Just for fun: What do you do to go all in on this team?

[KissedByaRose1]

Coby alone doesn't get us anything good enough to help us win this year and I'm completely uninterested in attaching any draft picks. We should just chill and wait to see what we have for real after a 50 game sample size.

[League Circles]

Way too early of course, but the problem with good but not great teams (let's project us as that for this season for discussion purposes), is that they usually have some very specific deficiency that, if addressed, is almost certain to tinker with the unclear and fragile chemistry that has them good to begin with.

So let's say our critical weakness is defense at C, and we somehow out together enough soare parts such that we can get a significant upgrade on D over Vuc. That player, if he is actually available, is unlikely to be as good offensively as Vuc has been. So it may look like a good trade on paper, and then you do it and maybe get worse.

It's why it should never ever be taken for granted that you can or should just push all of your proverbial chips in to "get over the top" for whatever your critical weakness is.

A good rule of thumb IMO is that almost every plausible change to an nba roster is likely to result in a return to the mean. I still think teams should constantly look at potential trades as upgrades, it's just that if you're good, and give up parts of what made you good in a trade to try to get even better, and that other team electively gives you an alleged better piece, generically it's probably going to make you a little worse in reality.

Like maybe a guy like Myles turner could be a nice upgrade. But an actually agreed upon trade to bring him here (fantasy IMO) would be more likely to make us worse than better.

The Bulls are finally doing what I've wanted for many years. Try to win with depth. Not cause it's likely to beat teams with the best superstars, but because it's the most pragmatic way to build a good, high floor playoff team that is entertaining and flexible. Also gives you a lot of trade assets to be flexible if a miracle happens and a guy like Wemby wants to only play for the Bulls.

[2weekswithpay]

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[coldfish]

Guys like Lauri and Ja, come on. We don't need to be in some panicked hurry to shove square pegs into round holes again. We have great contracts, young evolving players with high ceilings, time and options.

Just let it happen and when (if internal development is not enough, and it might be if we are patient enough to find out) a really logical big time guy comes along, go for it. But the beauty of our situation, one of several beautiful things really, is that we absolutely do not need to rush these types of things.

There are two windows. The first window closes this trade deadline and that is Coby White's contract. If he is still on the roster after the trade deadline, the team is going to have to pay up a lot to keep him or lose him for nothing. Trading him and other assets for a guy who is on a longer deal makes some sense.

To a lesser extent this is true for Ayo, Vucevic, Collins and Huerter too. All unrestricted free agents.

The second window is Matas' contract. He will get a big fat extension in 2028. Giddey is the year after that.

Overall, my concern is the first window. I would hate to see the team do well this year, make no moves and then watch the whole roster get poached and replaced with lesser players in free agency, closing the door on the team before it really fully opened.

I agree about Ja and Markkanen but I do think the team should strongly consider a consolidation trade just this year.

Me too. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be of the "all in" variety, particularly for "all in" guys that don't make sense.

I know he's out for the season now, but an example would have been Kessler. He would have been a guy who, in my view, is pretty close to a perfect fit at the 5 for what we are trying to do. I.e., the "right" guy. We can consolidate for a guy like that. It doesn't have to be for a "star." I'd like to see:

(a) All-in trade for the exact right kind of superstar, and nothing less than that in an "all in" trade; or

(b) a smaller consolidation trade to address team need and anticipated style of play; or

(c) individual non-consolidation trades for draft assets or young risers who fit the anticipated style.

Agreed on most of that.

Regardless, I think it would be fair to say that the Bulls should make a good trade where they give up multiple assets for a better asset. They should not be pressured into making a bad trade, which would end up being worse than no trade at all. Rather just ride with what the team has than take on Ja IMO.

Its kind of fun to speculate on what a good trade actually looks like.

[Chi town]

CF - I think there are very few players that fit the upgraded asset and longer term fit.

[coldfish]

CF - I think there are very few players that fit the upgraded asset and longer term fit.

Agreed. You are looking for a younger guy. Teams don't trade them.

Still fun to discuss.

[ScrantonBulls]

CF - I think there are very few players that fit the upgraded asset and longer term fit.

Agreed. You are looking for a younger guy. Teams don't trade them.

Still fun to discuss.

Does anybody think trade revolving around Coby for Lively would be a realistic solution? Give or take a 1st rounder. I can see Nico wanting a PG/SG to keep them afloat while Kyrie is gone, then to pair with Kyrie. They need to complete NOW. AD isn't getting any younger.

1. Would the Mavs do that?
2. Do you think it would be a good move for the Bulls, or a negative?

If not Lively, maybe a trade for Gafford (not using Coby ideally). Not sure what he would cost, but we have some good depth at PG/SG that the Mavs could use. Especially if Huerter plays well.

[Chi town]

CF - I think there are very few players that fit the upgraded asset and longer term fit.

Agreed. You are looking for a younger guy. Teams don't trade them.

Still fun to discuss.

Yep.

I think it’s Hart in FA or a trade for an AK special…Younger player approaching his 2nd contract and being overlooked.

Rookies like Beringer and Malauch don’t get traded.
Lively is always hurt.
Missi?

I think Bulls will want a 5 out skilled C that can pass like Vuc. I think Noa and Buz will provide the defense and rim protection next to that said C. They can’t be a Vuc in rim protection but they also need to be able to play offense.

[coldfish]

CF - I think there are very few players that fit the upgraded asset and longer term fit.

Agreed. You are looking for a younger guy. Teams don't trade them.

Still fun to discuss.

Does anybody think trade revolving around Coby for Lively would be a realistic solution? Give or take a 1st rounder. I can see Nico wanting a PG/SG to keep them afloat while Kyrie is gone, then to pair with Kyrie. They need to complete NOW. AD isn't getting any younger.

1. Would the Mavs do that?
2. Do you think it would be a good move for the Bulls, or a negative?

If not Lively, maybe a trade for Gafford (not using Coby ideally). Not sure what he would cost, but we have some good depth at PG/SG that the Mavs could use. Especially if Huerter plays well.

The center discussion is interesting. From my perspective, the C for the Bulls has to shoot 3's. I'm not sure I would give anything for Lively, let alone Coby and a 1st.

There are many who disagree and I see their point. Having an active defensive C would certainly help things.

[Chi town]

Agreed. You are looking for a younger guy. Teams don't trade them.

Still fun to discuss.

Does anybody think trade revolving around Coby for Lively would be a realistic solution? Give or take a 1st rounder. I can see Nico wanting a PG/SG to keep them afloat while Kyrie is gone, then to pair with Kyrie. They need to complete NOW. AD isn't getting any younger.

1. Would the Mavs do that?
2. Do you think it would be a good move for the Bulls, or a negative?

If not Lively, maybe a trade for Gafford (not using Coby ideally). Not sure what he would cost, but we have some good depth at PG/SG that the Mavs could use. Especially if Huerter plays well.

The center discussion is interesting. From my perspective, the C for the Bulls has to shoot 3's. I'm not sure I would give anything for Lively, let alone Coby and a 1st.

There are many who disagree and I see their point. Having an active defensive C would certainly help things.

3s def keeps the floor spread. I think what more important is screens and passing ala Hartenstein and physicality in the post.

I think we draft and trade or sign the ideal fits… one being the offensive skill big much like Vuc and one is the defensive C athletic rim protector.

[coldfish]

Does anybody think trade revolving around Coby for Lively would be a realistic solution? Give or take a 1st rounder. I can see Nico wanting a PG/SG to keep them afloat while Kyrie is gone, then to pair with Kyrie. They need to complete NOW. AD isn't getting any younger.

1. Would the Mavs do that?
2. Do you think it would be a good move for the Bulls, or a negative?

If not Lively, maybe a trade for Gafford (not using Coby ideally). Not sure what he would cost, but we have some good depth at PG/SG that the Mavs could use. Especially if Huerter plays well.

The center discussion is interesting. From my perspective, the C for the Bulls has to shoot 3's. I'm not sure I would give anything for Lively, let alone Coby and a 1st.

There are many who disagree and I see their point. Having an active defensive C would certainly help things.

3s def keeps the floor spread. I think what more important is screens and passing ala Hartenstein and physicality in the post.

I think we draft and trade or sign the ideal fits… one being the offensive skill big much like Vuc and one is the defensive C athletic rim protector.

From my perspective, the shooting C is taking the opposing C out of the lane. They play 5 out where there is frequently no one in the paint. The Bulls are getting a ton of drives and backdoor cuts as a result.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/points-in-paint-per-game

Bulls are second in points in the paint and IMO, a center like lively pretty much ends that.

[Senor Chang]

Does anybody think trade revolving around Coby for Lively would be a realistic solution? Give or take a 1st rounder. I can see Nico wanting a PG/SG to keep them afloat while Kyrie is gone, then to pair with Kyrie. They need to complete NOW. AD isn't getting any younger.

1. Would the Mavs do that?
2. Do you think it would be a good move for the Bulls, or a negative?

If not Lively, maybe a trade for Gafford (not using Coby ideally). Not sure what he would cost, but we have some good depth at PG/SG that the Mavs could use. Especially if Huerter plays well.

The center discussion is interesting. From my perspective, the C for the Bulls has to shoot 3's. I'm not sure I would give anything for Lively, let alone Coby and a 1st.

There are many who disagree and I see their point. Having an active defensive C would certainly help things.

3s def keeps the floor spread. I think what more important is screens and passing ala Hartenstein and physicality in the post.

I think we draft and trade or sign the ideal fits… one being the offensive skill big much like Vuc and one is the defensive C athletic rim protector.

That’s a good idea and one in which the front office should have implemented the minute we acquired vuc. It’s not Vuc’s fault the bulls haven’t paired him up with a competent defensive center to offset Vuc’s defensive shortcomings.

With or without vuc we will still need a center who can spread the floor. I cannot imagine our free flowing offense being as free as it is without a stretch center to open up the lanes. As much as giddy makes everyone’s lives better on offense with his passing, having a center who can knock down shots from deep also makes everyone’s lives better on that end. This is why the guy i really want on this team is JJJ. Everyone can dream.


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[Red Larrivee]

I'm just looking around, and there's a very short list of starting centers with defensive value who can hit the three.

- Bam (FA - 2029)
- Jackson Jr. (FA - 2030)
- Porzingis (FA - 2026)
- Turner (FA - 2029)

Even then, Jackson and Porzingis are more PF in game.

Porzingis is the only one who is realistic in the immediate future, but I wouldn't want a defense where he's the anchor. Health is also an issue. There's really no perfect or exciting option with the names above. Bam may be closer to untouchable in Miami. Turner is overrated at times.

My guess is either:

1. They have to draft that player.
2. Make an offense work with a rim runner at C.
3. Split minutes between a floor spacer and a defensive center.

[coldfish]

I'm just looking around, and there's a very short list of starting centers with defensive value who can hit the three.

- Bam (FA - 2029)
- Jackson Jr. (FA - 2030)
- Porzingis (FA - 2026)
- Turner (FA - 2029)

Even then, Jackson and Porzingis are more PF in game.

Porzingis is the only one who is realistic in the immediate future, but I wouldn't want a defense where he's the anchor. Health is also an issue. There's really no perfect or exciting option with the names above. Bam may be closer to untouchable in Miami. Turner is overrated at times.

My guess is either:

1. They have to draft that player.
2. Make an offense work with a rim runner at C.
3. Split minutes between a floor spacer and a defensive center.

+1.

It should be noted that the two names I pushed in this thread are Bam and JJJ. That's for a reason.

Agreed on Porzingis injury history.

TBH the most logical thing at this point is to retain Vucevic. Lots of people will be unhappy with that but there really aren't a lot of good options.

The next spots to look to upgrade IMO would be Okoro and Coby (maybe, will be interesting). Also, Matas doesn't have to be a 4. Effectively the upgrade position can be a 2, 3, 4 or 5 and the rest of the roster can fit around him. The only position I would stay away from would be a ball dominant 1.

[coldfish]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/282682/Rival-Teams-Watching-Jaren-Jackson-Jr-Availability-If-Grizzlies-Rebuild

[Indomitable]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/282682/Rival-Teams-Watching-Jaren-Jackson-Jr-Availability-If-Grizzlies-Rebuild

No I do not want overrated cancer.

You are locked once you do

[dougthonus]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/282682/Rival-Teams-Watching-Jaren-Jackson-Jr-Availability-If-Grizzlies-Rebuild

Looking at JJJ's contract again, on the one hand, good fit (assuming the start to this season is an aberration), but the contract is negative enough that I wouldn't give up anything in terms of picks to get him.

[Senor Chang]

I'm just looking around, and there's a very short list of starting centers with defensive value who can hit the three.

- Bam (FA - 2029)
- Jackson Jr. (FA - 2030)
- Porzingis (FA - 2026)
- Turner (FA - 2029)

Even then, Jackson and Porzingis are more PF in game.

Porzingis is the only one who is realistic in the immediate future, but I wouldn't want a defense where he's the anchor. Health is also an issue. There's really no perfect or exciting option with the names above. Bam may be closer to untouchable in Miami. Turner is overrated at times.

My guess is either:

1. They have to draft that player.
2. Make an offense work with a rim runner at C.
3. Split minutes between a floor spacer and a defensive center.

#3 should be the easiest to accomplish. It shouldn’t be too difficult to find a center who can spread the floor and also a center who can defend the paint. The hard part is finding someone who can do both. This last draft for example had a number of center prospects who could either shoot or defend the paint but nobody who could reliably do both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chi town]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/282682/Rival-Teams-Watching-Jaren-Jackson-Jr-Availability-If-Grizzlies-Rebuild

50M per year for JJJ.

No way José.

He’s gettable by trade and would be a solid fit but I’m not paying that contract as it will cost us depth.

[Chi town]

I'm just looking around, and there's a very short list of starting centers with defensive value who can hit the three.

- Bam (FA - 2029)
- Jackson Jr. (FA - 2030)
- Porzingis (FA - 2026)
- Turner (FA - 2029)

Even then, Jackson and Porzingis are more PF in game.

Porzingis is the only one who is realistic in the immediate future, but I wouldn't want a defense where he's the anchor. Health is also an issue. There's really no perfect or exciting option with the names above. Bam may be closer to untouchable in Miami. Turner is overrated at times.

My guess is either:

1. They have to draft that player.
2. Make an offense work with a rim runner at C.
3. Split minutes between a floor spacer and a defensive center.

AK was very high on Beringer and he would have been the pick if Noa was gone supposedly.

Beringer has no offensive talent outside of lobs and offensive rebounds. We’ve never seen Giddey with a lob threat 5. Buz is a high flier and Noa will be too.

I like the idea of getting both a 3pt floor spacer with skills like Vuc and a defensive rim runner like Beringer.

Draft - Offensice - Cenac Ngongba Defensive - Q

FA - Offensive Hart

Trade - Beringer

I think we resign Vuc and pay up for Coby and Ayo. I bet we draft a big like Ngongba to take over for Vuc. I think our frontline D will come from Buz and Noa not necessarily our C.