jakobe & Dick were bad picks

[TimeForChange]

I actually don’t mind Dick’s role this year and think he has looked better.

JaKobe was a bad pick. Said it on page one of the draft thread right after he was picked. Terrible fit for this team.

[everdiso]

if either can make their 3pt shot money they have a chance to be useful rotation guys. starting upside seems a longshot though.

Ja'kobe just seems to prfer shooting off-balance shots which is a recipe for disaster. I think i like Gradey's chances of being a microwave off the bench.

[Indeed]

Based on his performance in his 1st two years, I think it's doubtful we could have gotten anything of value for Dick. It's likely every opposing scouting team had him pegged as a defensive liability.

Dick kind of made sense at the time on the surface. He was projected to go a little higher and we were a forward heavy team that was desperate for shooting. I guess the scouting team looked over some red flags like defense, narrow shoulders, lack of girth, and a non-textbook shooting form that may affect his consistency and range. That being said, I wouldn't rule out him continuing to mature until year 5, where he carves out a more reliable 15 min role off the bench.

Ja'Kobe seemed like a more questionable pick to me considering he did nothing exceptionally well, was inconsistent/inefficient, and was a 2-guard without much burst/slashing ability. He didn't fit a need on our team either. I wouldn't rule out an eventual bench role though.

I see it the other way around.

Most of our successful picks were based on physical attributes, and Dick is not. We are more drafting for needs and Dick dropped to us (there is clearly a reason he was dropped). I think it was pretty clear it was a bad pick drafting a one dimensional player (I like Goerge better). His jersey is definitely something the team doesn't mind, I suppose.

As for Walter, he is more well rounded, and we go back to draft someone with better physical attributes. Usually these type of players don't have good shooting, while Walter at least showed some shooting. After him in a weak draft, there isn't really good candidate, even Mogbo wouldn't be a high 2nd round in a better draft.

Well I agree that Dick was drafted due to need

Walter was perceived BPA because he was projected to go top 10-15 in mocks. He doesn't scream great physical attributes either, maybe just average. Lack of explosiveness and speed for a 2 guard really limits his ceiling and he was an inefficient shooter in college.

Filips was also projected to go top 10-15. Other options around that range was basically DaRon Holmes II, Yves Missi. The rest were generally mocked lower. So theoretically, it should have been between Ja'Kobe, Flip, Daron, Missi. I personally would have taken the Mormon and then traded him to Utah after a good 1st year.

In terms of Mogbo in the 2nd round, any 2nd round pick working out in any draft is always a win. In the previous year, you had Kobe Brown at 30 and James Nnaji at 31. So not completely out of the question that Mogbo could be drafted in the high 2nd round in other drafts. I mean...we drafted Caboclo 20th...the dude was a Chomche level prospect.

Not to mention, the 2024 2nd round already seems better than the 2023 2nd round to me. Why is the 2024 draft weak at pick 19+, but not 2023?

Filipowski was dropped due to violation, he was invited to the green room.
As for Holmes and Missi, those are unlikely a fit to our roster. We have no quick PG that provides rim pressure with a screen, and neither of these works with Barnes. There is just no good one in the 2024 draft.

As for the comparison of 2023 and 2024, because 2024 has more 5th year graduates, so teams may opt for drafting with safe picks. Someone like Leonard Miller in the 2023 draft was special, they are higher risk and younger vs Mogbo who is a senior.

[anotherhomer]

that said, i think we have to start playing Battle regularly ahead of Jakobe and Ochai....

he's playing solid team defense and spacing the floor, really critical there

Don't know what's going on with Ochai but hope he puts it together

Dick isn't the worst...ocassionally gives us a few points off the bench

[vado]

Too early to fully judge them

[kalel123]

I actually don’t mind Dick’s role this year and think he has looked better.

JaKobe was a bad pick. Said it on page one of the draft thread right after he was picked. Terrible fit for this team.

Idea of Dick is still sound. I mean, if he can make his shot to the degree that they thought he could, he has a place on this team or any team. His D doesn't look so bad and other things that he does well will stand out more.

On the other hand, I don't know what Walter is supposed to bring to this team. There's not a single thing he does particularly well, our need was our need, and a guy like Yves Missi would've been a much better pick because we could at least find minutes for the guy.

[RoteSchroder]

Jakobe was a 19th pick in a historically weak draft. We should be happy if he turns into a reliable bench player.

it was only weak at the top, role player depth wasn't too bad

Not true, even Mogbo wouldn't be in the top 2nd in most draft. It is weak even role player depth was pretty bad.

2024 2nd round
Jonathan Mogbo
Kyle Filipowski
Ajay Mitchell
Quinten Post
Jamal Shead
Jaylen Wells
Oso Ighodaro
Adem Bona
Cam Christie
Cam Spencer

vs

2023 2nd round
Toumani Camara
GG Jackson
Jalen Pickett
Colby Jones
Andre Jackson Jr.
Jaylen Clark
Mouhamed Gueye
Tristan Vukčević

It seems 2023 has the best player thus far (Toumani Camara EDIT: whoa, didn't know Ajay Mitchell was averaging 16.7 PPG thus far). 2024 is deeper with more usable role players. In fact..it seems Toumani Camara might be the only one with a consistent role? correct me if I'm wrong, I don't really follow scrubs.

[PhilBlackson]

“Bad picks” is a bit too far.

There were better picks (personally I liked Keyonte & Kyshawn George is respective drafts and both look substantially better this season than the guys we took) BUT both of these guys look like rotation players.

I really don’t complain about JaKobe because he actually fell to our pick (was expected to go earlier) and in what was supposed to be a relatively weak draft. It’s also just his second year and he’s BARELY gotten any playing time and he’s usually getting in deeper into the game with no rhythm. Now ofc it’s on him to be ready but we’re barely even starting the season, I think he’ll get going with his defence which we can count on and in time the shot will start dropping too. I never loved the Gradey pick because I just don’t believe in his defence but nonetheless he’s not a complete bust which is what would be how I quantify a “bad pick”. He still adds some scoring to the rotation. He’s not the “Klay Thompson” or “Ray Allen” some unbelievable glazers dreamt of lol but a rotation player isn’t a bust or really a bad pick, just not the best one/there were better picks that could’ve/should’ve been made. But it’s not like we picked two Brunos lol so it’s not that bad.

[RoteSchroder]

Filipowski was dropped due to violation, he was invited to the green room.
As for Holmes and Missi, those are unlikely a fit to our roster. We have no quick PG that provides rim pressure with a screen, and neither of these works with Barnes.

Sounds a lot like major sour grapes.

A back-up defensive C has been our biggest need for quite a while. A good PG is secondary to that.

Filip dropped due to his weird Mormon GF situation. It takes a good management with balls and maneuvering capabilities to take him.

There is just no good one in the 2024 draft.

2nd round pick Ajay Mitchell is averaging 16.7 PPG so far..I didn't know about him before the draft, but some users were vying for him.

As for the comparison of 2023 and 2024, because 2024 has more 5th year graduates, so teams may opt for drafting with safe picks. Someone like Leonard Miller in the 2023 draft was special, they are higher risk and younger vs Mogbo who is a senior.

Being a senior doesn't make it a bad pick and doesn't mean they shouldn't be drafted higher. Nor does it mean that the 2024 draft didn't have depth. In fact, it seems that drafting established older rookies in the 2nd round may lead to more success (e.g. Norman Powell, Jaylen Wells, Kalkbrenner)

Your argument is that 2024 was a weak draft even in later rounds. Yet 2024 could possibly have the best 2nd round depth in the last 5 years. Rank these drafts:

2024 2nd round
Jonathan Mogbo
Kyle Filipowski
Ajay Mitchell (entered league at 22)
Quinten Post
Jamal Shead
Jaylen Wells
Oso Ighodaro
Adem Bona
Cam Christie
Cam Spencer


2023 2nd round
Toumani Camara (entered league at 23)
GG Jackson
Jalen Pickett
Colby Jones
Andre Jackson Jr.
Jaylen Clark
Mouhamed Gueye
Tristan Vukčević

2022 2nd round
Andrew Nembhard (entered league at 23)
Caleb Houstan
Vince Williams Jr.
Jaylin Williams
Max Christie
Jaden Hardy

2021 2nd round
Herbert Jones (entered league at 23)
Miles McBride
Dalano Banton
Luka Garza
Aaron Wiggins
Jericho Sims

2020 2nd round
Nick Richards
Isaiah Joe
Paul Reed
Sam Merrill

[everdiso]

huh Dick us up to 61ts%. If he can do that then he's a good weapon.

[anotherhomer]

Another guy we missed was Cedric coward....ya I get we had a backlog of guards but Cedric is playing great

[HangTime]

I think Ja'Kobe is just getting used to his added weight.

I have no worries with him.

[Reeko]

When Gradey makes his first All Star team in 2 or 3 seasons will he still be a bad pick? We're lucky that we've got him in a bench role for the next couple of seasons because we're going to have an All Star level player on a really good value contract for the first half of his prime. His defense is improving and he's got the offensive skills to pay the bills.

As for Ja'Kobe, well hopefully he can settle into a nice little 3 and D role for us off the bench. I see starter upside for him but he's got to become a reliable 3pt shooter.

[Thaddy]

I don't like Gradey that much but he has obvious scoring potential. If he can grow leaps and bounds like DeRozan did he'll be really good.

As far as I can see. He stuffs the stat sheet. He's getting to the FT line and nailing his 3s. He's had a few games where he rips teams apart in garbage time and basically has a point per a minute.

We should keep him on a short leesh and let him cook against weaker teams. He should be good against Philly. We need someone who can space the floor reliably.

Walter is too young to judge. I'd give him another year. I want to see him be a solid POA defender who can hit spot up 3s. If he can read a defense and attack occasionally and finish that'd be great. He needs to simplify what he's doing and build on that next year.

[Slade3]

You can’t hit on everything. The issue I have isn’t so much that the picks were bad as much as the inability to realize their mistake and get value out of dick especiallly. Could’ve leveraged him in a trade, maybe for another pick.

Based on his performance in his 1st two years, I think it's doubtful we could have gotten anything of value for Dick. It's likely every opposing scouting team had him pegged as a defensive liability.

Dick kind of made sense at the time on the surface. He was projected to go a little higher and we were a forward heavy team that was desperate for shooting. I guess the scouting team looked over some red flags like defense, narrow shoulders, lack of girth, and a non-textbook shooting form that may affect his consistency and range. That being said, I wouldn't rule out him continuing to mature until year 5, where he carves out a more reliable 15 min role off the bench.

Ja'Kobe seemed like a more questionable pick to me considering he did nothing exceptionally well, was inconsistent/inefficient, and was a 2-guard without much burst/slashing ability. He didn't fit a need on our team either. I wouldn't rule out an eventual bench role though.

It’s not the defense I have an issue with dick… in fact knowing that we actually drafted a shooter at a time we were all clamouring for shooters and knowing it was our weakness for years made me happy.

Seeing his college highlights how he was a catch and shoot guy and could shoot off screens made me excited. The reason difk frustrates me is that he hasn’t been that guy af the nba level. He has been an average shooter at best, and on top of that sucks at everything else and has all those weaknesses you mentioned. That being said all those things wouldn’t matter to me if he was at least klay Thompson from 3 offensively and he’s just okay which is not what I expected when we drafted him.

Dick is still just 21 years old. If he bulks up a bit and improves his shooting a bit more he's fine as a spark plug from the bench type of player.

[everdiso]

Dick

41.4 3pt% (7.3 per 36)
61.0 ts%

[Got Nuffin]

Still like the potential of Dick as a scorer. He is tall for his position and has some agility. I think he will be a very productive player down the line if we're patient.

Not sure what people were expecting out of Walter? His outlook looks exactly as described pre-draft - a Caldwell-Pope shooter / defender type. He still looks like that although he obviously hasn't hit that ceiling (which wasn't that high in the first place). Unless he has some work ethic issues, his floor looks like some kind of Terrence Ross-like career.

I feel like both will be trade bait (along with one non-rookie contract player) at some stage during the season.

[brownbobcat]

When Gradey makes his first All Star team in 2 or 3 seasons will he still be a bad pick? We're lucky that we've got him in a bench role for the next couple of seasons because we're going to have an All Star level player on a really good value contract for the first half of his prime. His defense is improving and he's got the offensive skills to pay the bills.

So he's sucking on purpose so Toronto can save money on his next contract? What a team player.

[ItsDanger]

The odds are in the OP's favour at this point in time.

[Clutch0z24]

If we drafted
(Never did that horrific Thad trade) And drafted
Kessler
George
Kyshawn George
Cedric Coward

-----
IQ
Barrett
Ingram
Barnes
Yak

George
Coward
Kyshawn
Sandro
Kessler

Shead
Ochai
Mogbo
Battle

We would have a pretty stacked young bench behind our starters....Like CMB but he seems a little redundant with Barnes here....Hindsight though.