How good or bad is Nikola Vucevic?

[Evil_Headband]

I think we can all agree that he is a flawed player -- notably defensively. What I'm curious about is how good or bad he is as a whole.

I have read many times from fans and some media that he is awful. It was not uncommon for fans to want him off the team -- either trading him for peanuts, buying him out, or even cutting him. I seem to recall people mentioning some advanced stats that seemed to justify that he was flat-out terrible but, after looking briefly, I can't find them. But I'm not very knowledgeable about the combined offense/defense advanced stats.

He absolutely drove me crazy two seasons ago when he was shooting 29% from three but, personally, I've tolerated him fine since last season. My sense is he's at least an OK overall player but my sense is not rooted in analytics. I just find it hard to believe that he's as bad as people suggest. I know there is a general mistrust of AK and Billy but it certainly seems like they think he's doing OK out there. I particularly trust Billy's judgment.

So that's basically my question. When you weigh both the offense and defense, how good or bad is he?

[GoBlue72391]

He would be fine if he was paired next to an elite rim protecting defensive 4.

[League Circles]

He's a genuinely very polished and good offensive player. He's not a "threat" but he's great at skill usage and execution.

He's been one of the worst defenders I've seen on this team, which says a lot from a team that played Eddy Curry, Carlos Boozer etc.

That said, out of absolutely nowhere this year he's actually putting forth semi-decent effort on D, and looks like the best I've ever seen him on both sides of the ball.

It's very strange.

Tough to grade someone that is just thoroughly competent on offense and pure trash on defense which is mostly what he's been IMO. But I try, and basically I roughly would call him an average NBA player, maybe a bit worse than average, for his career. But this year he's playing like a solid starter, maybe even a good one.

[nomorezorro]

he's very good when he's shooting 50% from three and scoring on 70% true shooting

he's flawed but good when he's shooting 40% from three and scoring on good efficiency

he is bad when he's shooting sub-35% from three and scoring on bad efficiency

we've mostly got the third one in chicago. the second one has generally been his career peak. it would be nice if he keeps doing the first one somehow.

[Ice Man]

He would be fine if he was paired next to an elite rim protecting defensive 4.

To slightly modify. If -

1) He has defensive protection from a shot blocking #4
2) He gets fed by an elite point guard
3) And he hits his 3 point shots at 40% (as he has recently)

Then he's more than fine, he's an outright stud.

Well, at least he can now rely on the second point. Giddey is making him look better, for sure.

[HomoSapien]

Vuc is a flawed player, and when you have flawed players you need to build in a way that hides their weaknesses. We never did that with Vuc, which always confused me.

One underrated trait about Vuc is that he barely misses any games. There are plenty of better centers out there, but Vuc starts to close the gap on some of those guys if he plays 15+ more games than them per season.

[Dan Z]

Vuc is a flawed player, and when you have flawed players you need to build in a way that hides their weaknesses. We never did that with Vuc, which always confused me.

One underrated trait about Vuc is that he barely misses any games. There are plenty of better centers out there, but Vuc starts to close the gap on some of those guys if he plays 15+ more games than them per season.

My guess is that when AK traded for him he didn't see all his flaws and hasn't been able to find the right player to hide them since that time.

[sco]

Great topic!

I think this board has said it many times. If he's making 3's and is a deemed a threat, he creates space on offense and helps the team. His defense has been historically limited by both a lack of rim protection and a general lack of defensive effort.

This season (and last season) he made his 3's. With Coby out, we are relying on him as a 2nd option guy on offense, which I think generally helps his game with more touches (and good touches because of Giddey). Also, as noted here, he is putting forth effort on the defensive end. He'll never be a rim protector but effort turns him from the worst defensive C in the league to maybe the 20th worst.

The thing that is unanswered is what happens when Coby comes back? I worry that we will benefit less from his offense and need defense more as (likely) Jones goes to the bench. Unless we go on a big losing streak, BD is not moving Vuc to a bench scoring role, which could actually work out for us.

[jordanwilliams6]

I always thought he would've paired well with a Giannis or AD type where they could cover his weaknesses a little.

[GuardianEnzo]

I think a couple of facts are indisputable. First, Vooch has been legit really good this season. The numbers agree with the eye test - he's a big reason we're 6-1. BPM isn't infallible but 5.4 isn't a total fluke.

Second, his shooting is absolutely not sustainable. No chance. And obviously he's going to be a lot less effective if he reverts to his career norms.

[Flopper]

When his legs are fresh and 3p shooting is on, he's awesome and is generally a net positive player. But he's been unable to sustain that level of production as a Bull after numerous hot starts like the current one and will most likely fall off as the season wears on. I'd love to see Billy keep him closer to 25mpg once Collins comes back.

[bledredwine]

He's our modern Boozer... super talented and can have great, impactful games, and can be inconsistent enough to annoy the heck out of you as well.

[FriedRise]

Vooch was decent too last year:

P36:
Last year: 21.3pts 11.6r 4a on 58/40/80 shooting
This year: 21.7pts 13.5r 4a on 64/48/84 shooting

These are all star numbers, especially if the Bulls continue to hover around the top 3 in the East. I don't expect him to shoot 48% from 3 all season, but if that number is closer to the 40% he had last year, that's still a huge production.

The difference has obviously been the addition of an elite PG in Giddey to the roster. He hadn't had that in all those years playing mostly ISO ball next to Zach and DeMar, minus the short stint when Zo was healthy.

[Indomitable]

He would be fine if he was paired next to an elite rim protecting defensive 4.

Noa and Matias

[Indomitable]

He's our modern Boozer... super talented and can have great, impactful games, and can be inconsistent enough to annoy the heck out of you as well.

Boozer did not have the same effect because he was no where near the shooter.

If Boozer could hit a 3 we might have beat the Heat.

[GoBlue72391]

He's our modern Boozer... super talented and can have great, impactful games, and can be inconsistent enough to annoy the heck out of you as well.

Boozer did not have the same effect because he was no where near the shooter.

If Boozer could hit a 3 we might have beat the Heat.

He probably could hit 3s at a somewhat decent rate, it's just that bigs didn't have the greenlight from deep back then like they do now. Some bigs shot 3s but they were still the exception back then.

[DuckIII]

It’s relevant to his trade value, but I don’t consider it relevant to the Bulls going forward. He doesn’t fit as our long term starting 5 and he’s old. Bye.

[madvillian]

Solid starter is his mean case this year. Also needs a new contract and doesn't fit age wise. I dunno. If he wants to come back on a value deal sure but there's opportunity cost there. I'd probably try and trade him but IRL it would gut the locker room to trade him if the Bulls are like 38-23 in late January.

He's grown close to the guys and it could tank our season. Lot of moving parts here.

[GoBlue72391]

Vooch was decent too last year:

P36:
Last year: 21.3pts 11.6r 4a on 58/40/80 shooting
This year: 21.7pts 13.5r 4a on 64/48/84 shooting

These are all star numbers, especially if the Bulls continue to hover around the top 3 in the East. I don't expect him to shoot 48% from 3 all season, but if that number is closer to the 40% he had last year, that's still a huge production.

The difference has obviously been the addition of an elite PG in Giddey to the roster. He hadn't had that in all those years playing mostly ISO ball next to Zach and DeMar, minus the short stint when Zo was healthy.

Is a player with B+ offense and F defense an all-star? That's been the problem the last few years.

Overall that's a net negative player. Doubly so because C is by far the most important position on defense.

Right now his offense is A+++ but you can't reasonably expect that shooting to sustain all season long.

[WindyCityBorn]

It’s relevant to his trade value, but I don’t consider it relevant to the Bulls going forward. He doesn’t fit as our long term starting 5 and he’s old. Bye.

Would you keep Collins over Vuc? He played great when while Vuc was out last season.