Deandre Ayton is surprisingly consistent

[PistolPeteJR]

People jumping on him are completely missing the point. The context here is everything:

He's making a difference because the Lakers for multiple seasons now, outside of AD, did not have anything resembling a semi-reliable big that can set screens and rebound. He was not brought in to anchor the defense, he wasn't brought in to impact the game a la #1 pick. He was brought in to do those things and whatever else he can provide at an $8mil/year salary.

As far as the Lakers are concerned, 8 games into the season, that's a big win.

[Anderson Hunt]

Many moons ago, Devin Booker was branded an empty stats player. I've been saying for years that Booker is not demonstratively too much different than Zach LaVine. If you give LaVine Chris Paul five years ago we'd be looking at him the same way we look at Booker.

Empty stats is an overused term. Oftentimes players simply are who they are. Booker is a scorer/shooter/supplementary playmaker. He is this on a winning team and he'll be that on a losing team too. Zach LaVine is a highly efficient shooter/scorer/slasher who will be that regardless if he's on a winning team or a losing team.

The problem is that far too many people think simplistically and listen to other simplistic thinkers.

DeAndre Ayton was part of a winning situation in PHX, but he bumped heads with Monty Williams and Chris Paul. Since he was benched in The Finals he's been branded a nincompoop, a guy who doesn't contribute to winning, and many people, simplistic-thinking people, simply ran with it.

The reality is that practically every player in history can contribute to winning when put in a proper role. These players simply need to find their match with a team that needs their skill set, surrounded by proper leaders, with a coach that values them.

Ayton isn't an empty stats guy anymore than Magic Johnson, LeBron James, and/or Michael Jordan are.

Even Cam Thomas can contribute mightily to championship team. He just needs that right guys around him, and Ayton is no different.

[bonita_the_frog]

Ayton is only averaging 2.3 free-throw attempts per game in his career, and 1.9 this season.
Not a problem though, because he's a machine, shooting .651fg this season.

[og15]

Many moons ago, Devin Booker was branded an empty stats player. I've been saying for years that Booker is not demonstratively too much different than Zach LaVine. If you give LaVine Chris Paul five years ago we'd be looking at him the same way we look at Booker.

Empty stats is an overused term. Oftentimes players simply are who they are. Booker is a scorer/shooter/supplementary playmaker. He is this on a winning team and he'll be that on a losing team too. Zach LaVine is a highly efficient shooter/scorer/slasher who will be that regardless if he's on a winning team or a losing team.

The problem is that far too many people think simplistically and listen to other simplistic thinkers.

DeAndre Ayton was part of a winning situation in PHX, but he bumped heads with Monty Williams and Chris Paul. Since he was benched in The Finals he's been branded a nincompoop, a guy who doesn't contribute to winning, and many people, simplistic-thinking people, simply ran with it.

The reality is that practically every player in history can contribute to winning when put in a proper role. These players simply need to find their match with a team that needs their skill set, surrounded by proper leaders, with a coach that values them.

Ayton isn't an empty stats guy anymore than Magic Johnson, LeBron James, and/or Michael Jordan are.

Even Cam Thomas can contribute mightily to championship team. He just needs that right guys around him, and Ayton is no different.

What do you mean by benched in the finals? Ayton wasn't benched in the finals. In fact, the Suns didn't even have any other capable big man to have the luxury of keeping him off the floor too long. Ayton was benched the next season vs Dallas in a game where they got absolutely destroyed, including being beat 30-10 in the 2nd quarter.

Ayton's criticism came from lackadaisical consistency of effort, especially after he got paid. The Suns got him to be more consistent with defensive effort and motor because of CP being on him, as well as Monty. He got tired of it, but his consistency of effort was not there without it. He didn't prove anyone wrong, just confirmed.

Ayton will continue to have that consistency problem, and part of it has been reported to be linked to some off court habits and poor sleep, etc. This means that he will have good games and stretches, but also have just as many disappearing/minimal effort stretches, that is, unless he decides to change something, which none of us can know or predict.

A team signing him at this point in his career is aware of that, or should be by now, and is doing so knowing that and being prepared to adjust for that.

Ayton's labelling of empty stats is not the same as those great players mentioned. We could see their impact on poor teams, they are raisers, even when they didn't win a series, etc, etc. Ayton does not have that impact, he's not raising a teams level.

[SlimShady83]

I predicted 20-12 season, got slammed on here, Facebook and YouTube, hope he proves me right and everyone wrong

[sunsbg]

DA to lead Luka to his first title.

[MrGoat]

DA to lead Luka to his first title.

The Lakers need to trade a ham sandwich for Marvin Bagley to bring him along for the ride for peak comedy purposes

[HMFFL]

Ayton is where he wants to be in LA so his work ethic has probably improved. He is dealing with Luka. It's not like Dwight Howard having Kobe to deal with.

Ayton will get extended if he stays the course.

[xb3at band1tx]

Im most surprised with his screens, he may not be the best "Rim Runner" but his screening/picks are top tier so far

[John Murdoch]

Its def refreshing to have a big that can finish in the paint with light touch...havent had that since Gasol

[zimpy27]

Going to be making Gortat screens and Lakers will be tough to stop

[HMFFL]

Going to be making Gortat screens and Lakers will be tough to stop

Very true...lol
Hip Check!

[ghillphx]

He’s good for 16/10 no matter where he is or who he’s playing with.

Read on Twitter

Suns fans always overreacted about Ayton, got mad about silly things like him not dunking. Moment we traded him for Nurcic, many fans went silent, but saw that Ayton was a part of the reason why the Suns made the finals. He got way too much hate. Always been an Ayton fan, I think fans were made bc he didn't exceed their number 1 pick expectatations and we passed on Luka. Regardless, he's a pretty good player - always has been. Don't act surprised

[tsherkin]

Suns fans always overreacted about Ayton, got mad about silly things like him not dunking. Moment we traded him for Nurcic, many fans went silent, but saw that Ayton was a part of the reason why the Suns made the finals. He got way too much hate. Always been an Ayton fan, I think fans were made bc he didn't exceed their number 1 pick expectatations and we passed on Luka. Regardless, he's a pretty good player - always has been. Don't act surprised

I don't think they've overreacted. He's a bit of a bitch on defense and his effort is hella inconsistent. And he was both pretty underwhelming, and pretty bad at the foul line, for Phoenix in the playoffs when they did make it. He's definitely someone who routinely underperforms his tools and doesn't have a strong approach to the game. He IS very good at doing big man things on offense alongside a good passer, though, so having him alongside Doncic is pretty good (much as was the case with Chris Paul).

But yeah, he's basically an avatar of disappointment, overall.

[cupcakesnake]

Lots of people get called "empty stats players" or get accused of not contributing to winning, despite putting up measurable statistics. A lot of the time that's just, a guy is putting up numbers on a bad team, and people have doubts about how it would translate on a more talented team where this player wouldn't have as much primacy.

With Deandre, he's been on winning teams, and gone to the finals, so that's not why people call him empty stats. Usually I think "empty stats" is a poor, superficial judgment, but there are reasons with Deandre why I think some doubts are reasonable and come from watching him play.

Deandre primarily plays the role of a rim running big. Guys who are elite in this role can be elite, because they suck in the defense who are worried about giving up dunks. They have rim gravity the same way Steph/Dirk have spacing gravity. Add some short roll passing to a rim running big, and you have a super impactful offensive piece, even if the player isn't mega "skilled" in the traditional sense.

The problem with Deandre is that he's a bit allergic to the rim. He likes to stop his roll 5-8 feet from the basket, uncork a floater, or turn his back to the basket once a defender comes over. He's actually very good in the short midrange, but short midrange shots dont collapse the defense. You make or you miss that shot and the defense lives with it. It's the reason Demar Derozan can score a ton of points but not really move the needle, offensively, for his teams. On top of that, Deandre isn't an amazing passer in these situations.

He's a bit like the second coming of late career Dwight, but with less defensive focus. A rim runner who hates rim running and wants to post up. Throughout 6 games, Ayton is finishing better from 3-10 (70%!!!) feet than he is at the rim (63%).

Ayton's problem are just unrealistic expectations because he was #1 pick and max. salary Suns gave him. Suns basically **** up twice. Take that away and he's very solid player for Lakers. He can score, rebound and give you some rim protection, I would say more than worth 8 mio Lakers are paying for him.

I don't think anyone should have a problem with Ayton's contract.
I think the persistent "problem" fans have with him come from his weird tendencies on the court. That and that he's so physically gifted. He looks like David Robinson, has soft hands, and soft touch. The things he struggles with are not the things players of his physical profile typically struggle with.

I think Ayton is a solid starting center.

[ghillphx]

Suns fans always overreacted about Ayton, got mad about silly things like him not dunking. Moment we traded him for Nurcic, many fans went silent, but saw that Ayton was a part of the reason why the Suns made the finals. He got way too much hate. Always been an Ayton fan, I think fans were made bc he didn't exceed their number 1 pick expectatations and we passed on Luka. Regardless, he's a pretty good player - always has been. Don't act surprised

I don't think they've overreacted. He's a bit of a bitch on defense and his effort is hella inconsistent. And he was both pretty underwhelming, and pretty bad at the foul line, for Phoenix in the playoffs when they did make it. He's definitely someone who routinely underperforms his tools and doesn't have a strong approach to the game. He IS very good at doing big man things on offense alongside a good passer, though, so having him alongside Doncic is pretty good (much as was the case with Chris Paul).

But yeah, he's basically an avatar of disappointment, overall.

I watched 95% of the Suns games he played - fans definitely overreacted. The casual fan wants dunks and flash. Most suns fans prob watch 5-10 games a year, see him make a couple bad plays and cry.

[tsherkin]

I watched 95% of the Suns games he played - fans definitely overreacted. The casual fan wants dunks and flash. Most suns fans prob watch 5-10 games a year, see him make a couple bad plays and cry.

Again, no. He definitely underperformed. He was pretty bad in the playoffs, he's definitely a disappointment as a rebounder and he's definitely not a guy you look to as any kind of hustle, 50/50 guy. He could easily be better if he was more motivated, but outside of 2022, he's been sort of empty calories much of his existence in the NBA.

[Bob8]

I watched 95% of the Suns games he played - fans definitely overreacted. The casual fan wants dunks and flash. Most suns fans prob watch 5-10 games a year, see him make a couple bad plays and cry.

Again, no. He definitely underperformed. He was pretty bad in the playoffs, he's definitely a disappointment as a rebounder and he's definitely not a guy you look to as any kind of hustle, 50/50 guy. He could easily be better if he was more motivated, but outside of 2022, he's been sort of empty calories much of his existence in the NBA.

And how Booker and CP3 played that game 7? Ayton was benched, while those 2 leaders were nonexistent.

[tsherkin]

And how Booker and CP3 played that game 7? Ayton was benched, while those 2 leaders were nonexistent.

And? Completely immaterial to this thread. And also a one-game sample, so not stunningly relevant in any context. We're talking about Ayton, not other guys.

[Bob8]

And how Booker and CP3 played that game 7? Ayton was benched, while those 2 leaders were nonexistent.

And? Completely immaterial to this thread. And also a one-game sample, so not stunningly relevant in any context. We're talking about Ayton, not other guys.

I just find funny how Booker gets away with playoffs performance and Ayton doesn't. Normally leader should take the blame, especially if he plays extremely poorly. And game 7 is not just an ordinary game.