Who do you think wins MVP this season? (2025-26 NBA MVP Discussion Thread)

[juanc]

From nba rapm, teams score 5.2 % better than league average at the rim when is on the court.
Players also score on Jokic 4% better than league average, which is bottom 2nd percentile in the league for centers and a lot worse than last season.

Hard to deny his overall greatness, but his lack of proper game shape is hurting his defense a lot. He is one of many candidates.

His defense hasn't been good, no doubt about that. The on/off numbers are very illuminating tho. We've been hearing for the better part of a decade, that Jokic has inflated on/off because Nuggets play unplayable guys at backup C.

This year, he's got a competent, above avg. backup and Jonas has been playing decently too and still...Jokic's on/off is ridicilous as ever


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Wrong, his defense has been great this season. Nuggets are 4th in the NBA in DEFRTG with 110. He has 2nd best defrtg among Nuggets rotation players with 105.9, behind AG with 104.4. With him off the court their defrtg is 116.9, 11 points worst.

So what doest this show us? That a player - center can play great defense even if his % numbers as defending the rim are bad.
Simmilar as he can be one of the leaders in TS%, while shooting 30% from 3.
Numbers don't lie. Question is will we look to all numbers or just some numbers.

His substitution is Jonas, who is probably one of the worst defensive centers this year(especially this years version of him), that's probably the biggest reason for a positive DEFRTG.
But yeah, Jokic has been a solid defender for the past few years.

[MMyhre]

From nba rapm, teams score 5.2 % better than league average at the rim when is on the court.
Players also score on Jokic 4% better than league average, which is bottom 2nd percentile in the league for centers and a lot worse than last season.

Hard to deny his overall greatness, but his lack of proper game shape is hurting his defense a lot. He is one of many candidates.

His defense hasn't been good, no doubt about that. The on/off numbers are very illuminating tho. We've been hearing for the better part of a decade, that Jokic has inflated on/off because Nuggets play unplayable guys at backup C.

This year, he's got a competent, above avg. backup and Jonas has been playing decently too and still...Jokic's on/off is ridicilous as ever


Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

Wrong, his defense has been great this season. Nuggets are 4th in the NBA in DEFRTG with 110. He has 2nd best defrtg among Nuggets rotation players with 105.9, behind AG with 104.4. With him off the court their defrtg is 116.9, 11 points worst.

So what doest this show us? That a player - center can play great defense even if his % numbers as defending the rim are bad.
Simmilar as he can be one of the leaders in TS%, while shooting 30% from 3.
Numbers don't lie. Question is will we look to all numbers or just some numbers.

Nope, you just picked some other numbers and ignored the bad ones.
Wembanyana, a really great defender unlike Jokic, is making people shoot -9 % worse when he contests them, top 92nd percentile for centers. Jokic is in the bottom 2nd percentile.
Wemby makes people shoot -12.3 % worse at the rim, while Jokic lets people shoot +3.8 % better.. Against Jokic people shoot an amount of shots at the rim that is league average, Wemby makes teams shoot 7.6 % less shots at the rim..

If Jokic wants to win MVP it's going to be on offense and getting in better shape for defense. He is not a positive defender.. even if he still is smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Jokic is a smart defender but not a good one. He’s big and his BBIQ gets him a lot of steals and deflections.

But he can’t move in space well or protect the rim.

[Yuri36]

Luka has missed 4 of the first 9 games. This always felt like the most obvious result of him hooping all summer.

Does anyone seriously think he won’t miss at least 14 of the next 73 games?

Yes, anyone who doesn't have SGA's or OKC's picture in their avatar

[MoneyTalks41890]

Luka has missed 4 of the first 9 games. This always felt like the most obvious result of him hooping all summer.

Does anyone seriously think he won’t miss at least 14 of the next 73 games?

Yes, anyone who doesn't have SGA's or OKC's picture in their avatar

I don’t think anyone outside the Luka fanboys thinks he will stay healthy enough. Go ahead and put it to a poll.

[BelgradeNugget]

His defense hasn't been good, no doubt about that. The on/off numbers are very illuminating tho. We've been hearing for the better part of a decade, that Jokic has inflated on/off because Nuggets play unplayable guys at backup C.

This year, he's got a competent, above avg. backup and Jonas has been playing decently too and still...Jokic's on/off is ridicilous as ever


Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

Wrong, his defense has been great this season. Nuggets are 4th in the NBA in DEFRTG with 110. He has 2nd best defrtg among Nuggets rotation players with 105.9, behind AG with 104.4. With him off the court their defrtg is 116.9, 11 points worst.

So what doest this show us? That a player - center can play great defense even if his % numbers as defending the rim are bad.
Simmilar as he can be one of the leaders in TS%, while shooting 30% from 3.
Numbers don't lie. Question is will we look to all numbers or just some numbers.

His substitution is Jonas, who is probably one of the worst defensive centers this year(especially this years version of him), that's probably the biggest reason for a positive DEFRTG.
But yeah, Jokic has been a solid defender for the past few years.

Jonas as his backup is definitely explanation for the fact Nuggets are 11 pts per 100 worst defensively when Jokic is off, Jonas is on.
But despite having Jonas as his backup whos DEFRTG is 120.1, Nuggets are 4th best defense in the NBA. You know why? Because Jokic's DEFRTG is 105.9. Second best on Nuggets behind AG with 104.4. For comparation OKC, 1st defense in the league, as a team has DEFRTG of 105.6

[BelgradeNugget]

Jokic is a smart defender but not a good one. He’s big and his BBIQ gets him a lot of steals and deflections.

But he can’t move in space well or protect the rim.

You are right 100% about what he is good at and what he is bad at. Can't move in space, and protect the rim. Simmilar to his skillset on offense. Can't run, can't jump. But somehow he is great on offense.
As you noted BBIQ gets him a lot of steals and deflections. But his great positioning may some time prevent backdoor cuts, and turn layups into midrange jumpers or floaters. Also great def rebounder. As individual defender in space he is bad. Defending the postups, he is good with his strenght and size. You can't build your teams defense around his skillset, like you can around Chet, Wemby...but he can be very good team defender, which is the case this year.

BTW last season him and whole Denver team played bad defense, but there is explanation for that too...

[BelgradeNugget]

His defense hasn't been good, no doubt about that. The on/off numbers are very illuminating tho. We've been hearing for the better part of a decade, that Jokic has inflated on/off because Nuggets play unplayable guys at backup C.

This year, he's got a competent, above avg. backup and Jonas has been playing decently too and still...Jokic's on/off is ridicilous as ever


Sent from my SM-A055F using RealGM mobile app

Wrong, his defense has been great this season. Nuggets are 4th in the NBA in DEFRTG with 110. He has 2nd best defrtg among Nuggets rotation players with 105.9, behind AG with 104.4. With him off the court their defrtg is 116.9, 11 points worst.

So what doest this show us? That a player - center can play great defense even if his % numbers as defending the rim are bad.
Simmilar as he can be one of the leaders in TS%, while shooting 30% from 3.
Numbers don't lie. Question is will we look to all numbers or just some numbers.

Nope, you just picked some other numbers and ignored the bad ones.
Wembanyana, a really great defender unlike Jokic, is making people shoot -9 % worse when he contests them, top 92nd percentile for centers. Jokic is in the bottom 2nd percentile.
Wemby makes people shoot -12.3 % worse at the rim, while Jokic lets people shoot +3.8 % better.. Against Jokic people shoot an amount of shots at the rim that is league average, Wemby makes teams shoot 7.6 % less shots at the rim..

If Jokic wants to win MVP it's going to be on offense and getting in better shape for defense. He is not a positive defender.. even if he still is smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc.

This is not the first time you are pointing out his bad numbers. We all know about his rim protection. And I don't see a reason to compare him to Wemby on defense.
Question is how him being smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc stand against his bad rim protection.

Well numbers that try to measure everything against each other on D point to him being very, very good defender this year, as much as you try to ignore it. But the time will tell.

[MMyhre]

Wrong, his defense has been great this season. Nuggets are 4th in the NBA in DEFRTG with 110. He has 2nd best defrtg among Nuggets rotation players with 105.9, behind AG with 104.4. With him off the court their defrtg is 116.9, 11 points worst.

So what doest this show us? That a player - center can play great defense even if his % numbers as defending the rim are bad.
Simmilar as he can be one of the leaders in TS%, while shooting 30% from 3.
Numbers don't lie. Question is will we look to all numbers or just some numbers.

Nope, you just picked some other numbers and ignored the bad ones.
Wembanyana, a really great defender unlike Jokic, is making people shoot -9 % worse when he contests them, top 92nd percentile for centers. Jokic is in the bottom 2nd percentile.
Wemby makes people shoot -12.3 % worse at the rim, while Jokic lets people shoot +3.8 % better.. Against Jokic people shoot an amount of shots at the rim that is league average, Wemby makes teams shoot 7.6 % less shots at the rim..

If Jokic wants to win MVP it's going to be on offense and getting in better shape for defense. He is not a positive defender.. even if he still is smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc.

This is not the first time you are pointing out his bad numbers. We all know about his rim protection. And I don't see a reason to compare him to Wemby on defense.
Question is how him being smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc stand against his bad rim protection.

Well numbers that try to measure everything against each other on D point to him being very, very good defender this year, as much as you try to ignore it. But the time will tell.

Those numbers are more relevant to your performance on D, and it's not just rim protection, it's how people score 1v1 against Jokic. Team defensive rating can be affected by 4 other good defenders helping to make up for Jokic weak defensive mobility/coverage etc.

[TheGeneral99]

Still crazy Jokic is averaging 24ppg, 13rpg and 12apg on 61%fg.

[BelgradeNugget]

Nope, you just picked some other numbers and ignored the bad ones.
Wembanyana, a really great defender unlike Jokic, is making people shoot -9 % worse when he contests them, top 92nd percentile for centers. Jokic is in the bottom 2nd percentile.
Wemby makes people shoot -12.3 % worse at the rim, while Jokic lets people shoot +3.8 % better.. Against Jokic people shoot an amount of shots at the rim that is league average, Wemby makes teams shoot 7.6 % less shots at the rim..

If Jokic wants to win MVP it's going to be on offense and getting in better shape for defense. He is not a positive defender.. even if he still is smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc.

This is not the first time you are pointing out his bad numbers. We all know about his rim protection. And I don't see a reason to compare him to Wemby on defense.
Question is how him being smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc stand against his bad rim protection.

Well numbers that try to measure everything against each other on D point to him being very, very good defender this year, as much as you try to ignore it. But the time will tell.

Those numbers are more relevant to your performance on D, and it's not just rim protection, it's how people score 1v1 against Jokic. Team defensive rating can be affected by 4 other good defenders helping to make up for Jokic weak defensive mobility/coverage etc.

While Jokic as smart defender can help other 4 teammates defend better with his positioning, preventing back door cuts and easy passes in pnr, boxing out, rebounding, steels, deflections...
As 1v1 in the post he is very good. Against wings and guards, bad.

But here is a question. How terrible as offensive player was Klay Thompson in GSW? One of the worst guards as ball handler. Couldn't drive and create. But I wouldn't say he was bad in system that made him very good, while he was making system great. Draymond without Steph on O was bad, but Steph without Draymond wasn't as good. Some players on O are system by themself, like Steph, Jokic...

Some players on D are system by themself like Wemby, Rudy, Chet. But some players can make system better while not being best by themselves, and Jokic is doing exectly that on D.

Again if other teammates are making Jokic look good on DEFRTG, how is he 2nd best among them?

[zero rings]

Nope, you just picked some other numbers and ignored the bad ones.
Wembanyana, a really great defender unlike Jokic, is making people shoot -9 % worse when he contests them, top 92nd percentile for centers. Jokic is in the bottom 2nd percentile.
Wemby makes people shoot -12.3 % worse at the rim, while Jokic lets people shoot +3.8 % better.. Against Jokic people shoot an amount of shots at the rim that is league average, Wemby makes teams shoot 7.6 % less shots at the rim..

If Jokic wants to win MVP it's going to be on offense and getting in better shape for defense. He is not a positive defender.. even if he still is smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc.

This is not the first time you are pointing out his bad numbers. We all know about his rim protection. And I don't see a reason to compare him to Wemby on defense.
Question is how him being smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc stand against his bad rim protection.

Well numbers that try to measure everything against each other on D point to him being very, very good defender this year, as much as you try to ignore it. But the time will tell.

Those numbers are more relevant to your performance on D, and it's not just rim protection, it's how people score 1v1 against Jokic. Team defensive rating can be affected by 4 other good defenders helping to make up for Jokic weak defensive mobility/coverage etc.

Well, if you only focus on Jokic’s poor rim protection and ignore everything he’s good at, you can convince yourself he’s some terrible defender.

But then you watch someone like Jonas, an actual defensive sieve, and you realize that isn’t the case. Jokic is too good at too many things to be considered a truly bad defender.

The Nuggets have actually fared pretty well on defense over the years considering the lack of defensive talent on the team.

[AleksandarN]

It’s crazy all we heard is that Jokic’s on and offs were juiced because of no backup center and the bench sucks. Well the Nuggets has a way better bench and a legit Backup center in Val and Jokic’s net rating is EVEN higher. So what’s the excuse now?

Read on Twitter

[AleksandarN]

International Big 5 stats (Joel, who was part of it, is replaced by Wemby, stats rounded up or down depending)

Joker: 25/14/12 on 70%TS
Luka: 40/11/9 on 64% TS
Giannis: 32/13/6 on 70% TS
Shai: 33/5/6 on 64% TS
Wemby: 26/13/3/4 on 60% TS

Mind-boggling stuff.

Jokic's and Giannis efficiency is just nuts

Jokic is actually shooting just 30% from 3, his efficiency is fueled by shooting a pedestrian 77%(!) from two point range, lol

On top of that Jokic is shooting 40 percent from three after that disastrous first game where he went 2/13 or something from 3. I expect his efficiency will go up even higher

[Wolfgang630]

NBA mvp list sucks. SGA should not be first. Luka should not be 5th

[AleksandarN]

Jokic is a smart defender but not a good one. He’s big and his BBIQ gets him a lot of steals and deflections.

But he can’t move in space well or protect the rim.

You are right 100% about what he is good at and what he is bad at. Can't move in space, and protect the rim. Simmilar to his skillset on offense. Can't run, can't jump. But somehow he is great on offense.
As you noted BBIQ gets him a lot of steals and deflections. But his great positioning may some time prevent backdoor cuts, and turn layups into midrange jumpers or floaters. Also great def rebounder. As individual defender in space he is bad. Defending the postups, he is good with his strenght and size. You can't build your teams defense around his skillset, like you can around Chet, Wemby...but he can be very good team defender, which is the case this year.

BTW last season him and whole Denver team played bad defense, but there is explanation for that too...

He also a great defensive quarterback. He organizes the defense calls out plays to his teammates he like Draymond in that way. He gets his teammates in positions to defend.

[Cubbies2120]

Excluding the disasterclass of game 1 of the season, he's been coasting through the last 6 games, casually putting up

25ppg
13.5 rpg
12.3 apg
2.5 spg
1 bpg

on 69% (!) shooting (39% from 3), and letting his teammates eat, shooting less than 14 times a game.

In an ideal world, the Nuggets are able to keep Jokic to < 16 shots a game for the regular season, let him work himself into game shape and not have the team fall apart when he's on the bench.

[AleksandarN]

Nope, you just picked some other numbers and ignored the bad ones.
Wembanyana, a really great defender unlike Jokic, is making people shoot -9 % worse when he contests them, top 92nd percentile for centers. Jokic is in the bottom 2nd percentile.
Wemby makes people shoot -12.3 % worse at the rim, while Jokic lets people shoot +3.8 % better.. Against Jokic people shoot an amount of shots at the rim that is league average, Wemby makes teams shoot 7.6 % less shots at the rim..

If Jokic wants to win MVP it's going to be on offense and getting in better shape for defense. He is not a positive defender.. even if he still is smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc.

This is not the first time you are pointing out his bad numbers. We all know about his rim protection. And I don't see a reason to compare him to Wemby on defense.
Question is how him being smart and good at reading the game, getting steals etc stand against his bad rim protection.

Well numbers that try to measure everything against each other on D point to him being very, very good defender this year, as much as you try to ignore it. But the time will tell.

Those numbers are more relevant to your performance on D, and it's not just rim protection, it's how people score 1v1 against Jokic. Team defensive rating can be affected by 4 other good defenders helping to make up for Jokic weak defensive mobility/coverage etc.

Also by BBIQ. Jokic often coordinates the defense. Tell players where to go and often calls defensive plays if you watch him play. Yes he is not a great individual defender but he is severely underrated team defender because of his awareness.

[Beethoven]

Luka if you're objectively speaking

[Exp0sed]

Luka if you're objectively speaking

Luka has been the best per game but MVP is a commulative award, he played just 4 or 5 games..has he been better in those 4-5 games than guys like Jokic, Wemby, SGA or Giannis have been in 7 or 8 games? hardly..