Raptors @ Hawks | Friday Nov 7th 730 EST | TSN

[bape_lovers]

we bring the cup home to compensate the lost of the jays

Might be a must win game tbh
Us and the Hawks 1-0 in cup standings our next two games after are at home vs Wizards and Pacers

Winning this game puts us in great position to go 4-0 and win our group

[Spida888]

Yep this team deeep. Giannis would take this team to a chip

I still think Scottie + Ochai + Walter + picks gets it done (if Giannis goes on the market)

IQ/Shead
RJ/Dick/Lawson
Ingram/Battle
Giannis/CMB or Mamu
Poeltl/Mamu or CMB

No it wouldnt cause Rockets, Spurs and Knicks can beat the offer easily. And thats just the teams i have in my head right now. Pretty sure there are others. If we want Giannis, it will be more than just those 3 players and some picks.

There is also the small detail of Giannis never agreeing to go to Toronto. Even all Bucks fans agree that if he does get traded, it will absolutely be to a city he wants to go to and approves. Toronto won't be on that list, and wouldn't be even if Masai was still there.

IIRC there might have been an ESPN report saying Giannis has some interest to play for the Knicks but NY can't trade any FRPs until maybe 2033. Giannis would want to stay in the east if he's ring chasing.

[Madvillainy2004]

So? Shooting 40% from 3 in a season is legitimately impressive, especially on bad teams where you might not as many opens look as you would on a good one.

He probably is not a 40% guy, but he was 37% in college and is 35% in the NBA so he is still a positive shooter. FWIW - Walter was a 34% college guy


Hate Ochai all you want - but McCaw is a really, really bad comp.

McCaw was a horrible shooter (so already the offensive side is a bad example), and was probably similar-ish to Agbaji on D. McCaw with a 3 is a good NBA role player. McCaW was already otu of the league at 25. Agabji will be here for another 5+ years

Yeah but mccaw could handle the ball a bit. Agbaji is nothing on offense other than a spot up shooter.

McCaw was a bottom-5 player in the NBA.

Respect Mccaw who hit a 3 in game 1 of the 2019 finals

[aminiaturebuddha]

Well this thread has nothing to do with the Hawks game tonight. It's become either the McCaw vs Ochai thread (something I never thought I'd see) or yet another Giannis trade proposal thread.

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah but mccaw could handle the ball a bit. Agbaji is nothing on offense other than a spot up shooter.

McCaw was a bottom-5 player in the NBA.

Respect Mccaw who hit a 3 in game 1 of the 2019 finals

PAT MCCAW

A guy who went -14 in the finals.. in 12 minutes of gametime

[UnbelievablyRAW]

On the free agent market Donte took a 4-year MLE, and in a couple years is going to get absolute bank. Obviously I’d prefer Donte over really any of our 2-guards, but it’s not feasible. Hes going to sign like a 4/100 deal.

Joe is also one of the better 3 point specialists in the league, but he’s a liability on defence.

I’d rather have Giannis and KD instead of Barnes and Ingram as well. Maybe swap IQ for Curry and Poeltl for Holmgren? Why didn’t we just think of getting better players?

It’s like you haven’t read the things I’ve posted at all and are completely missing the point.

IJ is not a liability on defense, he plays decent minutes on one of the NBAs best defences. Donte and IJ were just 2 examples and the list is not exhaustive. I brought them up to counter your point that only guys making $25 million+ can do more than hit an open 3 and guard at a decent level. Not sure how that isn’t a response to your comment

Your reductive argument at the end doesn’t reflect my point either. My point is that Ochai hasn’t shown evidence that he’s more than a 3/4th string guard and there are far better players at his position around the league who are making less than 20 million annually and can do more than 1.5 things well in the NBA.

More off the top of my head include Ty Jerome, NAW and Strus.

The league is too talented to hold onto a guard with almost no guard skills and pretend he’s a winning player long term. There is a reason he will probably be benched moving forward with other guys ahead of him in the rotation as we actually try to win games

[SFour]

McCaw was a bottom-5 player in the NBA.

Respect Mccaw who hit a 3 in game 1 of the 2019 finals

PAT MCCAW

A guy who went -14 in the finals.. in 12 minutes of gametime

Proud Mccaw hater checking in....it's no surprise he was out of the league after his stint with Toronto

[GoRapstheoriginal]

GO RAPTORS GO! LETS GO RAPTORS! WE GOT THIS! #TEAM POSITIVEPOLLY! ALL ABOARD! CHOO CHOO! ! ! !

[bboyskinnylegs]

will we unleash Battle on the NBA Cup again?

[C_Money]

Respect Mccaw who hit a 3 in game 1 of the 2019 finals

PAT MCCAW

A guy who went -14 in the finals.. in 12 minutes of gametime

Proud Mccaw hater checking in....it's no surprise he was out of the league after his stint with Toronto

My opinion on Nurse started to change when he gave McCaw 6th man type minutes while he clearly didn’t belong in the NBA lol.

[Van_Trump]

I will be double checking those Atlanta scorekeepers.

Hope the team continues to gel and we get another comfortable victory.

[YogurtProducer]

IJ is not a liability on defense, he plays decent minutes on one of the NBAs best defences. Donte and IJ were just 2 examples and the list is not exhaustive. I brought them up to counter your point that only guys making $25 million+ can do more than hit an open 3 and guard at a decent level. Not sure how that isn’t a response to your comment

Joe was absolutely targeted and exposed defensively last year.

You brought up two guys who signed cheap deals and then blew while already on the deal. The point being those guys are going to make bigger money when they are on the open FA market again.

Your reductive argument at the end doesn’t reflect my point either. My point is that Ochai hasn’t shown evidence that he’s more than a 3/4th string guard and there are far better players at his position around the league who are making less than 20 million annually and can do more than 1.5 things well in the NBA.

Agbjai has definitely shown he can be a backup SG, and possibly a starter in specific circumstances as a 5th option who just defends and shoots 3's. No different than a guy like Okoro has been for years.

More off the top of my head include Ty Jerome, NAW and Strus.

3 guys who all play 1 end of the floor, or make $15M like NAW. . You seem to not even be following what I am trying to say


The entire problem with our conversation here is you are making arguments against things I am not even saying.

[YogurtProducer]

PAT MCCAW

A guy who went -14 in the finals.. in 12 minutes of gametime

Proud Mccaw hater checking in....it's no surprise he was out of the league after his stint with Toronto

My opinion on Nurse started to change when he gave McCaw 6th man type minutes while he clearly didn’t belong in the NBA lol.

In Nurses defence, that 2020 team had a massive dropoff after the 8th or so guy. If it was no McCaw playing when injuries happened, it was gonna be Hollis-Jefferson, or Malcolm Miller, or Matt thomas

[Turbo_Zone]

[manjusaka]

I hoop RJ has 80%+ FT tonight ….

[Boogie!]

Respect Mccaw who hit a 3 in game 1 of the 2019 finals

PAT MCCAW

A guy who went -14 in the finals.. in 12 minutes of gametime

Proud Mccaw hater checking in....it's no surprise he was out of the league after his stint with Toronto

I still can’t believe this man was taking minutes away from Norman Powell.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

You brought up two guys who signed cheap deals and then blew while already on the deal. The point being those guys are going to make bigger money when they are on the open FA market again.

Don't think they were playing much different from what they were producing prior to them signing with their teams. Ty Jerome came off almost winning 6th man and signed for less than 10M and is was way more productive than Ochai lol.

Agbjai has definitely shown he can be a backup SG, and possibly a starter in specific circumstances as a 5th option who just defends and shoots 3's. No different than a guy like Okoro has been for years.

Maybe on a bad Raptors team that wasn't even in the play-in race. Which current good teams do you see Ochai clearly having a consistent role and minutes on? He's already out of the rotation on the Raptors lol

3 guys who all play 1 end of the floor, or make $15M like NAW. . You seem to not even be following what I am trying to say

I don't think this is actually true. Ochai himself wasn't some all NBA defender and looking up opponents points per 100 possessions of the guys I mentioned when they are in the same ball park with Ochai lol

2024/25
Ochai Abaji: 113.6 DRTG
Ty Jerome: 111.9 DRTG
Max Strus: 113.3 DRTG
Isaiah Joe: 110.3 DRTG
Aaron Wiggins: 107.8 DRTG
NAW: 110 DRTG
Donte Divincenzo 119.7 DRTG* (worse than I thought)

He's not that good of a defender and worse offensively than everyone I listed above.

The entire problem with our conversation here is you are making arguments against things I am not even saying.

My whole point is that he's a mediocre NBA player and hasn't actually shown he should be a staple in the rotation.

My first post pointed out just from watching him (before I really dug into the #s after you replied to me) he looked like a limited offensive player who wasn't as good of a shooter as the numbers suggested and he would be the type of player to be exposed in playoff play because of his limitations. You argued that players producing more than him would require far larger salaries to keep which I have shown is not true given I have mentioned guys on bench player contracts.

Then you tried to argue that the guys I listed don't count because unlike Ochai apparently, they don't play defense (even though last year Ochai had the second worst DRTG per 100 possessions among all players mentioned above) which we now know isn't actually all that true either.

What points haven't I addressed so we can progress the conversation?

[LoveMyRaps]

Damn, ultra-rare TZ popup!

[right between the eyes]

I was like wow this thread is longer than normal for this season but then I realized it's only because two posters are having a debate lol

[YogurtProducer]

Don't think they were playing much different from what they were producing prior to them signing with their teams. Ty Jerome came off almost winning 6th man and signed for less than 10M and is was way more productive than Ochai lol.

To be fair, last off-season was also a very specific off-season in which teams had no money at all. That is not going to be the norm. EVERYONE got squeezed this summer which the new cap and stuff coming in.

And FWIW - Jerome is a dime a dozen no defence guard. There is a reason why a guy who puts up 23/5/6 per 36 on elite efficiency only played 19mpg last year, and his team let him go without re-signing him. It's because he is a defensive liability and teams dont like those (And why funnily enough, Okoro was playing more for CLE than Jerome by the end of the Pacers series).

Maybe on a bad Raptors team that wasn't even in the play-in race. Which current good teams do you see Ochai clearly having a consistent role and minutes on? He's already out of the rotation on the Raptors lol

Or on a 50 and 60 win CLE team like Okoro did. All teams need role players who play a role, including the good ones.

Teams like Houston, Denver, LA Lakers, Knicks, Spurs etc. all would be playing Agbaji. In fact, the only one I am not sure he would be is OKC who is the deepest team in basketball. Most teams don't have 4+ SG's on their roster who they can play.

And that is just the top third of the league. He is guaranteed to play on pretty much every non top-10 team.

I don't think this is actually true. Ochai himself wasn't some all NBA defender and looking up opponents points per 100 possessions of the guys I mentioned when they are in the same ball park with Ochai lol

DRTG is a horrible and meaningless stat lol Also, being worse than those guys =/= Ochai is bad or anything. You listed starters (Donte, Strus), 6MOTY candiates (Jerome, NAW), and dudes on the deepest team in the league (Joe, Wiggins). Lets just say he IS worse than those 6, that doesn't mean he sucks

I think you think I am saying Ochai is like an amazing player. He isn't. But he certainly should be playing every night even in a 8th/9th man role.