Is it time we discuss Isaac Okoro?

[Chi town]

Yeah he's a very good defender, and while not a 3pt threat, he's a great passer and has a nice push shot in the paint. Just that move could make a decent difference

And he’s a champion.

He has to be our #1 target. No way OKC will keep him. Sorber was drafted for same role but out hurt.

Problem is he won’t be traded this season. We should have enough space to sign him in the summer though.

Why would they let him walk? It is a team option. Sober has not played. They will let him walk after next season.

Hard cap and lux tax with SGA Chet and JDub extensions

[Chi town]

It will probably cost them like 100M to keep him on the roster due to the tax. That feels like a good reason to let him walk.

They right in their championship window. He will brought back.

I think they want their window to be pretty sustainable and at least a decade long, so I don't think they want to pay Hartensteins. They will get new Hartensteins and keep the lines moving using their recent and future picks, and filling in with bargain contracts, which Hartenstein will no longer be.

Exactly.

[Indomitable]

And he’s a champion.

He has to be our #1 target. No way OKC will keep him. Sorber was drafted for same role but out hurt.

Problem is he won’t be traded this season. We should have enough space to sign him in the summer though.

Why would they let him walk? It is a team option. Sober has not played. They will let him walk after next season.

Hard cap and lux tax with SGA Chet and JDub extensions

There is not an NBA style hardcap and you do not interfere with you frontline.

This is a bunch of hope and is a pointless without actual proof.

[KissedByaRose1]

Okoro is exactly the kind of guy we were missing the last 3 years/super valuable even when he's not hitting his shots. Just because P-Will/Terry/Phillips etc all had the body type/profile of defensive wings doesn't mean any of them every did it well consistently. He brings tons of energy, always is in the mix for tough rebounds and is our first high motor guy who doesn't suck in a long time. I hate Arturas more than anyone but I gave that trade a B when it happened and it's already a B+ in my book/one of is better transactions. He's not Luol Deng but if you had put a glue guy like Okoro/Deng on the 22/23/24 rosters i actually think we'd have won closer to the mid 40's.

The shooting will get respectable at some point, the real bummer is he's only 6'5. I'd also really appreciate if either he or Tre Jones switched their number so i'd stop getting confused in the heat of the moment but that's a personal problem.

[Jcool0]

Counting stats? he's also putting up 4.2 Turnovers, a single digit PER, shooting 32% from the field, his on-off is -6.2...

Tonight 8 assists 1 tov

Why are you picking out random stats? He also had 0 points on 0-3 shooting with 1 rebound.

We know Lonzo isn’t a good scorer but it’s also correct to say he hasn’t been good this year at all.

Why are you posting random stats? Cleveland is a top contender with multiple big time scorers, they aren't looking for him to get his points, which was never a strength when he was healthy. Saying he's been bad while doing typical Lonzo things means 1. You aren't paying attention or 2. You're being disingenuous.

[meekrab]

Tonight 8 assists 1 tov

Why are you picking out random stats? He also had 0 points on 0-3 shooting with 1 rebound.

We know Lonzo isn’t a good scorer but it’s also correct to say he hasn’t been good this year at all.

Why are you posting random stats? Cleveland is a top contender with multiple big time scorers, they aren't looking for him to get his points, which was never a strength when he was healthy. Saying he's been bad while doing typical Lonzo things means 1. You aren't paying attention or 2. You're being disingenuous.

But... he's objectively been very bad. The Cavs get demolished when Lonzo is on the court, which shouldn't be happening when you play for a "top contender." No amount of getting 8 assists makes up for the score going the wrong direction whenever you play.

[ghostinthepost1]

I've been really unimpressed with Okoro's defense, maybe I've just been spoiled watching Alex Caruso all those years but Okoro isn't averaging either a steal or a block per36.

Feels like we could be getting a lot more production out his minutes with someone else.

[2weekswithpay]

Okoro has never been a player who gets steals, blocks, or deflections. He doesn't have great size either, which makes him less impactful than other wing defenders. I wasn't against the trade, but I watched Josh Okogie be an impactful defender for the Rockets, and he was signed for the minimum, I believe.

I don't hate the trade, but it's poor asset management to pass on Smart and a FRP only to trade Lonzo for Okoro.

[GoBlue72391]

I've been really unimpressed with Okoro's defense, maybe I've just been spoiled watching Alex Caruso all those years but Okoro isn't averaging either a steal or a block per36.

Feels like we could be getting a lot more production out his minutes with someone else.

That's interesting, because in spite of the loss and 42 points from Giannis, I came away from this game being very impressed with his defense. When he was on the floor that is, as he got into foul trouble. There's more to defense than steals and blocks.

[locus7]

I've been really unimpressed with Okoro's defense, maybe I've just been spoiled watching Alex Caruso all those years but Okoro isn't averaging either a steal or a block per36.

Feels like we could be getting a lot more production out his minutes with someone else.

That's interesting, because in spite of the loss and 42 points from Giannis, I came away from this game being very impressed with his defense. When he was on the floor that is, as he got into foul trouble. There's more to defense than steals and blocks.

Plus it was an impossible task being asked to guard Giannis, though Okoro tried his heart out - Vuc did a much better job as Giannis couldn't simply overpower him. Okoro's far better defending wings & guards, and he stays with them like a terrier. Assuming he'll be on Spida next game, which will be a pretty good indication of his true impact.

[DuallyNoted]

Do you think he watches netflix during the season on flights or waits until the end?

[Red Larrivee]

I've been really unimpressed with Okoro's defense, maybe I've just been spoiled watching Alex Caruso all those years but Okoro isn't averaging either a steal or a block per36.

Feels like we could be getting a lot more production out his minutes with someone else.

He's averaging a steal and .8 blocks Per 36.

Caruso is an elite defensive playmaker. Okoro is not that, but his defense has been good and it's still valuable that he can guard 1-3, sometimes 4. That helps a lot with our cross matching. I agree that you can't just look at the playmaking aspect of it.

[madvillian]

He's just a role player being pressed into a bigger role because of injury for now. Has his uses, and you can tell AKME knew the Bulls needed some physicality by targeting him in the trade, but he's like a 9th man that for now has to start.

[ghostinthepost1]

10 games in and I think I am officially on the Okoro sucks bandwagon.

His defense is at best acceptable and often times outright bad. He's averaging 5.1 fouls per36 and is STILL under 1 block or 1 steal per36. Maybe I had wrong expectations for him but I thought he'd be an All-Defense 2nd team level defensive player and till now he's been a JAG.

Clearly not a starter in the NBA and honestly would've rather just kept Lonzo as a bench piece even with all his health issues.

[GoBlue72391]

I think Okoro's defense has been good, sometimes very good, but his style of defense isn't really reflected in the box score. He's more of a positioning, physical kind of defender.

He'll go as far as his shot will take him. He started the season shooting terribly at 23% over the first 5 games, but now 10 games in he's upped it to 34%, hitting 42% of his threes over the last 5 games. So his shot has started to come around.

But yeah, he's basically just a 9th or 10th man. He's never gonna be a guy you're satisfied with starting, but he serves his purpose.

[Jcool0]

Right now he is one of the worst overall players on Chicago. 11th out of 12 in PER. -7.2 on/off rating. 10th out of 12 in DBPM. DWS 8th out of 12. VORP 12 out of 12. Yet i bet Billy plays him like he is Alex Caruso all year.

[dougthonus]

Why are you posting random stats? Cleveland is a top contender with multiple big time scorers, they aren't looking for him to get his points, which was never a strength when he was healthy. Saying he's been bad while doing typical Lonzo things means 1. You aren't paying attention or 2. You're being disingenuous.

Fill me in on what someone paying attention would see with Lonzo. I'm not paying attention, but he's at career worst numbers in basically everything advanced, on/off, raw, per game, per minute, rate based, on both sides of the ball outside of assist rate (which itself is mitigated by way worse TO%). The Cavs are playing worse with him on the floor than basically anyone else on the roster.

I've only seen the Cavs games in preseason and regular season where they played us, so not watching, but he looks awful. Fine for the Cavs, they were just dumping salary, but doesn't look like he's doing anything for them.

[dougthonus]

Okoro has never been a player who gets steals, blocks, or deflections. He doesn't have great size either, which makes him less impactful than other wing defenders. I wasn't against the trade, but I watched Josh Okogie be an impactful defender for the Rockets, and he was signed for the minimum, I believe.

I don't hate the trade, but it's poor asset management to pass on Smart and a FRP only to trade Lonzo for Okoro.

I'd certainly rather have Smart and the pick too.

[Jcool0]

Why are you posting random stats? Cleveland is a top contender with multiple big time scorers, they aren't looking for him to get his points, which was never a strength when he was healthy. Saying he's been bad while doing typical Lonzo things means 1. You aren't paying attention or 2. You're being disingenuous.

Fill me in on what someone paying attention would see with Lonzo. I'm not paying attention, but he's at career worst numbers in basically everything advanced, on/off, raw, per game, per minute, rate based, on both sides of the ball outside of assist rate (which itself is mitigated by way worse TO%). The Cavs are playing worse with him on the floor than basically anyone else on the roster.

I've only seen the Cavs games in preseason and regular season where they played us, so not watching, but he looks awful. Fine for the Cavs, they were just dumping salary, but doesn't look like he's doing anything for them.

Not trying to say he's an All NBA player and shooting needs to get better but everything else is what you expect.

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[dougthonus]

Why are you posting random stats? Cleveland is a top contender with multiple big time scorers, they aren't looking for him to get his points, which was never a strength when he was healthy. Saying he's been bad while doing typical Lonzo things means 1. You aren't paying attention or 2. You're being disingenuous.

Fill me in on what someone paying attention would see with Lonzo. I'm not paying attention, but he's at career worst numbers in basically everything advanced, on/off, raw, per game, per minute, rate based, on both sides of the ball outside of assist rate (which itself is mitigated by way worse TO%). The Cavs are playing worse with him on the floor than basically anyone else on the roster.

I've only seen the Cavs games in preseason and regular season where they played us, so not watching, but he looks awful. Fine for the Cavs, they were just dumping salary, but doesn't look like he's doing anything for them.

Not trying to say he's an All NBA player and shooting needs to get better but everything else is what you expect.

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https://kingjamesgospel.com/cavaliers-already-learning-brutal-lonzo-ball-reality

Again, I'm not watching the Cavs game by game, but those are largely random tweets, one of probably his lone good shooting stretch of the year. I don't know the metrics all make him look really, really awful. Again, maybe that's not the case, but you'd think it would show up in something if it wasn't.

It's fine for the Cavs, they were just trying to save money, and maybe Lonzo just chews up a few minutes for them, but man I don't think he's killing it out there.