Just for fun: What do you do to go all in on this team?

[nomorezorro]

i am fairly confident if you have a good passing/screen-setting big, he can still thrive in this offense without being a 3pt shooter (which is why signing hartenstein in free agency is still basically my realistic best-case scenario. dude already operates a bunch on the perimeter, so i don't think you have to worry about someone like him clogging the paint or killing the cutting game)

i'm a little shakier on the smoothness of plugging in a guy who's just a rim-runner/play-finisher with no real shooting or passing skills, but i don't think it'd be impossible to integrate, and given the potential defensive benefits i'd definitely be interested in taking that risk if the right player presented himself

[Senor Chang]

I'm just looking around, and there's a very short list of starting centers with defensive value who can hit the three.

- Bam (FA - 2029)
- Jackson Jr. (FA - 2030)
- Porzingis (FA - 2026)
- Turner (FA - 2029)

Even then, Jackson and Porzingis are more PF in game.

Porzingis is the only one who is realistic in the immediate future, but I wouldn't want a defense where he's the anchor. Health is also an issue. There's really no perfect or exciting option with the names above. Bam may be closer to untouchable in Miami. Turner is overrated at times.

My guess is either:

1. They have to draft that player.
2. Make an offense work with a rim runner at C.
3. Split minutes between a floor spacer and a defensive center.

AK was very high on Beringer and he would have been the pick if Noa was gone supposedly.

Beringer has no offensive talent outside of lobs and offensive rebounds. We’ve never seen Giddey with a lob threat 5. Buz is a high flier and Noa will be too.

I like the idea of getting both a 3pt floor spacer with skills like Vuc and a defensive rim runner like Beringer.

Draft - Offensice - Cenac Ngongba Defensive - Q

FA - Offensive Hart

Trade - Beringer

I think we resign Vuc and pay up for Coby and Ayo. I bet we draft a big like Ngongba to take over for Vuc. I think our frontline D will come from Buz and Noa not necessarily our C.

I liked danny wolf in the draft and maybe we can acquire him from the nets. You pair him with a derrick lively type and your set.


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[coldfish]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/282682/Rival-Teams-Watching-Jaren-Jackson-Jr-Availability-If-Grizzlies-Rebuild

Looking at JJJ's contract again, on the one hand, good fit (assuming the start to this season is an aberration), but the contract is negative enough that I wouldn't give up anything in terms of picks to get him.

I ran some scenarios on what the roster would look like with extensions and such. It really depends on Coby's contract. If he stays and gets $40m+ than it makes it hard to put a top level team together under the $200m lux tax barrier with JJJ taking up 25% of it.

If Coby gets $30m per year or so then the team will have a ton of good contracts and can absorb JJJ.

Regardless, all around centers are rare and super well paid. If the Bulls can't afford $50m then they basically can't go out and get a good center. They will have to draft and develop one or just have a multi headed monster with weaknesses.

[dougthonus]

I ran some scenarios on what the roster would look like with extensions and such. It really depends on Coby's contract. If he stays and gets $40m+ than it makes it hard to put a top level team together under the $200m lux tax barrier with JJJ taking up 25% of it.

If Coby gets $30m per year or so then the team will have a ton of good contracts and can absorb JJJ.

Regardless, all around centers are rare and super well paid. If the Bulls can't afford $50m then they basically can't go out and get a good center. They will have to draft and develop one or just have a multi headed monster with weaknesses.

I think I just live with center as a weakness. Like the gap between JJJ and Zach Collins is not worth 35M to me. I think the reality is you need a ton of wings and guards, and I'd aim to just have lots of depth there.

I also wouldn't pay Coby White 40M regardless of what he does. He's no where near as good as Zach and Zach was an albatross at that price. I think even 30M is too much for me on Coby.

[Chi town]

I ran some scenarios on what the roster would look like with extensions and such. It really depends on Coby's contract. If he stays and gets $40m+ than it makes it hard to put a top level team together under the $200m lux tax barrier with JJJ taking up 25% of it.

If Coby gets $30m per year or so then the team will have a ton of good contracts and can absorb JJJ.

Regardless, all around centers are rare and super well paid. If the Bulls can't afford $50m then they basically can't go out and get a good center. They will have to draft and develop one or just have a multi headed monster with weaknesses.

I think I just live with center as a weakness. Like the gap between JJJ and Zach Collins is not worth 35M to me. I think the reality is you need a ton of wings and guards, and I'd aim to just have lots of depth there.

I also wouldn't pay Coby White 40M regardless of what he does. He's no where near as good as Zach and Zach was an albatross at that price. I think even 30M is too much for me on Coby.

30M is my ceiling solely due to Giddey and Tre’s contracts.

I think we get him for 25 due to lower usage with better depth and Guddey growing and due to the league not valuing SG like Coby nearly as much as they have.

[Senor Chang]

I'm just looking around, and there's a very short list of starting centers with defensive value who can hit the three.

- Bam (FA - 2029)
- Jackson Jr. (FA - 2030)
- Porzingis (FA - 2026)
- Turner (FA - 2029)

Even then, Jackson and Porzingis are more PF in game.

Porzingis is the only one who is realistic in the immediate future, but I wouldn't want a defense where he's the anchor. Health is also an issue. There's really no perfect or exciting option with the names above. Bam may be closer to untouchable in Miami. Turner is overrated at times.

My guess is either:

1. They have to draft that player.
2. Make an offense work with a rim runner at C.
3. Split minutes between a floor spacer and a defensive center.

Trade - Beringer

I think we resign Vuc and pay up for Coby and Ayo. I bet we draft a big like Ngongba to take over for Vuc. I think our frontline D will come from Buz and Noa not necessarily our C.

What do you think it takes to get beringer on the bulls?


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[nomorezorro]

on the most recent bill simmons podcast he was talking about coby as a potential trade target for minnesota, and he threw out divincenzo + dillingham as a package, which obviously does not make any sense for us. but beringer as a target makes them a lot more plausible as a trade partner to me

i do think they'd have interest in any one of our guards who can take some of the ballhandling responsibility off ant's plate. still not really sure if you can make something line up there, but it could be an option if you wanna be more focused on the long game than on taking a major step now.

[sco]

I ran some scenarios on what the roster would look like with extensions and such. It really depends on Coby's contract. If he stays and gets $40m+ than it makes it hard to put a top level team together under the $200m lux tax barrier with JJJ taking up 25% of it.

If Coby gets $30m per year or so then the team will have a ton of good contracts and can absorb JJJ.

Regardless, all around centers are rare and super well paid. If the Bulls can't afford $50m then they basically can't go out and get a good center. They will have to draft and develop one or just have a multi headed monster with weaknesses.

I think I just live with center as a weakness. Like the gap between JJJ and Zach Collins is not worth 35M to me. I think the reality is you need a ton of wings and guards, and I'd aim to just have lots of depth there.

I also wouldn't pay Coby White 40M regardless of what he does. He's no where near as good as Zach and Zach was an albatross at that price. I think even 30M is too much for me on Coby.

Yeah, I wanted to roll with Zach/Smith this year (and be rid of Vuc) to just see what works and what doesn't in terms of our 3 core guys and how much you can augment their collective defensive challenges.

[MikeDC]

I started thinking about how I trust Bam Adebayo so much more than JJJ. And how Herro and Coby are similar players, but Herro is signed for $30M+ and the Heat don't want to extend him. But like having him.

In theory, I wonder what the valuations of a Coby for Herro swap are? Herro might be a slightly better regarded player, but I don't know. I think they're about equal, but Coby's seemed generally more durable while Herro is bordering on injury prone. Herro makes $33M for 25-26.

I think if I were the Heat, I'd imagine that if I swapped Coby and Herro, the worst case is I'd be paying Coby the same as Herro for 25-26. The more likely case is I might be paying him like $25M. So I'd save $8M/yr and maybe have a slightly more robust player.

That is, I'd willingly trade Herro for Coby straight up if I were the Heat.

How much in addition to that would it take to get Bam? Probably quite a lot. Noa + 3 draft picks?

Bulls trade Coby, Noa, Picks, Collins, Huerter, Carter
Bulls get Bam, Herro

Vuc Smith
Bam, Pat
Matas
Herro, Ayo
Giddey, Jones

Is that a contender?

[Chi town]

on the most recent bill simmons podcast he was talking about coby as a potential trade target for minnesota, and he threw out divincenzo + dillingham as a package, which obviously does not make any sense for us. but beringer as a target makes them a lot more plausible as a trade partner to me

i do think they'd have interest in any one of our guards who can take some of the ballhandling responsibility off ant's plate. still not really sure if you can make something line up there, but it could be an option if you wanna be more focused on the long game than on taking a major step now.

The obvious trade is Ayo for Beringer and TSJ.

I think Ayo will def be worth that. That’s the same reason I want to keep him. He’s becoming clutch and fits us perfectly.

Also think Beringer probably would not get many mins for us now that we are winning. Maybe he’d play over Smith.

[MrSparkle]

Just for reference sake though, here are some "go all in" moves of the last few years:

ATL: Murray (huge overpay)
MIN: Gobert (huge overpay)
CLE: Mitchell (mixed results due to playoff blunders, Lauri's ascent throws a curveball, but Mitchell was definitely worth that FRP chest)
NOP: Murray (huge overpay)
PHX: Durant (huge overpay considering they gave up tons of picks/swaps on top of 2 young bargain 3D finals starters)
HOU: Durant (fair pay IMO)
NYK: Mikal (overpay)
IND: Siakam (fair, pretty successful trade minus Haliburton's injury preventing them from winning a chip)
NYK: KAT (fair, if not a bargain)
SAS: Fox (fair if he comes back and plays well, especially since Harper got injured, but this probably ends up being a slight overpay... Spurs really didn't give up much, though)
GSW: Butler (fair)
ORL: Bane (huge overpay)

So you look at all teams burned... I think Minnesota's Gobert trade kind of killed a lot of their options and ultimately made them sell KAT for a dollar, but OTOH they've been to the WCFs and will continue to contend. Kind of a toss-up between the success of each trade. We're early in the season: the Bane move could pan out well once Orlando finds its chemistry; they will have a lot of firepower and defensive size. Could very well get the last laugh in April, especially as an underdog.

I think when picking up a max player, you just have to be very honest about their fit, their impact and their age when you're giving up the 4 FRP package with sweets.

I'd say any MVP even in their late prime is probably worth the risk, if you have the remaining pieces. That's where Phoenix screwed the pooch with the Nets/Durant trade. But yeah... for me, this list is probably only 6 guys (Shai, Luka, Jokic, Giannis, Wemby, Edwards). I'd literally trade almost everything for them, even if it meant nuking the roster. Strategically, just need to keep the right guys.

Any less than that, and is any fringe star worth paying a steep trade price? Siakam/KAT seem like the best deals... and then given their age/risk, Durant and Jimmy were still solid gambles albeit with very short windows, on stacked teams. So if you can find a Siakam or KAT for as cheaply as they were sold, it's a safe move... Even though, they don't guarantee anything other than a strong run. The success still largely came from Edwards, Brunson, and depth pieces.

I wouldn't do 4+ FRPs and good players for JJJ. It'd have to be more like filler contracts and 2 Bulls FRPs and the Blazers' pick. Gets tricky because you want to shed PWill in that deal, but his contract sinks the offer. So of course you offer expirings like Collings and Huerter, throw in Phillips or maybe tilt the deal with Noa, but then you have yourself an expensive, locked roster that will be deemed a failure if it doesn't atleast reach the ECFs. Then your criteria moves up: are Giddey and Coby on atleast Brunson or Haliburton's levels, or what? Let alone Shai and Luka: of course not.

I do think the Bulls' cupboard is still low, due to striking out (Terry, Pat) and losing 2 to ORL... They shouldn't trade any of their future picks unless it's blatant theft. Need more assets, especially if you plan on never moving Matas… and Noa will be a mystery until he graduates to the NBA.

[HomoSapien]

Tonight's game against the Bucks revealed a big hole for this team. We have no one that can matchup against Giannis. I mean, no team really does but we really don't. Our best defender against him was... Vuc? If we're looking like a real playoff team, then there's a good chance we'll have to go through the Bucks. I don't think we'd be able to beat them in a series because their bigs are too versatile and, well big. We'll need more size and defense up front.

I'll bring up Siakam again, who I think could make us darkhorse finals team in a weak East. I think the cleanest offer is Ayo, Collins, and Pat for him. It's tough losing Ayo, but we have a ton of guards who can play and he's a luxury. I think you can include the Blazers pick if need be, but Ayo should appeal to them as a potential long-term piece to pair with Hali.

[HomoSapien]

From Wiretap:

The New Orleans Pelicans have managed to win their last couple of games after starting the season 0-6. Some wonder if it's a coincidence that the Pelicans have won twice with Zion Williamson out of the lineup. That has many suggesting it could be time for New Orleans to move on from Williamson, who is currently out with a hamstring strain.

However, Williamson's trade value isn't considered to be very high. That's the case even with Williamsons' contract featuring mostly non-guaranteed salary for the next two seasons.

"To be honest, their move might be a win-now trade, not a Zion trade," a rival executive said. "His trade value isn't there and they are facing some pressure to win."

Just a friendly reminder that Troy Weaver really badly wanted to draft Patrick Williams. You pair Pat with Coby or Ayo and you might have a starting framework for a trade.

[Dan Z]

Tonight's game against the Bucks revealed a big hole for this team. We have no one that can matchup against Giannis. I mean, no team really does but we really don't. Our best defender against him was... Vuc? If we're looking like a real playoff team, then there's a good chance we'll have to go through the Bucks. I don't think we'd be able to beat them in a series because their bigs are too versatile and, well big. We'll need more size and defense up front.

I'll bring up Siakam again, who I think could make us darkhorse finals team in a weak East. I think the cleanest offer is Ayo, Collins, and Pat for him. It's tough losing Ayo, but we have a ton of guards who can play and he's a luxury. I think you can include the Blazers pick if need be, but Ayo should appeal to them as a potential long-term piece to pair with Hali.

I don't know why Indiana would do that trade. Pascal was an all-star last year and the Pacers most consistent player in the playoffs.

[HomoSapien]

Tonight's game against the Bucks revealed a big hole for this team. We have no one that can matchup against Giannis. I mean, no team really does but we really don't. Our best defender against him was... Vuc? If we're looking like a real playoff team, then there's a good chance we'll have to go through the Bucks. I don't think we'd be able to beat them in a series because their bigs are too versatile and, well big. We'll need more size and defense up front.

I'll bring up Siakam again, who I think could make us darkhorse finals team in a weak East. I think the cleanest offer is Ayo, Collins, and Pat for him. It's tough losing Ayo, but we have a ton of guards who can play and he's a luxury. I think you can include the Blazers pick if need be, but Ayo should appeal to them as a potential long-term piece to pair with Hali.

I don't know why Indiana would do that trade. Pascal was an all-star last year and the Pacers most consistent player in the playoffs.

Because he'll be 32-33 by the time Hali comes back and they have too much ground to make up with the loss of Turner. The writing is on the wall for that team.

[Chi town]

Just for reference sake though, here are some "go all in" moves of the last few years:

ATL: Murray (huge overpay)
MIN: Gobert (huge overpay)
CLE: Mitchell (mixed results due to playoff blunders, Lauri's ascent throws a curveball, but Mitchell was definitely worth that FRP chest)
NOP: Murray (huge overpay)
PHX: Durant (huge overpay considering they gave up tons of picks/swaps on top of 2 young bargain 3D finals starters)
HOU: Durant (fair pay IMO)
NYK: Mikal (overpay)
IND: Siakam (fair, pretty successful trade minus Haliburton's injury preventing them from winning a chip)
NYK: KAT (fair, if not a bargain)
SAS: Fox (fair if he comes back and plays well, especially since Harper got injured, but this probably ends up being a slight overpay... Spurs really didn't give up much, though)
GSW: Butler (fair)
ORL: Bane (huge overpay)

So you look at all teams burned... I think Minnesota's Gobert trade kind of killed a lot of their options and ultimately made them sell KAT for a dollar, but OTOH they've been to the WCFs and will continue to contend. Kind of a toss-up between the success of each trade. We're early in the season: the Bane move could pan out well once Orlando finds its chemistry; they will have a lot of firepower and defensive size. Could very well get the last laugh in April, especially as an underdog.

I think when picking up a max player, you just have to be very honest about their fit, their impact and their age when you're giving up the 4 FRP package with sweets.

I'd say any MVP even in their late prime is probably worth the risk, if you have the remaining pieces. That's where Phoenix screwed the pooch with the Nets/Durant trade. But yeah... for me, this list is probably only 6 guys (Shai, Luka, Jokic, Giannis, Wemby, Edwards). I'd literally trade almost everything for them, even if it meant nuking the roster. Strategically, just need to keep the right guys.

Any less than that, and is any fringe star worth paying a steep trade price? Siakam/KAT seem like the best deals... and then given their age/risk, Durant and Jimmy were still solid gambles albeit with very short windows, on stacked teams. So if you can find a Siakam or KAT for as cheaply as they were sold, it's a safe move... Even though, they don't guarantee anything other than a strong run. The success still largely came from Edwards, Brunson, and depth pieces.

I wouldn't do 4+ FRPs and good players for JJJ. It'd have to be more like filler contracts and 2 Bulls FRPs and the Blazers' pick. Gets tricky because you want to shed PWill in that deal, but his contract sinks the offer. So of course you offer expirings like Collings and Huerter, throw in Phillips or maybe tilt the deal with Noa, but then you have yourself an expensive, locked roster that will be deemed a failure if it doesn't atleast reach the ECFs. Then your criteria moves up: are Giddey and Coby on atleast Brunson or Haliburton's levels, or what? Let alone Shai and Luka: of course not.

I do think the Bulls' cupboard is still low, due to striking out (Terry, Pat) and losing 2 to ORL... They shouldn't trade any of their future picks unless it's blatant theft. Need more assets, especially if you plan on never moving Matas… and Noa will be a mystery until he graduates to the NBA.

Great post.

AK has certainly stacked good moves but I def don’t trust him getting the most important final piece move.

One bad move like Bane for ORL can crush the whole build.

[Red Larrivee]

Siakam seems like too much of a contend today move. Not really a fan

[Infinity2152]

I started thinking about how I trust Bam Adebayo so much more than JJJ. And how Herro and Coby are similar players, but Herro is signed for $30M+ and the Heat don't want to extend him. But like having him.

In theory, I wonder what the valuations of a Coby for Herro swap are? Herro might be a slightly better regarded player, but I don't know. I think they're about equal, but Coby's seemed generally more durable while Herro is bordering on injury prone. Herro makes $33M for 25-26.

I think if I were the Heat, I'd imagine that if I swapped Coby and Herro, the worst case is I'd be paying Coby the same as Herro for 25-26. The more likely case is I might be paying him like $25M. So I'd save $8M/yr and maybe have a slightly more robust player.

That is, I'd willingly trade Herro for Coby straight up if I were the Heat.

How much in addition to that would it take to get Bam? Probably quite a lot. Noa + 3 draft picks?

Bulls trade Coby, Noa, Picks, Collins, Huerter, Carter
Bulls get Bam, Herro

Vuc Smith
Bam, Pat
Matas
Herro, Ayo
Giddey, Jones

Is that a contender?

Bro, I've been screaming for a Bam trade! I love Giddey and believe he's going to be consistently great. To me, Bam's the best two-way center in the league, and when factoring in durabilty it's not even close. Perfect fit with Giddey to supplement his strengths and weaknesses, athletic, great mentor for young team, winning habits, just damn near perfect. He's only 28, so he could be here for 8 years. Not a shot blocker, but great all-around defender, and can run and shoot.

I'd give up 3 protected 1sts and Noa to add Bam to this team right now. With Giddey and Matas, plus Jones, Ayo, Smith, Pat on the roster, having either Coby or Herro is not game changing. We'd still have some cap space too. Any deal for Bam that doesn't involve Giddey and Matas sets us up to be good-great for the next 5 years based on what's on the team now. Extend Vuc as backup center next summer, #1 seed in the East.

[Chi town]

On way Heat trade Bam unless it’s a crazy overpay. Bam is a Haslem Heat Lifer. Hes embodies their culture.

Def not feeling 55M per at his age of 29 in June and all the assets.

[Infinity2152]

What good is money without a winning team? If Bam makes us a legit contender, the money matters WAY less. Chicago should be happy to spend on a winning team. Our biggest current contract is Giddy, legit contenders have no problems paying 28-year-olds max to be second or third options. He's 28 now, June's a long way away. Is his contract even max? $55 mill doesn't sound crazy next year, how much are Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum making?

We really talking about paying a 28-year-old max at a prime position like most good players over 30 aren't still getting max contracts? And are you saying Bam is absolutely untradeable for the Heat? Has that EVER been how the Heat operate? Bam's contract jumps next year, it's much more common for the Heat to trade vets for young players and picks than to pay them. Especially if they already have a great young replacement they could slot in at starter.

There's this guy named Dwayne Wade that was Heat culture for life too. They wouldn't pay him. Jimmy was the guy on the Heat. They wouldn't pay him. But Bam is bigger/more important? Plan to run him and Kel'el Ware as two bigs the next few years, rather than getting picks and cap space?