Let’s put the attention where it belongs, Weltman’s seat is red hot

[basketballRob]

I remember Clifford saying you couldn't play 2 small guards together without having some bigs who could back them up. We don't have a Steven Adams and JJJ like Memphis did when they were good.

Clifford said that when we were projected to pick Trae.



Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

[paperboymafia]

Obviously there’s some serious stuff wrong with this squad right now, and I think several people are to blame. No order here but here’s my thoughts.

1. Paolo Banchero, he’s not playing well at all, he seems uninterested to me, especially on defense and his turnover habit appears to be getting worse, and he simply looks like a “me first” guy. I honestly haven’t enjoyed watching him the last two seasons. He’s young so he’s got a little time to break these habits but if this team wants to go anywhere it better start now.

2. Jamahl Mosely, his fantastic defense is not here at all and offensively he’s just not an elite coach, Mosely is an inspirational type coach, that’s his strength, he needs to prioritize that defense getting back because this team wins games due to it.

3. Jeff Weltman. Credit due, on paper this teams a contender once Mo Wagner gets back, but it’s looking like a train wreck on the court. I’m cutting Bane some slack him being new, but Weltman did compromise this teams future for this so if it doesn’t come around it’s getting blown up and one of the Magics best looking young squads become an after thought. For me, his handcuffing the teams draft prospects and capping us out money wise is why if I’m ownership, I fire him as a first change to fix it.

In my limited ability to view orlando games, this is something that has stuck out to me more and more over time. Something about his presence and attitude feels very off on the eye test.

[89Magicfan]

Paolo is playing like a me first guy because that’s how Weltman structured the roster to be.

Yall remember when Paolo said we need a floor general playmaking PG? Yeah he doesn’t want to be me first. He wants to win. Also why his body language is off. Dude wants to win.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Paolo is playing like a me first guy because that’s how Weltman structured the roster to be.

Yall remember when Paolo said we need a floor general playmaking PG? Yeah he doesn’t want to be me first. He wants to win. Also why his body language is off. Dude wants to win.

Paolo or at least his mom/dad went heavily at Mose for not having a capable offensive system outside of Paolo/Franz Iso last year during the playoffs. I'd imagine Paolo is tired of Mose's offense by committee YMCA approach

[Black and Blue]

Paolo is playing like a me first guy because that’s how Weltman structured the roster to be.

Yall remember when Paolo said we need a floor general playmaking PG? Yeah he doesn’t want to be me first. He wants to win. Also why his body language is off. Dude wants to win.

Paolo or at least his mom/dad went heavily at Mose for not having a capable offensive system outside of Paolo/Franz Iso last year during the playoffs. I'd imagine Paolo is tired of Mose's offense by committee YMCA approach

This cannot be understated. Throw in that Bane looks bad and will likely complain about the system and Mosely’s chair is red hot.

I still think they give Mosely as long as possible but yeah January sounds right if this isn’t a playoff team by then. In a weak east with this roster there is no excuse.

[IllMagic04]

Paolo is playing like a me first guy because that’s how Weltman structured the roster to be.

Yall remember when Paolo said we need a floor general playmaking PG? Yeah he doesn’t want to be me first. He wants to win. Also why his body language is off. Dude wants to win.

Paolo or at least his mom/dad went heavily at Mose for not having a capable offensive system outside of Paolo/Franz Iso last year during the playoffs. I'd imagine Paolo is tired of Mose's offense by committee YMCA approach

This cannot be understated. Throw in that Bane looks bad and will likely complain about the system and Mosely’s chair is red hot.

I still think they give Mosely as long as possible but yeah January sounds right if this isn’t a playoff team by then. In a weak east with this roster there is no excuse.

If we move from him by Jan do we just roll with the assistant coach or bring a coach in. Cant imagine someone like Mike Malone would want to come in mid season.

[Fortune Teller]

It’s easy to blame the coach, and I’m not saying Mos doesn’t bear some responsibility here. But the guys are getting open shots — they’re just missing them. If you bring in a new coach are Paolo and Franz going to start hitting open threes? Or are they just bad shooters? Those two were 0-7 from three last night. Based on his wonky form I’m shocked when Franz actually makes a three. Suggs is only playing 20 mpg and Wendell is average at best. So that leaves Bane and he’s missing open threes too.

The one thing we needed most was a lead guard to break down defenses and hit open threes and Jeff got Bane. I’m just not sure Malone or anyone else could take these same pieces and implement a system that makes them all shoot better. I mean they started 1-12 from three last night with Franz and Paolo leading the bench parade. Those are our two “stars” and primary ball handlers. So is that easily fixable? Don’t know.

[VFX]

Has anyone stopped to consider that Mosely is merely a yes man that is initiating exactly the offense Weltman wants to see with this Dual Forward system he drafted and tripled down on?

[eyriq]

Has anyone stopped to consider that Mosely is merely a yes man that is initiating exactly the offense Weltman wants to see with this Dual Forward system he drafted and tripled down on?

He could be a yes man but is Prunty? I don't think that's a highly plausible scenario.

I do wonder if Paolo saying he wants to be a hub and less a playmaker is driving the shift in assist % towards the guards and why we brought in Tyus. Hopefully everyone realizes this is flawed and they abort the experiment ASAP.

[VFX]

Has anyone stopped to consider that Mosely is merely a yes man that is initiating exactly the offense Weltman wants to see with this Dual Forward system he drafted and tripled down on?

He could be a yes man but is Prunty? I don't think that's a highly plausible scenario.

I do wonder if Paolo saying he wants to be a hub and less a playmaker is driving the shift in assist % towards the guards and why we brought in Tyus. Hopefully everyone realizes this is flawed and they abort the experiment ASAP.

Haven’t they already?

It’s been only a handful of games and Tyus plays minimally off the bench when Suggs is playing and Black is available.

Are we now making up fake scenarios where the team we are watching is brutally bad because Mosely is playing Tyus Jones less than 10 minutes in blowout losses?

Just because they acquired an off the bench lead guard doesn't indicate that they have at all experimented with Paolo and Franz "off-ball".

[Bensational]

Has anyone stopped to consider that Mosely is merely a yes man that is initiating exactly the offense Weltman wants to see with this Dual Forward system he drafted and tripled down on?

He could be a yes man but is Prunty? I don't think that's a highly plausible scenario.

I do wonder if Paolo saying he wants to be a hub and less a playmaker is driving the shift in assist % towards the guards and why we brought in Tyus. Hopefully everyone realizes this is flawed and they abort the experiment ASAP.

I think Paolo is in conflict with just how much responsibility he actually has if he wants to be a championship leading #1 option. Being a bucket getter isn’t enough, he has to be the playmaker too - or if he wants someone else to take on that role he needs to learn how to be a helpful off-ball teammate, because right now all he does is camp on the elbow at the perimeter and once in a while do a terrible job trying to get position in the paint. However, when he’s creating for others the floor opens up for everyone. Clearly opposing defenses are capable of adapting to that both in game and in planning before a game, but that’s where Paolo needs to step up and level up and learn how to beat the different defenses sent at him.

Our team has too many individually talented and versatile guys for the team not to be better than it is. I think Mosley was great at getting young guys to enthusiastically commit to some elements of the game, but he has not been able to help a single one of our players really blossom as offensive players. Any improvements they’ve made are probably in spite of what Mosley has them doing on offense, not because of.

All up I think there’s a leadership issue in Orlando right now, and the two who can have the most impact on that are Paolo and Mosley learning how to get the most out of the guys around them - and both are regressing.

[eyriq]

Has anyone stopped to consider that Mosely is merely a yes man that is initiating exactly the offense Weltman wants to see with this Dual Forward system he drafted and tripled down on?

He could be a yes man but is Prunty? I don't think that's a highly plausible scenario.

I do wonder if Paolo saying he wants to be a hub and less a playmaker is driving the shift in assist % towards the guards and why we brought in Tyus. Hopefully everyone realizes this is flawed and they abort the experiment ASAP.

I think Paolo is in conflict with just how much responsibility he actually has if he wants to be a championship leading #1 option. Being a bucket getter isn’t enough, he has to be the playmaker too - or if he wants someone else to take on that role he needs to learn how to be a helpful off-ball teammate, because right now all he does is camp on the elbow at the perimeter and once in a while do a terrible job trying to get position in the paint. However, when he’s creating for others the floor opens up for everyone. Clearly opposing defenses are capable of adapting to that both in game and in planning before a game, but that’s where Paolo needs to step up and level up and learn how to beat the different defenses sent at him.

Our team has too many individually talented and versatile guys for the team not to be better than it is. I think Mosley was great at getting young guys to enthusiastically commit to some elements of the game, but he has not been able to help a single one of our players really blossom as offensive players. Any improvements they’ve made are probably in spite of what Mosley has them doing on offense, not because of.

All up I think there’s a leadership issue in Orlando right now, and the two who can have the most impact on that are Paolo and Mosley learning how to get the most out of the guys around them - and both are regressing.

I hear you. Role confusion resulting from misaligned expectations and new player integration are mucking things up. Paolo wanting to shift assist mix to other positions is a strategical miss while acquiring Tyus as a floor-general POC is a tactical whiff.

However, I'm actually buying Paolo and Mosley stock at a discount price right now. Paolo is a help value beast right now with assists + rebounds - turnovers looking amazing. Mosley is masterful at rotations in the long run and has already been making meaningful adjustments with Tyus mins disappearing and AB ramping up.

Mosley is humble enough to allow Prunty to run the offense and charismatic enough to control egos and manage the emotional rollercoaster.

Paolo making a defensive leap is happening. Franz is already a star. Bane is one of the top 15 three point shooters of all time and will bounce back. Suggs is ramping up. AB is still a lottery ticket. TDS is an offensive force off the bench. Moritz is a Santa Claus special. Mosley is a unicorn coach. Manifesting mode activated.

99 problems but the Magic long-term outlook ain't one.

[Fortune Teller]

Jeff decided several years ago that this team doesn't need a lead guard and apparently that's a hill he's going to die on.

[eyriq]

Jeff decided several years ago that this team doesn't need a lead guard and apparently that's a hill he's going to die on.

Good, it's the right call for this build. Winghub offense with defense in the backcourt. Build to your strengths.

[Furinkazan]

This is how it will most likely go if we stay on the struggle bus.

1. New coach
2. Retool move
3. New GM
4. Retool move
5. Tear down

6.2 decades rebuild

[Redwood]

Unpopular opinion but I think a big problem this team has is PB and Suggs just aren't as good as people thought they were, or want them to be. Franz is better than people thought he would be, but probably needs to be the guy if he's going to go from good to great.

People like to discuss having a lead guard, coaching, etc. But in the end if your main players aren't as good as you need them to be it doesn't matter. I've said it a million times, if you're a true star player you will easily dominate the league today. Defense has been removed from the game and the talent level is the worst it has ever been. Jordan would average 50 today, very easily, if he stayed healthy.

If I'm in charge both Suggs and PB are on the block, I'm building around Franz and I'm going old school with an actual center that can protect the rim. Team defense is swell, but it requires a level of coordination and basketball IQ most modern day players don't have, or care to have. It's all about chucking those three's and mailing it in on the defensive end.

Trade PB and Suggs, fire the entire coaching staff and front office, and start over with Franz as your guy. Or, spin our wheels for the next season or two, lying to ourselves about the quality of this team, watch PB force his way out, and risk turning Franz off this franchise in the process as well. Now you're back to square one with the same dumb asses running the show.

[Darth Magic]

Unpopular opinion but I think a big problem this team has is PB and Suggs just aren't as good as people thought they were, or want them to be. Franz is better than people thought he would be, but probably needs to be the guy if he's going to go from good to great.

People like to discuss having a lead guard, coaching, etc. But in the end if your main players aren't as good as you need them to be it doesn't matter. I've said it a million times, if you're a true star player you will easily dominate the league today. Defense has been removed from the game and the talent level is the worst it has ever been. Jordan would average 50 today, very easily, if he stayed healthy.

If I'm in charge both Suggs and PB are on the block, I'm building around Franz and I'm going old school with an actual center that can protect the rim. Team defense is swell, but it requires a level of coordination and basketball IQ most modern day players don't have, or care to have. It's all about chucking those three's and mailing it in on the defensive end.

Trade PB and Suggs, fire the entire coaching staff and front office, and start over with Franz as your guy. Or, spin our wheels for the next season or two, lying to ourselves about the quality of this team, watch PB force his way out, and risk turning Franz off this franchise in the process as well. Now you're back to square one with the same dumb asses running the show.

I like Franz and Bane the most on this team and if i were forced to choose I'd take that duo over PB and Suggs. I think Pablo is a better talent than Franz but I never liked his game. I just don't think that a high usage PF whose primary skill is scoring is a good foundation for a modern nba team. It affects how you build the team as well. With Franz and PB you can't really have a defensive wing to defend the other teams best wing player. I think Franz game is much more suitable to modern winning basketball. Suggs is not a point guard. He is a small 2 guard. Been saying it and will continue to say it.

With that said, I have not given up on this team. I still believe that a competent coach can make this team work. It's not a perfect roster but it's a talented roster. We just need a better offensive system to get the best out of the talent.

[Redwood]

Unpopular opinion but I think a big problem this team has is PB and Suggs just aren't as good as people thought they were, or want them to be. Franz is better than people thought he would be, but probably needs to be the guy if he's going to go from good to great.

People like to discuss having a lead guard, coaching, etc. But in the end if your main players aren't as good as you need them to be it doesn't matter. I've said it a million times, if you're a true star player you will easily dominate the league today. Defense has been removed from the game and the talent level is the worst it has ever been. Jordan would average 50 today, very easily, if he stayed healthy.

If I'm in charge both Suggs and PB are on the block, I'm building around Franz and I'm going old school with an actual center that can protect the rim. Team defense is swell, but it requires a level of coordination and basketball IQ most modern day players don't have, or care to have. It's all about chucking those three's and mailing it in on the defensive end.

Trade PB and Suggs, fire the entire coaching staff and front office, and start over with Franz as your guy. Or, spin our wheels for the next season or two, lying to ourselves about the quality of this team, watch PB force his way out, and risk turning Franz off this franchise in the process as well. Now you're back to square one with the same dumb asses running the show.

I like Franz and Bane the most on this team and if i were forced to choose I'd take that duo over PB and Suggs. I think Pablo is a better talent than Franz but I never liked his game. I just don't think that a high usage PF whose primary skill is scoring is a good foundation for a modern nba team. It affects how you build the team as well. With Franz and PB you can't really have a defensive wing to defend the other teams best wing player. I think Franz game is much more suitable to modern winning basketball. Suggs is not a point guard. He is a small 2 guard. Been saying it and will continue to say it.

With that said, I have given up on this team. I still believe that a competent coach can make this team work. It's not a perfect roster but it's a talented roster. We just need a better offensive system to get the best out of the talent.

I think the biggest issues with the team are coaching and lack of depth. AB is not a great player and never will be, I think he's probably already at his ceiling or close to it. Howard isn't even worth talking about, Jones is just fodder to fill out the roster, JI is a mystery, Goga is like WCJ in that he's incredibly average and will never be a difference maker, Penda and Richardson are question marks for the time being. TDS is really the best we have to offer, factoring in future potential, and I'd even put him above Suggs as a prospect because Suggs can't stay healthy and is a non-factor far more often than he should be even when he plays.

Franz, Bane, TDS, a new staff, a new front office with a boat load of picks (via trades), and a solid depth piece or two (again, via trades) is a pretty good start to yet another rebuild. But I think it's all necessary, unfortunately none of it will happen. Five years from now everyone will look back and wish it did.

[zaymon]

Unpopular opinion but I think a big problem this team has is PB and Suggs just aren't as good as people thought they were, or want them to be. Franz is better than people thought he would be, but probably needs to be the guy if he's going to go from good to great.

People like to discuss having a lead guard, coaching, etc. But in the end if your main players aren't as good as you need them to be it doesn't matter. I've said it a million times, if you're a true star player you will easily dominate the league today. Defense has been removed from the game and the talent level is the worst it has ever been. Jordan would average 50 today, very easily, if he stayed healthy.

If I'm in charge both Suggs and PB are on the block, I'm building around Franz and I'm going old school with an actual center that can protect the rim. Team defense is swell, but it requires a level of coordination and basketball IQ most modern day players don't have, or care to have. It's all about chucking those three's and mailing it in on the defensive end.

Trade PB and Suggs, fire the entire coaching staff and front office, and start over with Franz as your guy. Or, spin our wheels for the next season or two, lying to ourselves about the quality of this team, watch PB force his way out, and risk turning Franz off this franchise in the process as well. Now you're back to square one with the same dumb asses running the show.

I agree about PB. I have the same opinion about him since his second year. I just dont like the way he plays. I think its detrimental to the team. Numbers support it. Since his rookie year he was treated here like second coming Lebron. Now we reap the rewards.

I am not so negative on Suggs. He is used the wrong way. He should have limited role. Wild players like him need structure and we let him do whatever he wants.
Good athletes and perimeter defenders are very important. Look at OKC. Suggs could play there. I have my concers if Bane could. Players who are not good enough on defense and cant run offense are being butchered right now.

I have less and less faith in Weltman that he can make tough decisions but we will see.
Personally i would build around Franz and Suggs. TDS is nice piece but a reserve. We dont know yet about Jase and Noah.

Trading Bane after one season ? Thats tough. Propably trading Suggs would be easier. I just worry Bane/Franz core is not athletic enough.

[BadMofoPimp]

Suggs is the heart of this team and is going nowhere. Franz is developing into an elite two way player and watchout in the future. Bane will find his game and fit on the team. Won't find a better center than WCJ at his price range without overpaying which the Magic cannot afford to pay. They will work out the kinks, but I think they would have been better off resigning Cole on a multi year $5 mil per contract than Tyus, but I do like Tyus leadership more. Paolo doesn't need to think the team revolves around him, but I think he needs to at this juncture to take his game to another level by doing so on court like many other greats have done. The team overall is still developing and learning each other. Mose won't be around for long if he cannot find some coach to take the offensive load off his team. The great coaches do better delegating authority.