His per 40 is quite impressive. Why is he only playing 22 per? and Please don't tell me Garza and Tillman are playing as well.

[Hal14]

BTW, Queta has played quite well in all 8 games thus far. Yet somehow only gets 22 min per. Is this a joke? Queta I believe leads the team in +/- for the season. And it isn't a coincidence that Boston plays better with him On vs Off. His per 40 is quite impressive. Why is he only playing 22 per? and Please don't tell me Garza and Tillman are playing as well.

There's been a couple of blowouts (1 where we won, 1 where we lost) so starters sat a lot at the end.

Also, he's coming off knee surgery over the summer and played FIBA during the summer too so they probably don't want to overload him..especially since he's not used to playing heavy mins in the NBA..prior to this season has never averaged more than 13.9 MPG..

Plus we've had a couple of back to backs, where you gotta play your starters less mins..

[ThePigeon]

Have the green teamers accepted that the best thing to do is tank or are they still delusional?

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

Celtics are too good to tank. I don’t even know what tanking means to the pro tank crowd. 13th, 14th pick?

Hawks were in the play-in a year ago and got the no. 1 pick.

All we gotta do is get in the lottery. That way we at least have a chance to move up in the draft..possibly as high as no. 1 pick..or maybe pick 2, 3 or 4.

But the higher the pick, the better. Even if we're in like the 10-14 range, . Mavs tanked late in the season to avoid the play in tourney, drafted LIvely at 12 to get their C of the future and then went to nba finals the next season. Haliburton was 12th pick, Jdub was 12th pick, Bam was 14th, Donovan Mitchell 13th, Booker 13th..

The worst place to be is a team that's seeded like 6-8th..meaning you're not in the lottery and you also have basically zero chance at winning the title..

Even a 5 seed is bad..because that's a draft pick that's even worse than if we were a 6-8 seed and we still have no shot at the title.

Only teams with a shot at a title this season are basically just OKC, houston, Denver and *maybe* knicks and Cavs.

If we get a top 3 pick, I trust Brad to blow it
He is a really bad drafter. Too smart and tries to beat the system with his picks (and fails miserably)

I prefer a chance to get the title (maybe all the stars will be injured against us) than a crap shoot in the lottery

[redslastlaugh]

The plan has been not to have Simons here past the deadline or at least let his expiring contract expire.

Hauser is more valuable when you have Tatum driving and dishing or when Tatum draws double teams. With Tatum not playing this season, it's going to be hard for guys like Hauser get open looks. Some people seem to forget how Tatum improved his ability to get teammates more involved and get them easier looks over the past 2 seasons.

Joe is tanking Simons' value, by playing him only 26mpg, and never in crunch time.

That's not going to change his value that much. His value has been built the years he has been in the NBA overall. 30-50 games with Boston won't change much of that.

Simons has no value on $28 million this season. After the season, as a free agent, he will come face to face with his current value in today's NBA and we'll just go from there.

Simons reminds me of Dennis Schroder the year we got him on the mini-MLE or taxpayers or whatever. Like Schroeder, Simons will have to re-establish his value on a smallish contract, this is my prediction for him

[Deivork]

Only read the first page. So, that guy doesn't trip Brown, we win the game no?

[Shak_Celts]

Well, if last night wasn't the lowest point in the season, then it will be a very low season. I blame it on Brown who couldn't hit a three and was back to turning the ball over. Isn't he supposed to be a star? Last night he looked like Antoine Walker at Antoine's worst. Mr. empty trip.

I just want to say, you are needed! I wish more would step up to the plate, like they have over the years.

I’m not joking, we really do need differing opinions on here. Well, I wish it was more spread out to different players, but ATP, I’ll take it all leveled at JB, if it gets people commenting about more than tanking or winning and losing.

I wanted to say this, before I comment on your actual words, because I want you to know it’s not personal. I enjoy when people say these things. People have quit the forum or been excised, we need people discussing things more, because it feels like it’s getting deader by the day.

People haven’t been watching the NBA as much over the years, maybe the change on here is partly due to that, it doesn’t feel the same. I could be wrong, but the last few years, it feels much quieter around here. You would think we would have gotten a boost after winning the chip, if we have, I haven’t noticed it.

I’m complaining, but maybe I shouldn’t, because I have seen other boards. All I see is tumbleweed. I have seen multiple sites die that were at the top of the game in sports forums the last few years (dumb changes being the main culprit). I need y’all to stay and the ones who are quiet come on back, it’s too Chaplin in here!

I’d like some of the spice, bring it on back, it used to be different back in the day! I can be ridiculous, what happened to the people who were just as ridiculous with their thoughts, but we all posted them just the same? I want the back and forth!!

Come on back everyone who can, you read without talking, I miss you!! Speak up!! I want to debate and have conversations with you, it really doesn’t matter if I’m wrong or get my butt handed to me!! Come now!!!

BRING ON THE SPICE (within reason)!!!!!