NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 6

[tontoz]

Suns up 16 on the Spurs at the half

[badinage]

Josh Giddy is proving the doubters wrong, including his own organization, Da Bulls are undefeated.

I've been a big time doubter of Giddey and I'm getting ready to eat a pretty large plate of crow. I still think he is more of a floor raiser than a ceiling raiser and I question whether he can be effective in the playoffs, but he has been terrific so far.

I desperately wanted us to pursue him when he was embroiled in his “scandal.”

Someone made an interesting observation — now that he’s got a 3-ball to his game, he’s playing like a 6’-8” Steve Nash.

Would’ve been sweet.

Hasn’t even hit his prime.

[trast66]

Rui and Deni were the best players last night on two fairly decent teams. Rui won this one, Lakers may be legit, winning without Luka and LeBron.

In any case, reminder need to be patient with our young ones, development not always fast or linear.

[nate33]

Rui and Deni were the best players last night on two fairly decent teams. Rui won this one, Lakers may be legit, winning without Luka and LeBron.

In any case, reminder need to be patient with our young ones, development not always fast or linear.

JJ Redick is a really good coach. Somehow, the Lakers are a league average defensive team despite being full of bad individual defenders.

[tontoz]

Westbrook dropped a triple double on the Warriors. He might take the Kings out of the tank race by himself. He is showing out so far.

[TGW]

Rui and Deni were the best players last night on two fairly decent teams. Rui won this one, Lakers may be legit, winning without Luka and LeBron.

In any case, reminder need to be patient with our young ones, development not always fast or linear.

There is no such thing as "patience" in the NBA. That is a myth. Teams normally don't keep young players into their prime. Young players need to show their worth immediately, or more times than not, they are getting shipped out and replaced by a new wave of young players. It's the nature of the NBA.

[tontoz]

Kessler out for the season with shoulder surgery.

[nate33]

The Suns beat the Clippers by 115 to 102.

Leave it to Beal to ruin our future even when he is no longer on our team. He went 2-14 for 5 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist and 2 turnovers for a -23 point differential in 20 minutes in a spectacular effort to deprive us of lottery balls.

[Kanyewest]

The Suns beat the Clippers by 115 to 102.

Leave it to Beal to ruin our future even when he is no longer on our team. He went 2-14 for 5 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist and 2 turnovers for a -23 point differential in 20 minutes in a spectacular effort to deprive us of lottery balls.

True I was upset last night as well. But then I saw by looking at the box score that Kawhi and Harden were out. Maybe Beal can’t be a facsimile number one option anymore especially against his former team. He has not been a Norman Powell replacement up to this point especially transitioning to a new team.

[prime1time]

There was big debate on this thread about Cade Cunningham. To see how he's improved his game is just impressive. 26/9/6 last year. 26/10/5 this year (rounding up).

[FAH1223]

Watch on YouTube

[tontoz]

Big game in the tank wars tonight, Pels vs Suns. Let's see if Dairy Queen delivers.

[9 and 20]

Need the Suns to start losing. Tankathon has been pretty bleak without the Suns swap being meaningful. Let's go Poole!!

[AFM]

Last night was crazy.

Watch on YouTube

Worth watching.

[nate33]

Jokic is doing it again. He has broken the game.

Last night, he had 35 points, 15 boards and 7 assists on a .861 TS% with only 3 turnovers in 33 minutes. It wasn't even a remarkable game for him. It was pretty much what he does every night.

So far, 10 games into the season, he is averaging:
26.2 points
13.2 rebounds
11.4 assists
1.9 steals
0.7 blocks
3.1 turnovers
.748 TS%
147 ORtg
36.8 PER
.434 WS/48
19.2 BPM

He leads the league in rebounds, assists, TS%, PER, ORtg, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM and BPM. And that's in a season where SGA and Giannis have gotten off to terrific starts.

He is a cheat code. It's just not fair. His PER is 4 points higher than the all time single season record of 32.85 (owned by him, naturally). His WS/48 is miles ahead of the single-season record of .339. He already has five the of the last 6 highest BPM totals (his highest was 13.72) and now he is obliterating it. And it's difficult to even put into words how preposterous it is to post a TS% of .748 on that kind of volume.

Oh, and his TS% has suffered because in the opening game of the season, he had a real rough game going 2-13 from 3-point range. In the 9 games after that first game, his TS% is 80.1%. How is he even human?

[payitforward]

Unreal....

Who was the last player to be as dominant as this? Wilt?

[nate33]

Unreal....

Who was the last player to be as dominant as this? Wilt?

Nobody.

Wilt put up a staggering volume, but his shooting efficiency was undermined by shooting a FT% in the 50-60% range. His TS% tended to be 7 or so percentage points above league average, not 17 points like Jokic is now (or 12 points above for an entire season like Jokic has done in the past). Wilt was more Shaq-like than Jokic. A dominant presence to be sure, but with a fatal weakness (FT%) that impacted his effectiveness when it mattered.

Also the pace and minutes played back then were absurd. They had 25% more possessions per game, and Wilt played 33% more minutes than a starter today. So just on the additional possessions alone, one would expect Wilt to post 60-65% more points, rebounds and assists than a star caliber player today. When Wilt averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds that one season, it would actually look something more like 31 points and 15 rebounds per 36 minutes at today's pace. And if he shot a TS% roughly 7 points above league average today, it would come in at around .650.

[penbeast0]

Unreal....

Who was the last player to be as dominant as this? Wilt?

Nobody.

Wilt put up a staggering volume, but his shooting efficiency was undermined by shooting a FT% in the 50-60% range. His TS% tended to be 7 or so percentage points above league average, not 17 points like Jokic is now (or 12 points above for an entire season like Jokic has done in the past). Wilt was more Shaq-like than Jokic. A dominant presence to be sure, but with a fatal weakness (FT%) that impacted his effectiveness when it mattered.

Also the pace and minutes played back then were absurd. They had 25% more possessions per game, and Wilt played 33% more minutes than a starter today. So just on the additional possessions alone, one would expect Wilt to post 60-65% more points, rebounds and assists than a star caliber player today. When Wilt averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds that one season, it would actually look something more like 31 points and 15 rebounds per 36 minutes at today's pace. And if he shot a TS% roughly 7 points above league average today, it would come in at around .650.

Also Wilt had a rival in Russell who many people (including me) argue or argued at the time was better. Defense counts which is why it's not a sure thing that Jokic is MVP (or Wilt). Russell was probably the most dominant ever with pretty much just defense and rebounding, maybe Mikan was more so. Statistically dominant might be a better way to put it. Then you are competing with Kareem whose stats weren't as crazy as Wilt's but who was in a weaker era for the league.

[nate33]

Unreal....

Who was the last player to be as dominant as this? Wilt?

Nobody.

Wilt put up a staggering volume, but his shooting efficiency was undermined by shooting a FT% in the 50-60% range. His TS% tended to be 7 or so percentage points above league average, not 17 points like Jokic is now (or 12 points above for an entire season like Jokic has done in the past). Wilt was more Shaq-like than Jokic. A dominant presence to be sure, but with a fatal weakness (FT%) that impacted his effectiveness when it mattered.

Also the pace and minutes played back then were absurd. They had 25% more possessions per game, and Wilt played 33% more minutes than a starter today. So just on the additional possessions alone, one would expect Wilt to post 60-65% more points, rebounds and assists than a star caliber player today. When Wilt averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds that one season, it would actually look something more like 31 points and 15 rebounds per 36 minutes at today's pace. And if he shot a TS% roughly 7 points above league average today, it would come in at around .650.

Also Wilt had a rival in Russell who many people (including me) argue or argued at the time was better. Defense counts which is why it's not a sure thing that Jokic is MVP (or Wilt). Russell was probably the most dominant ever with pretty much just defense and rebounding, maybe Mikan was more so. Statistically dominant might be a better way to put it. Then you are competing with Kareem whose stats weren't as crazy as Wilt's but who was in a weaker era for the league.

Yeah, generally speaking, I try not to get too into the weeds on comparing current guys to the old-timers like Wilt, Russell and Mikan. The league is so different today and the stats back then were so incomplete, it's hard to get a good read. Also, with only 9 or so teams, and a universe of talent that consisted mostly of just Americans who were financially well off enough to have the time to practice their game, there's a lack of talent issue that is hard to evaluate.

[penbeast0]

Yeah, generally speaking, I try not to get too into the weeds on comparing current guys to the old-timers like Wilt, Russell and Mikan. The league is so different today and the stats back then were so incomplete, it's hard to get a good read. Also, with only 9 or so teams, and a universe of talent that consisted mostly of just Americans who were financially well off enough to have the time to practice their game, there's a lack of talent issue that is hard to evaluate.

Aiming more at the offensive statistical dominance v. two way impact dominance over the period of years with the Wilt/Russell comment. Jokic has been statistically dominant (and is even more so this year) but guys like Giannis have a strong defensive edge which makes it closer than the numbers would indicate.