Post-game: Raptors pull off an impressive comeback win

[YogurtProducer]

All Battle does is win his minutes, at some point he should be rewarded

At this point, Walter needs to go to the Gleauge.

I like the idea of him as a player and some of his toolseyness, but he just isn't contributing to winning.

Battle has earned this and will win us games

From a Win Shares perspective (which highly correlate to real wins), Ochai has been worse than Ja'Kobe heading into last game, and the worst player on the team so far in general. The only reason Ja'Kobe dipped below him was because he had a bad game yesterday, while Ochai didn't have the chance to have another bad game because he caught a DNP-CD.

As respectfully as I can possibly say this.. win shares is useless

[TeamDisgruntled]

I must say it was super enjoyable to watch yak, Scottie, Gradey and Rj all have good second halves after everyone was losing their minds about how bad they were in the first half.

[Jerry Lucas]

At this point, Walter needs to go to the Gleauge.

I like the idea of him as a player and some of his toolseyness, but he just isn't contributing to winning.

Battle has earned this and will win us games

From a Win Shares perspective (which highly correlate to real wins), Ochai has been worse than Ja'Kobe heading into last game, and the worst player on the team so far in general. The only reason Ja'Kobe dipped below him was because he had a bad game yesterday, while Ochai didn't have the chance to have another bad game because he caught a DNP-CD.

As respectfully as I can possibly say this.. win shares is useless

Explain why team WS totals have always correlated so closely with their real win totals then.

[everdiso]

From a Win Shares perspective (which highly correlate to real wins), Ochai has been worse than Ja'Kobe heading into last game, and the worst player on the team so far in general. The only reason Ja'Kobe dipped below him was because he had a bad game yesterday, while Ochai didn't have the chance to have another bad game because he caught a DNP-CD.

As respectfully as I can possibly say this.. win shares is useless

Explain why team WS totals have always correlated so closely with their real win totals then.

Because win shares are literally derived from the real win totals.

[YogurtProducer]

From a Win Shares perspective (which highly correlate to real wins), Ochai has been worse than Ja'Kobe heading into last game, and the worst player on the team so far in general. The only reason Ja'Kobe dipped below him was because he had a bad game yesterday, while Ochai didn't have the chance to have another bad game because he caught a DNP-CD.

As respectfully as I can possibly say this.. win shares is useless

Explain why team WS totals have always correlated so closely with their real win totals then.

Because the system is designed so that a team with 50 wins will have approximately 50 win shares.

It’s kind of fun to take a look at, but absolutely no analysis of it should be done as it doesn’t tell you anything. ESPECIALLY on the defensive side.

[Shakril]

East is completely wide open. Only teams I'd have as guaranteed top 6 teams are Cleveland and New York.

Bucks and Detroit also. I dont buy what the 76ers are showing.

No way the Bucks are guaranteed to be in the top 6 when it's so heavily reliant on one player.

Need to see more from the Pistons before thinking they're a top team. I'm still not really buying a roster that has Jaden Ivey and Tobias Harris as their 2nd and 3rd options.

When it comes to playoff locks in the east, Pistons are good enough. I agree with bucks, i rescind my opinion about them, but they will be in the mix.

[TheAlchemist23]

Only team in the east I'd say we matchup poorly with is CLE

Siakam used to give Allen and Mobley fits, ever since he left they've dominatied us, I'm interested to see how we fare against them with Ingram

[Jerry Lucas]

As respectfully as I can possibly say this.. win shares is useless

Explain why team WS totals have always correlated so closely with their real win totals then.

Because win shares are literally derived from the real win totals.

BRef's calculations aren't as simple as just being "derived from real win totals." It's more so derived from Bill James' original system with modifications so that 1 win doesn't equal 3 Win Shares (like James' system is for baseball).

You can take a look for yourself:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

BRef even outright criticizes how Bill James' original system was also "directly proportional" to the real win totals.

[Yallbecrazy]

Didn’t see that. He was a no show for 3 quarters, his plus/minus accurately shows that.

Thankfully the bench and Ingram kept us afloat until Scottie decided to show energy.

There are two sides of the court and Scottie was just fine defensively the whole game. Not perfect, but solid. People just look at Ingram's 20 points and don't consider his poor effeciency. He missed a bunch of open threes and his defense was meh.

So yeah, Scottie wasn't dominating out there, but when we needed a run in the 4th, he was the guy spearheading it. The 9-0 run that got us our first lead in the 4th happened when Ingram was on the bench. Darko surrounded SB with a bunch of shooters and opened everything up. Credit to Dick and IQ for making those threes.

Barnes was fine. Obviously not his best game but still led the team in rebounds and blocks. He was also the only starter without a turnover. We don't win that game without the 8/3/3 he put up in the 4th. In the 1st quarter he was very engaged and energized, and then was largely ineffective for stretches after that until the 4Q, along with most everyone else. He abandoned the 3ball once he realized it wasn't gong to drop for him, so that was good to see. Last night was the exact type of game that would have went off the rails for him last season, The growth is obvious, many are just choosing not to see it.

I said he was the best player because he was the one drawing double teams in the second half which allowed the ball to move around the perimeter leading to open looks. No one else was really doing that and the Hawks have some excellent defenders. The first half no one was beating their guy and the offense was stagnant, but in the 2nd we got the offense going and it was 80% Scottie forcing the help defense or double to come and then making the right pass. 0 turnovers, 10 rebounds, 3 stocks also show his effectiveness.

[DreamTeam09]

we are going to have to use our MLE to resign Mamu, meaning Ochai will be let go for next to nothing to clear some room under the tax. Mamu really makes this group tick, he's especially beneficial for Scottie as they have some absurd lineups #s together

[MiamiSPX]

I’m becoming a big sheadhead

He seems to always make an impact when he enters the game. Plays like a grizzled vet.

[DreamTeam09]

I’m becoming a big sheadhead

He seems to always make an impact when he enters the game. Plays like a grizzled vet.

it's the contrast between the two PGs, Shead comes in and gets paint touches right away, Quickly is lethal when his pull up 3s is working & Jakob is setting heavy screens. If they were to combine their abilities we would be golden, but as currently constructed, we got 2 above avg pgs5

[bluerap23]

I’m becoming a big sheadhead

He seems to always make an impact when he enters the game. Plays like a grizzled vet.

[Basketball_Jones]

Scottie had a couple of nice drive and kicks. I generally don’t see much of that from him outside of his Point Guard Scottie days and have been unsure lately if he even has the handle to pull it off. I like that action from him and hope to see more.

[Tor_Raps]

All Battle does is win his minutes, at some point he should be rewarded

At this point, Walter needs to go to the Gleauge.

I like the idea of him as a player and some of his toolseyness, but he just isn't contributing to winning.

Battle has earned this and will win us games

From a Win Shares perspective (which highly correlate to real wins), Ochai has been worse than Ja'Kobe heading into last game, and the worst player on the team so far in general. The only reason Ja'Kobe dipped below him was because he had a bad game yesterday, while Ochai didn't have the chance to have another bad game because he caught a DNP-CD.

Walter is in his 2nd year as a 21 year old where the G League makes perfect sense. Ochai is 25, entering a contract year, and has a much better body/game to be more impactful in the immediate short term. Ochai has really struggled with his shooting/offense to start the year but I think he'll pick it up to last years standards at least.

Anyways, Battle over both right now lol.

[deeps6x]

When I heard Zarba was the ref, I thought great, we'll get a fair shake tonight. But then throughout the whole game, it sure looked like the script was written for Atlanta to win the game. So many calls and non-calls seemed to be going in Atlanta's favour. If it was blatant, we'd get the call. If it was a 50/50 tic tak call, they'd get it every time. And so many non-calls that they scored off of right after. Uggh.
The funny part was we actually got two more foul shots then they did, but hold hell it sure seemed lopsided.

Well done Raptors, in overcoming the bias and getting the win.

[Tripod]

At this point, Walter needs to go to the Gleauge.

I like the idea of him as a player and some of his toolseyness, but he just isn't contributing to winning.

Battle has earned this and will win us games

From a Win Shares perspective (which highly correlate to real wins), Ochai has been worse than Ja'Kobe heading into last game, and the worst player on the team so far in general. The only reason Ja'Kobe dipped below him was because he had a bad game yesterday, while Ochai didn't have the chance to have another bad game because he caught a DNP-CD.

Walter is in his 2nd year as a 21 year old where the G League makes perfect sense. Ochai is 25, entering a contract year, and has a much better body/game to be more impactful in the immediate short term. Ochai has really struggled with his shooting/offense to start the year but I think he'll pick it up to last years standards at least.

Anyways, Battle over both right now lol.

Ochai will rebound...but not sure he gets to last year "at least".

But on the plus side, as things normalize, he should go on a heater at some point. He isn't going to keep shooting this poorly.

[everdiso]

Explain why team WS totals have always correlated so closely with their real win totals then.

Because win shares are literally derived from the real win totals.

BRef's calculations aren't as simple as just being "derived from real win totals." It's more so derived from Bill James' original system with modifications so that 1 win doesn't equal 3 Win Shares (like James' system).

You can take a look for yourself:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

BRef even outright criticizes how Bill James' original system was also "directly proportional" to the real win totals.

Yeah but 1 win equals 1 win share. That's why it correlates.

[canada_dry]

Are...are we good?

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Tor_Raps]

From a Win Shares perspective (which highly correlate to real wins), Ochai has been worse than Ja'Kobe heading into last game, and the worst player on the team so far in general. The only reason Ja'Kobe dipped below him was because he had a bad game yesterday, while Ochai didn't have the chance to have another bad game because he caught a DNP-CD.

Walter is in his 2nd year as a 21 year old where the G League makes perfect sense. Ochai is 25, entering a contract year, and has a much better body/game to be more impactful in the immediate short term. Ochai has really struggled with his shooting/offense to start the year but I think he'll pick it up to last years standards at least.

Anyways, Battle over both right now lol.

Ochai will rebound...but not sure he gets to last year "at least".

But on the plus side, as things normalize, he should go on a heater at some point. He isn't going to keep shooting this poorly.

Ya none of will truly know how Ochai will perform offensively going forward... his baseline of being a great defender and strong guard presence will always be there. I just have more faith in a guy who has a massive financial incentive for this season.