The "gather step" needs to be removed from the game ASAP.

[og15]

I am consistent. And prophet_of_rage is mischaracterizing my desired ruleset. Both things can be true.

Very possible, but being fair, there's no characterization of the rules that can accurately say that a one legged step through is a lifting (or switching of one decides to use that terminology) of pivot foot and all those other plays aren't.

Players do have to lift their pivot foot while the non pivot foot is down in all those plays. Now, as I said, we can ask for a ruleset that is specific to just the step through, which is fine, but it's simply making an exception, not following the same rule about pivot foot, which does clearly state that the pivot foot can be lifted to shoot or pass and has stated that for quite some time.

How do you think the rule can be consistently written/changed to disallow a one legged step through? Interested in the wording that would be applied

[floppymoose]

First off, this is a fan forum. I am not using NBA rulebook definitions. I am using common fan labeling of plays.

What I call a step through is off a terminated dribble. Most layups are not. So right away prophet_of_rage's question is DoA. If we talk about the layups that are off of terminated dribbles, my position is consistent: no switching of pivot feet.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

People keep pointing at the wrong problem.
The issue is not how you officiate the gather *step*.
The issue is what is considered a *gather* and how much players can carry the ball while keeping the dribble live.
It's not about that half step, it's how Giannis could *legally* take two steps after his last bounce, hands on the side of the ball, with no intention of ever putting it back on the floor, and have such move consedered a live dribble.

Maybe I'm nitpicking or maybe I don't understand, but he had the intention of putting it back on the floor depending how the defence is playing him, the defence didn't adjust therefore he didn't put it back on the floor, he's hand was on the side of the ball, which makes it legal for it to be considered possibie( I'm pretty sure ) as a continued live dribble.

the thing is that, today, they allow you to push ball horizontally forblong stretches and still call it a live dribble.
it has not always been like this, and it doesn't need to be like this.
sure, we can discuss if really had no intention of putting it back on the floor, in this case (he didn't). But there are many others when it's even more obvious. Imo it doesn't look good and it's against the spirit.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Y'all complaining clearly don't understand what you're complaining about. It's been very clearly explained in this thread, but you can't be bothered to understand because it's more fun to complain.

How hard is it to grasp the basic fact that you can take many steps between bounces of a ball without palming or carrying or using two hands. That's not a exploit, or rules problem. It's just how physics works. Stop crying about it.

I'm not understanding so a couple points to clarify.

1. I don't think anyone is talking about steps between dribbles its pretty obvious that you can take as many steps as you want between dribbles. What i don't understand is why continuing to dribble is treated the same as picking up your dribble? The steps between dribbles occur when the ball is not touching your hand. The "gather" step(s) take place when the ball is in your hand. To me these are totally different situations.

2. Someone earlier stated that if the ball is spinning in your hand or "floating" in your hand your dribble is still live. I strongly disagree with this. If you combine that interpretation with the NBA allowing to carry the ball by placing your hand underneath it it allows the player to seemingly take as many steps as they want after their last dribble. This is exactly what Giannis did. He takes 5! full steps after his last dribble.

3. These plays might be legal the way the rule is written in the NBA but I strongly believe if the "Giannis play" becomes used by most players the game will be unwatchable.

don't exaggerate your point, he took 115 less steps than the ones you are suggesting

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Just call the blatant travels, and there is no problem with the gather

that giannis move is text book gather and since the gather is exactly defined, giannis's move is acceptable, so the gather RULE has to be eliminated or amended

the steps allowed after a gather is 2STEPS which is utterly ridiculous

but this is about THE GATHER. the window for subjective opinion, seems to me,,,is where does the phrase "gaining control of the ball" start. it's the "gaining control of the ball" part that ENDS the gather. so i think they have to redefine "gaining control of the ball". i think when you are dribbling you have control - after that 1 1/2 steps. i think that was the old way, YES?


lol smh... today's players would be lost if the played 70s rules

to be clear, the gather is a moment, and the step you are making in that moment is the gather step. The ones following it are the 1-2. The once preceeding it are still live dribble.
Remove the gather step, and Giannis would legally take four steps instead of 5, after the last bounce.

[Lalouie]

Just call the blatant travels, and there is no problem with the gather

that giannis move is text book gather and since the gather is exactly defined, giannis's move is acceptable, so the gather RULE has to be eliminated or amended

the steps allowed after a gather is 2STEPS which is utterly ridiculous

but this is about THE GATHER. the window for subjective opinion, seems to me,,,is where does the phrase "gaining control of the ball" start. it's the "gaining control of the ball" part that ENDS the gather. so i think they have to redefine "gaining control of the ball". i think when you are dribbling you have control - after that 1 1/2 steps. i think that was the old way, YES?


lol smh... today's players would be lost if the played 70s rules

to clear, the gather is a moment, and the step you are makeing in that moment is the gather step. The once following it are the 1-2. The once preceeding it are still live dribble.
Remove the gather step.and Giannis would legally take four steps instead of 5, after the last bounce.

just hot tub time machine a few 1970s refs into 2025 - problem solved

[Nate505]

If whatever garbage Giannis was doing in that clip is technically within the rules, the rules need to be adjusted. That was as travelriffic as it gets.

[manlisten]

What's worse to me is carrying. At least there's language in the rulebook that permits multiple steps in some form and it's evolved over the years. Carrying is illegal as it ever was by rule yet refs completely disregard it even when it's extremely blatant and happens right in front of them. It's a complete joke.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

that giannis move is text book gather and since the gather is exactly defined, giannis's move is acceptable, so the gather RULE has to be eliminated or amended

the steps allowed after a gather is 2STEPS which is utterly ridiculous

but this is about THE GATHER. the window for subjective opinion, seems to me,,,is where does the phrase "gaining control of the ball" start. it's the "gaining control of the ball" part that ENDS the gather. so i think they have to redefine "gaining control of the ball". i think when you are dribbling you have control - after that 1 1/2 steps. i think that was the old way, YES?


lol smh... today's players would be lost if the played 70s rules

to be clear, the gather is a moment, and the step you are making in that moment is the gather step. The ones following it are the 1-2. The ones preceeding it are still live dribble.
Remove the gather step, and Giannis would legally take four steps instead of 5, after the last bounce.

just hot tub time machine a few 1970s refs into 2025 - problem solved

that might be going too far, it would make too many dribbling moves (that the fans love) illegal.
But something to stop a player from carrying the ball horizontally for several meters should be done, imo.

[Lalouie]

to be clear, the gather is a moment, and the step you are making in that moment is the gather step. The ones following it are the 1-2. The ones preceeding it are still live dribble.
Remove the gather step, and Giannis would legally take four steps instead of 5, after the last bounce.

just hot tub time machine a few 1970s refs into 2025 - problem solved

that might be going too far, it would make too many dribbling moves (that the fans love) illegal.
But something to stop a player from carrying the ball horizontally for several meters should be done, imo.

i don't think a half measure is possible because the carry is baked into EVERY player's dna. it's like breathing air

it will take some time but if you're a pro you deal with it as changing rules is a part of sports.

mine is a cold turkey move. you do it by alerting players it will be called. they have a whole summer to get used to it

[Dominator83]

All these young fellas would look like a bunch of plumbers if they couldn't carry the ball while they hop/skip/jump their way to the basket....

Or set moving screens

[Ryoga Hibiki]

just hot tub time machine a few 1970s refs into 2025 - problem solved

that might be going too far, it would make too many dribbling moves (that the fans love) illegal.
But something to stop a player from carrying the ball horizontally for several meters should be done, imo.

i don't think a half measure is possible because the carry is baked into EVERY player's dna. it's like breathing air

it will take some time but if you're a pro you deal with it as changing rules is a part of sports.

mine is a cold turkey move. you do it by alerting players it will be called. they have a whole summer to get used to it

the thing is deciding where we are drawing the line.
"carry is a carry" actually depends on limit you decide to implement.
stuff they used to do in the 70s was illegal in 50s.
What they did in 90s was illegal in the 70s.
What they do now was illegal in the 90s.
Moreover, in the 70s they were calling some BS travels, when things looked "strange" (like so proto-eurosteps).